Pochettino, Özil, Navas, Shaw + PL strikers

Hapless_Hans wrote:There's absolutely no way you get less time and space on the ball against Hull, West Brom or Stoke than you get against Freiburg, Köln, or Frankfurt.
Not to speak of teams like Leverkusen and Gladbach, who press and close down much more coordinated than most PL top teams, even if they have inferior players.

so if the epl is not great. and you get more time and space. how is it that some world class stars flop. I mean if its a poor lge. and you have time and space what more do you need to play well.

because since the inception of football, every player can have bad seasons, and that go for epl players themselves...

Madrid destroys teams irrespective of league..Look at our champions league campaign for last two seasons (until Modric got inured) we destroys teams in CL too,you would know that as we shared a common group.

Di Maria and Ozil also plays much better in Real because face it they have significantly much better players to play with. In Arsenal Giroud is making run while in Madrid one of the best ever strikers is making runs...of course Ozil will play infinitely better.

MR BOND wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:There's absolutely no way you get less time and space on the ball against Hull, West Brom or Stoke than you get against Freiburg, Köln, or Frankfurt.
Not to speak of teams like Leverkusen and Gladbach, who press and close down much more coordinated than most PL top teams, even if they have inferior players.

so if the epl is not great. and you get more time and space. how is it that some world class stars flop. I mean if its a poor lge. and you have time and space what more do you need to play well.

I didn't say it is a poor league. I just disputed your claim that top players flop there because they have less time and space on the ball compared to other top leagues.

Mr Nick09 wrote:because since the inception of football, every player can have bad seasons, and that go for epl players themselves...

and some players find it hard to deal with some styles of football. ozil and di maria aswel as some other big world class stars didnt get on with the fast pace in your face football of the prem lge.

Hapless_Hans wrote:I didn't say it is a poor league. I just disputed your claim that top players flop there because they have less time and space on the ball compared to other top leagues.

but tell me how a world class player can flop if he has lots of time and space on the ball. and when was the last time any player scored 50-60 goals a season in England. spain as 2 of them.

obviously because spain is holding 2 of the most dangerous attacking players in the game. Also when was the last time a team in EPL was/is as crazy as RM, Barca/ Bayern 2013?

MaraVilla wrote:obviously because spain is holding 2 of the most dangerous attacking players in the game. Also when was the last time a team in EPL was as crazy as RM, Barca/ Bayern 2013?

Ronaldo was at man u. who were by far the best team in England. he was never gona get 50-60 goals a season. suarez has a better strike rate for barca than he did for Liverpool. its easy to see why ozil and di maria found it easy going in spain and are finding things hard here in England.

Man u Ronaldo v RM Ronaldo. 2 different players.

Ozil/DM found it easier because they were playing for RM and not for a mediocre Man utd.................... and a good/decent arsenal

MaraVilla wrote:Man u Ronaldo v RM Ronaldo. 2 different players.

Ozil/DM found it easier because they were playing for RM and not for a mediocre Man utd.................... and a good/decent arsenal

now they are. but in his last season at man u he got 26 in 53. in his first season at Madrid he got 33 in 35. so im not sure how much he changed as a player in a 2hr plane ride.

Well, I always wonder whether Messi or CR7 would manage to score as many goals in the BL as they do in the Spanish league. For some reason I doubt it as I don't see the coaches here allowing one player to be as much of a focus for a team as the coaches seem to allow it in Spain.

And similarly, it can be that the team set up used for players like Özil or Di Maria just doesn't work properly for them in the PL.

Or just look at Mario Götze - he was the utter star in Dortmund, but for Pep at Bayern he just doesn't shine. And I doubt you could say he unlearned how to play there!

rwo power wrote:Well, I always wonder whether Messi or CR7 would manage to score as many goals in the BL as they do in the Spanish league. For some reason I doubt it as I don't see the coaches here allowing one player to be as much of a focus for a team as the coaches seem to allow it in Spain.

And similarly, it can be that the team set up used for players like Özil or Di Maria just doesn't work properly for them in the PL.

Or just look at Mario Götze - he was the utter star in Dortmund, but for Pep at Bayern he just doesn't shine. And I doubt you could say he unlearned how to play there!

also 90%of the time its not about if Madrid and barca win. its about how many they win by. and I think ozil and di maria are timid layers. the epl is not the place for timid players.

The fact you placed Shaw is clutching at straws. He was immense everytime he played for us, especially away at Chelsea where he was MOTM.

He's 19 y/o and has been hampered with injuries through out the season, coming off the back of a full season with Southampton, the WC, then pre season. His body is still developing.

30m is a bargain imo for what he'll develop into and the potential he has shown in spades. Far from a flop.

RED wrote:The fact you placed Shaw is clutching at straws. He was immense everytime he played for us, especially away at Chelsea where he was MOTM.

He's 19 y/o and has been hampered with injuries through out the season, coming off the back of a full season with Southampton, the WC, then pre season. His body is still developing.

30m is a bargain imo for what he'll develop into and the potential he has shown in spades. Far from a flop.

this guy

Art Morte wrote:5th is a decent finish for Tottenham, but I think Tottenham were carried by individuals (Kane, Eriksen & Chadli) rather than Pochettino's work. Frankly, I think the table flatters to deceive Tottenham's real level. Yeah, it would be harsh to sack him, but Levy sacked Redknapp when they finished 4th, so...

It is my same thought , I agree with it.
It was the usual rambling Tottenham , the 5th place ( besides got because  Liverpool  was in vacation in last matchday, because 5th or 6th doesn't change  ) is enough deceptive because it doesn't show their real league. I mean , have you noticed really differences with last year ?

Basically I saw no upgrade made by Tottenham under him . He  had to give an upgrade to Spurs than AVB or Sherwood but it wasn't .

difference to AVB is, he didn't completely embarrass himself in big games though.. smashed Chelsea in a fantastic win and even won a derby against Arsenal iirc.

That alone is an upgrade on AVB. Let's not talk about Tim Sherwood lol.

all i want to say is that there is a lot of space and time on the ball in epl, i don't know why some fans feel the need to overrate every aspect of the prem, just to wank to the mediocrity

chad4401 wrote:all i want to say is that there is a lot of space and time on the ball in epl, i don't know why some fans feel the need to overrate every aspect of the prem, just to wank to the mediocrity

I don't know the stats for a fact. but id be interested to see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in England. then see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in Italy. spain and Germany.

lol Liverpool fans so desperate to call shaw a flop

looked like he belonged in every match he played for us, injuries were the problem not performances

but you guys keep thumping this agenda against him

The vast majority of Pool players bought last summer under performed relative to their price tags imo

MR BOND wrote:

chad4401 wrote:all i want to say is that there is a lot of space and time on the ball in epl, i don't know why some fans feel the need to overrate every aspect of the prem, just to wank to the mediocrity

I don't know the stats for a fact. but id be interested to see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in England. then see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in Italy. spain and Germany.

I dont know about Germany and Italy, but im sure that the bottom clubs in England do better than the Spanish. But thats because the best English teams are so far behind Madrid, Barca and maybe even Atletico.

El Shaarawy wrote:The vast majority of Pool players bought last summer under performed relative to their price tags imo

no mention of one tho...odd

The Franchise wrote:

MR BOND wrote:

chad4401 wrote:all i want to say is that there is a lot of space and time on the ball in epl, i don't know why some fans feel the need to overrate every aspect of the prem, just to wank to the mediocrity

I don't know the stats for a fact. but id be interested to see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in England. then see how the bottom clubs did against the top clubs in Italy. spain and Germany.

I dont know about Germany and Italy, but im sure that the bottom clubs in England do better than the Spanish. But thats because the best English teams are so far behind Madrid, Barca and maybe even Atletico.

that's a fair point. but I also think that the bottom clubs in England through being hard working and playing in your face football helps them compeat also I think the fact that in England the away teams get better support helps them out a bit.

El Shaarawy wrote:The vast majority of Pool players bought last summer under performed relative to their price tags imo

I fully agree with that. but you have to admit that new players for other clubs that cost a lot more were just as bad. not that it makes any difference to Liverpool. but it does put a few smug fans back to bed.

Adit wrote:Madrid destroys teams irrespective of league..Look at our champions league campaign for last two seasons (until Modric got inured) we destroys teams in CL too,you would know that as we shared a common group.

Di Maria and Ozil also plays much better in Real because face it they have significantly much better players to play with. In Arsenal Giroud is making run while in Madrid one of the best ever strikers is making runs...of course Ozil will play infinitely better.

I think that Ozil lacks motivation because he didn't really want to leave Madrid.

I'm sure the bottom teams are better than the bottom sides of Spain regardless of how their top teams play. We could even see it in their second division.

Either way, truth is PL's struggling in Europe is due more to their managers being inadequate. Man U are barely recovering from Fergie's departure, Pellegrini's not for Man City, Liverpool was dragged by Suarez and atm have no answer to his replacement, Wenger is as predictable as Guardiola whenever he faces a solid defensive side, and Mou was ousted by Blanc. Whenever the mentioned clubs will get their stuff together and if there are no changes to PL spending power we'll probably see the PL clubs perform in CL and this myth that PL is mediocre will be forgotten.