ISIS terror attacks around the world

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Post by Unique Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 16:19

VivaStPauli wrote:While I don't think there's too much fault with the "kill all terrorists" idea, besides logistics, your ideas on Islam are, well, wrong.

Christianity, when you read the right/wrong passages is just as violent and expansionist as Islam, yet there are far more peaceful Christian countries (yes I am aware there are very war-like Christian countries as well).

The trick is to get people to take their own religion less seriously. Praise Allah and all, but don't be too hard on women, or people eating pork. Christians eat meat on fridays all the time, and I very much doubt they ever burn in hell for it.
you just hit the nail on the head. The problem with Islam is its far to strict and its followers are far more fanatical about their religion than other religious people and that's why it's so easy to brain wash them into doing terrible things.

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Post by Adit Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 16:49

I dont get the escapism. There is something wrong with Islamic world and it is definitely related to religion.

Poverty and education is a reason but you cant ignore how easily those people gets attracted to extremist Islam. Do you see any other religious group causing havocs like Muslims in todays world ? all these religious groups have millions of poor and uneducated within themselves so blaming everything on poverty and education is not true.

Abrahamic religions are intolerant and undemocratic, Islam since its laws can not be even modified like Bible will obviously look so out of place in today's society and if you keep on producing people who strictly follow these religion to the core then they will keep on causing havoc in democratic society. It has nothing to do with RACE but everything to do with RELIGION.


@Viva

Muslims need to take their religion less seriously ?. That would be a solution but islam is written in such a way that it is really difficult to have a 'casual' faith. You are either IN or OUT. You cant become a faithful muslim and then deny that a husband can in any circumstances beat ones wife...see Laughing
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Post by Adit Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 17:05

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

I can understand why you'd think this way, and even though I disagree with your assessment, I still think it's completely honest and doesn't stem from racism or inaccurate  preconceptions, but merely from unfortunate, albeit inconclusive real-life experiences. At least you're not blindly repeating what others say, and I respect you for that.

Let me now, if I may, tell you why I disagree with you:

When you say that Islam can't be tamed through education or integration, you automatically, through no fault of your own, lump every single moderate Muslim in the same box as those fanatics. You think the problem lies in the religion itself whereas in fact Islam has nothing to do with it. If it was, every single Muslim would be a bigoted extremist; and I know for a fact that it's not true.

Last time I checked I'm a Muslim; big supporter of gay rights, gender equality and pro-choice. And even though Tunisia is a Muslim country, we don't stone or lash people for committing adultery here, we don't kill them when they abandon their faith and we couldn't care less whether you worshiped God or The Beatles. We also don't believe in 72 virgins or anything of the sort. Why? Because just like Christians, Jews and pretty much every other religious group, we've evolved and decided that barbarity has no place in this day and age.

If you kill, it's because you're a psychopath, not because you're a Muslim or Christian or Jew - Because every single human being with enough brain cells to think should know that killing innocents is wrong. And believe me, ISIS would be here even if Islam didn't exist. They would find another reason, another religion, an ideology, anything to hide behind and kill people in its name.

ISIS, believe it or not, aren't a religious group. In fact, they're the furthest thing from being religious. Like I said, I'm from Tunisia, and in recent years, many Tunisians have joined ISIS even though they're not religious in the slightest. Why? Poverty.

Please understand that I'm not excusing their behavior here, I'm just giving you the reason why they decided to join ISIS. It's no surprise that the majority of those who joined them from Tunisia happen to be from extremely poor neighborhoods. And when I say extremely poor, I mean "Where's my next meal coming from?"

These boys usually are forced to quit school at a very young age to help provide for their families. Naturally, when they spend their teen years being looked down upon and mocked for being illiterate and poor, they develop a certain resentment towards society and they become very vulnerable and impressionable. That's when ISIS makes its entrance, brainwash them, and promise them to take care of their families as long as they join them. They feast on the weak-minded.

Once again, let me repeat myself, I'm not excusing their behavior. Some people wouldn't turn rogue even if they went months without food. Others, unfortunately, would turn cannibal if they missed one meal.

So really the problem is social, not religious. An educated muslim wouldn't need to be integrated or assimilated to your culture because he already is.

I said earlier that I understand why you'd think this way and I meant it. I'm not blind, Unique. I know that you've met many bad "Muslims" in your life. People who talk loud in subways and buses with total disregard to those around them. People who come to "your country" and behave inappropriately, refuse to integrate or assimilate to your culture. People who flirt with women in a very cheap and rude way. I know all of that. But understand that not all of us are like that, and more importantly, Islam has nothing to do with it.

And believe me, it makes me sad because people like you haven't seen the true face of Islam and haven't met enough well-behaved and educated Muslims to change your mind. I just hope that one day you'll meet enough of us to change your mind.


I dont really disagree with most of your points except the part which completely rules out the religions part.

But i do have a major question.

What is moderate muslim?

How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 17:58

Adit wrote:@Viva

Muslims need to take their religion less seriously ?. That would be a solution but islam is written in such a way that it is really difficult to have a 'casual' faith. You are either IN or OUT. You cant become a faithful muslim and then deny that a husband can in any circumstances beat ones wife...see Laughing


That's technically also true of Christianity and the bible, though. Christianity, of course, had the (oftentimes in history dubious) advantage of having a pope that can temper the faith a bit, so it's really more a problem of radical imams, than an inherent problem of the faith. Doesn't help that a lot of dictators in the Islamic world use radical religion to justify their rule, like house Saud does, or the crooks surrounding Chomeini.

A lot of it is wrong place, wrong time. Most religions are easily turned into a cesspool of douchebaggery, just look at early Christians. I agree that Islam is part of the problem, but only in so far as any religion is a given society's weak point to reduce it's open-ness.

The Quran can be interpreted strictly, and less strictly. Just like the bible. If the majority of Christians were like the Westboro Baptist Church, the world would've already ended.

Muslims need to get their collective heads out of their collective arses, and stop listening to demagogues and hatemongers, and start thinking for themselves. Also grow a sense of humour, caricatures about prophets are funny, you twats, just ask Christians and Buddy Christ.
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Post by rwo power Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 21:31

Adit wrote:How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?
How can Christians believe in gay rights (ask the Catholic church), non-believer equality rights (there are some parts of the Bible that practically say kill all the heathens and burn down their towns etc), Women equality (Bible: "the woman shall be subordinate to the man") etc...

So the original Christianity has enough rules that go against modern rights, too. Christianity just had 500 years longer to grow up.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 21:41

.


Last edited by DuringTheWar on Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 1:08; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Adit Tue 5 Jul 2016 - 22:22

rwo power wrote:
Adit wrote:How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?
How can Christians believe in gay rights (ask the Catholic church), non-believer equality rights (there are some parts of the Bible that practically say kill all the heathens and burn down their towns etc), Women equality (Bible: "the woman shall be subordinate to the man") etc...

So the original Christianity has enough rules that go against modern rights, too. Christianity just had 500 years longer to grow up.


Christianity got lucky with an established centralized controlling power and also a Pope that can change the rules of God according to the necessities current society.

Islam on the other hand have no centralized controlling power. Muhammed made sure no one can change the rules also. They are incomparable to Christianity as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 3:29

Unique wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:
Unique wrote:
all of them.


Go dig a hole. And bury yourself in it. While you're at it, get an education
so you don't think we should kill every terrorist in the world. Well sorry mate but I do. And the quicker they all die the better the world will be.


If you said that, sure. But there's almost a billion people living in these countries. IF you're implying that we should murder them as well, proceed to dig that hole.
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Post by Kaladin Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 12:20

Absolutely shocking news from Baghdad

These degenerates commit this atrocity on Eid al-Fitr and still keep saying 'we're muslims'

This is not Islam, Islam is just a vehicle in their eyes to get them to commit these acts of savageries

Still reeling from this, absolutely shocking

I think its time we change the the thread name to 'ISIS terror attacks around the world' sadly
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Post by Unique Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 12:44

FennecFox7 wrote:
Unique wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:


Go dig a hole. And bury yourself in it. While you're at it, get an education
so you don't think we should kill every terrorist in the world. Well sorry mate but I do. And the quicker they all die the better the world will be.


If you said that, sure. But there's almost a billion people living in these countries. IF you're implying that we should murder them as well, proceed to dig that hole.
I was not implying but I think you were assuming
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Post by FennecFox7 Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 23:26

Unique wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:
Unique wrote:
so you don't think we should kill every terrorist in the world. Well sorry mate but I do. And the quicker they all die the better the world will be.


If you said that, sure. But there's almost a billion people living in these countries. IF you're implying that we should murder them as well, proceed to dig that hole.
I was not implying but I think you were assuming


Well then my apologies. I agree with that. But you're pointing fingers at the wrong people.
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Post by Unique Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 0:32

FennecFox7 wrote:
Unique wrote:
FennecFox7 wrote:

If you said that, sure. But there's almost a billion people living in these countries. IF you're implying that we should murder them as well, proceed to dig that hole.
I was not implying but I think you were assuming


Well then my apologies. I agree with that. But you're pointing fingers at the wrong people.
if you are talking about me blaming islam for these problems then I am. imo mulims around the world never did enough to stop the spread of radical islam and they still don't. for years they all turned a blind eye to it so long as it was aimed at the west. now they are more of a target than us. you can say its not the fault of islam but imo only islam can stop it. when was the last time muslims called the police to report other muslims that were radicals. we all need to work together but that will never happen.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 1:25

Adit wrote:
I dont really disagree with most of your points except the part which completely rules out the religions part.

But i do have a major question.

What is moderate muslim?

How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?

A moderate Muslim is just like a moderate Christian; someone who has grasped the fact that the world we live in is completely different from the one in which their religion came into existence, and as a result, its core concepts need to be brought into the modern age through proper reformation - in that I mean, it has to adapt and adjust to the circumstances and needs of contemporary life within the context of Islam as a whole.

Now, if you're educated enough, using just a little common sense, as a religious person, you should be able to come to the conclusion that women are equal to men, that gay people are people and that killing innocents is wrong.

Once again, religion has nothing to do with humans' twisted pathology. Even if religion didn't exist, psychopaths would always find a way to kill and terrorize others. And you would be wrong to think that ISIS is a Muslim group.
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Post by DuringTheWar Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 1:35

We are never going to get the root of this problem if we refuse to accept it is not due to a lack of education:

http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/2007-10.pdf
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Post by Unique Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 1:50

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Adit wrote:
I dont really disagree with most of your points except the part which completely rules out the religions part.

But i do have a major question.

What is moderate muslim?

How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?

A moderate Muslim is just like a moderate Christian; someone who has grasped the fact that the world we live in is completely different from the one in which their religion came into existence, and as a result, its core concepts need to be brought into the modern age through proper reformation - in that I mean, it has to adapt and adjust to the circumstances and needs of contemporary life within the context of Islam as a whole.

Now, if you're educated enough, using just a little common sense, as a religious person, you should be able to come to the conclusion that women are equal to men, that gay people are people and that killing innocents is wrong.

Once again, religion has nothing to do with humans' twisted pathology. Even if religion didn't exist, psychopaths would always find a way to kill and terrorize others. And you would be wrong to think that ISIS is a Muslim group.
it has everything to do with it mate. if you look at the attacks on the USA. france. the uk. turkey. bali. or anywhere we have seen attacks. the people that did it come from all walks of life. all speak different languages. all had different educations. all have different incomes. in everyday life they are nothing alike. what is the only thing that links them. its islam. you cant over look that.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 2:14

Unique wrote: if you are talking about me blaming islam for these problems then I am. imo mulims around the world never did enough to stop the spread of radical islam and they still don't
Sure you can blame Islam, but that would be the approach of a short-sighted, gullible person incapable of thinking for themselves, or lazy enough to do so, preferring to draw conclusions from the first layer instead of digging deeper for the real truth. I'm sure you're not one of those people, so you can imagine my surprise when I read your post.

for years they all turned a blind eye to it so long as it was aimed at the west.
Do you realize how insulting this is? You haven't met all of us but somehow, for some reason, you know for a fact that we hate you and we wouldn't mind having ISIS around as long as it's killing you and not us?!

The second you realize that there's no "us" and "you", and that we all are in this together, you'll understand that your pre-existing beliefs and views are solely based on a dark form of acute, blind nationalism and divisiveness.

ISIS has been killing Muslims since its inception and the number of Muslims murdered by those terrorists far exceeds those who died in the West. Now, granted, there's no competition in tragedies, but suggesting that you had been suffering from them before Muslims is factually wrong.

The fact is, you had been turning a blind eye on ISIS killing Muslims up until the very moment they started killing you. So really it's the other way around.

Now, let me tell you what "we" did when Charlie Hebdo got attacked: We gathered in the biggest street of the capital holding signs that said "Je suis Charlie", hoping that guys like you would see us and realize that the majority of us are against ISIS and that we condemn terrorism regardless of the victim's religion, color or creed. But I guess you only see what you want to see.

now they are more of a target than us. you can say its not the fault of islam but imo only islam can stop it. when was the last time muslims called the police to report other muslims that were radicals.

All the time in Tunisia. We have arrested many ISIS members in Tunisia, partly thanks to the government, but mostly thanks to the countless calls of the citizens every time they see something or someone suspicious. And I'm sure many Muslims all around the globe have done the same.

You haven't thoroughly researched this topic I'm afraid, and I think in order to have a fair and accurate opinion, you need to investigate and read more.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 2:19

Unique wrote:
The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Adit wrote:
I dont really disagree with most of your points except the part which completely rules out the religions part.

But i do have a major question.

What is moderate muslim?

How can you believe in gay rights,Women equality rights,non believer equality rights,Prohibition of children from sex rights etc etc and then become a muslim, when infact Quran itself is not so pro to all of those things listed.?

A moderate Muslim is just like a moderate Christian; someone who has grasped the fact that the world we live in is completely different from the one in which their religion came into existence, and as a result, its core concepts need to be brought into the modern age through proper reformation - in that I mean, it has to adapt and adjust to the circumstances and needs of contemporary life within the context of Islam as a whole.

Now, if you're educated enough, using just a little common sense, as a religious person, you should be able to come to the conclusion that women are equal to men, that gay people are people and that killing innocents is wrong.

Once again, religion has nothing to do with humans' twisted pathology. Even if religion didn't exist, psychopaths would always find a way to kill and terrorize others. And you would be wrong to think that ISIS is a Muslim group.
it has everything to do with it mate. if you look at the attacks on the USA. france. the uk. turkey. bali. or anywhere we have seen attacks. the people that did it come from all walks of life. all speak different languages. all had different educations. all have different incomes. in everyday life they are nothing alike. what is the only thing that links them. its islam. you cant over look that.

Then tell me, mate, why aren't I a terrorist even though I'm a Muslim? Why aren't the billion people all over the world terrorists even though they happen to be Muslims?

If Islam is the cause for terrorism, then, logically speaking, every single Muslim must be a terrorist, and yet, the majority isn't.

Only someone who didn't do his homework would blame Islam or any other religion for the crimes committed by individuals falsely sailing under the flag of Islam.
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Post by Unique Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 2:30

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Unique wrote: if you are talking about me blaming islam for these problems then I am. imo mulims around the world never did enough to stop the spread of radical islam and they still don't
Sure you can blame Islam, but that would be the approach of a short-sighted, gullible person incapable of thinking for themselves, or lazy enough to do so, preferring to draw conclusions from the first layer instead of digging deeper for the real truth. I'm sure you're not one of those people, so you can imagine my surprise when I read your post.

for years they all turned a blind eye to it so long as it was aimed at the west.
Do you realize how insulting this is? You haven't met all of us but somehow, for some reason, you know for a fact that we hate you and we wouldn't mind having ISIS around as long as it's killing you and not us?!

The second you realize that there's no "us" and "you", and that we all are in this together, you'll understand that your pre-existing beliefs and views are solely based on a dark form of acute, blind nationalism and divisiveness.

ISIS has been killing Muslims since its inception and the number of Muslims murdered by those terrorists far exceeds those who died in the West. Now, granted, there's no competition in tragedies, but suggesting that you had been suffering from them before Muslims is factually wrong.

The fact is, you had been turning a blind eye on ISIS killing Muslims up until the very moment they started killing you. So really it's the other way around.

Now, let me tell you what "we" did when Charlie Hebdo got attacked: We gathered in the biggest street of the capital holding signs that said "Je suis Charlie", hoping that guys like you would see us and realize that the majority of us are against ISIS and that we condemn terrorism regardless of the victim's religion, color or creed. But I guess you only see what you want to see.

now they are more of a target than us. you can say its not the fault of islam but imo only islam can stop it. when was the last time muslims called the police to report other muslims that were radicals.

All the time in Tunisia. We have arrested many ISIS members in Tunisia, partly thanks to the government, but mostly thanks to the countless calls of the citizens every time they see something or someone suspicious. And I'm sure many Muslims all around the globe have done the same.

You haven't thoroughly researched this topic I'm afraid, and I think in order to have a fair and accurate opinion, you need to investigate and read more.
no mate I have not met all 1.6 billion muslims in the world today. but isis was born in muslim countrys and now its got so powerful it has spread around the world. you cant tell me groups like isis popped up from nowhere and nobody saw it coming. would you say islam breeds more fanatic crack pots than any other religion in the world today.
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Post by Unique Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 2:33

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Unique wrote:
The Demon of Carthage wrote:
A moderate Muslim is just like a moderate Christian; someone who has grasped the fact that the world we live in is completely different from the one in which their religion came into existence, and as a result, its core concepts need to be brought into the modern age through proper reformation - in that I mean, it has to adapt and adjust to the circumstances and needs of contemporary life within the context of Islam as a whole.

Now, if you're educated enough, using just a little common sense, as a religious person, you should be able to come to the conclusion that women are equal to men, that gay people are people and that killing innocents is wrong.

Once again, religion has nothing to do with humans' twisted pathology. Even if religion didn't exist, psychopaths would always find a way to kill and terrorize others. And you would be wrong to think that ISIS is a Muslim group.
it has everything to do with it mate. if you look at the attacks on the USA. france. the uk. turkey. bali. or anywhere we have seen attacks. the people that did it come from all walks of life. all speak different languages. all had different educations. all have different incomes. in everyday life they are nothing alike. what is the only thing that links them. its islam. you cant over look that.

Then tell me, mate, why aren't I a terrorist even though I'm a Muslim? Why aren't the billion people all over the world terrorists even though they happen to be Muslims?

If Islam is the cause for terrorism, then, logically speaking, every single Muslim must be a terrorist, and yet, the majority isn't.

Only someone who didn't do his homework would blame Islam or any other religion for the crimes committed by individuals falsely sailing under the flag of Islam.
what % of terrorists in the world today would you say are muslim.
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Post by Unique Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 2:45

I cant for the life of me see how people can say it has nothing to do with religion. its like me saying all the crack heads in the world that rob and kill people has nothing to do with crack. being hooked on crack has nothing to do with the crimes they commit. come on people Shocked 100% of these people that do these things are motivated by religion. because not all religious people are terrorists don't mean religion don't make terrorists. the not all of us card has been played to death imo.
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Post by FennecFox7 Thu 7 Jul 2016 - 8:23

Because you are narrow sighted. You're not seeing the facts. He just wrote you a god damn paragraph and you decide to say the same shit.
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Post by Adit Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 19:22

16 people from my state went to ISIS, one is a doctor few of them engineers. Poverty and education isn't the reason, those are just catalysts. Main reason is their belief that they are going to fight for Allah. If anything people need to study why Muslims are easily falling to fight for Allah campaign.
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Post by RealGunner Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 20:24

If you add all of those people and generate a figure. It will still come as 1% or less than that of the entire Muslim population.

So it shouldn't be hard doing a study on that.


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Post by Adit Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 20:45

It is probably much lesser. Probably.0001 % , but the problem comes when you multiple that figure with 1.6 billion, the population figure of Muslims. To top it off, one suicide bomber can kill close to 50 people ( Mumbai attack 10 peeps 400 dead, Paris attack 5 peeps 200 dead, 9/11 20 peeps 3000 dead, Iraq suicide bombing 1 person 150 dead usually) etc etc. Now the numbers look really threatening.

I also believe to get .00001% to physically patriciate in wars atleast 4% are pro extremism minded ( my own figures obviously).
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Post by RealGunner Sat 9 Jul 2016 - 21:36

From UK's perspective, those who left for Syria to join ISIS were either looking for an adventure or their life sucked. None of them ever showed extremist views and they lived relatively normal lives. What changed all of a sudden? only they can tell (half are dead though). You don't just live a normal life and then travel to Syria one day to your death.

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Post by Vlad the Impaler Sun 10 Jul 2016 - 16:20

Yesterday, I saw an amazing documentary about the Charlie Hebdo incidents which took place in Paris last year in January.

HD footage, survivers talking and speaking directly without barriers about what happened, how they felt during the incidents and how they felt about the events after months. Saw it on HBO. A lot of uncensored footage of shootings.

Maybe I am impressed because it is the first time when I properly saw something about those incidents.

I don't know if it was already posted, but I found it on YouTube.

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