You Who Philosophize Disgrace, Now Is the Time for Your Tears

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Post by IrasMaldinista Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:24 pm

And then we remember.

We remember that, for 116 years we have been either at, or seriously challenging for, the top.
Oh, I’m sorry. Make that 114; for the last two years have not been exactly in keeping with the tradition.
Oh sure, sure, we went down in the mid ‘80s, but hell, I hadn’t been born then yet; so I do not much care. Living in the NOW I am.

Filippo Inzaghi is a fantastic coach. Give any Serie A side a midfield of Essien and Muntari and they will say hello to Serie B next August. They won't even field these has-beens if they are moderately sane. (NOTE: It was a sickening, harrowing, unbelievable, experience seeing Captain Franco's and Captain Paolo's armband given to an Inter reject. Please don't do this to us.) Pippo has done well. Good players stand out virtually effortlessly; look no further than Diego Lopez and Jeremy Menez to become a believer in this.

It would be unfair if we were to defeat Juventus. After all, when they were the laughing stock of Europe and were happy with a Uefa Cup finish, we were oh so happy with old, yet still-world class, phenoms such as Sandro Nesta and Rino Gattuso to still work their magic and keep this team alive. Juve, though, were busy building a magnificent stadium and a more than solid foundation for years to come.

The aforementioned 'years to come' came sooner than expected, and one Andrea Pirlo was enough to catalyze an unstoppable surge to the top. They are a long way from competing with fearsome juggernauts such as Chelsea, but they are on the way alright.

It is with fairly wet eyes that I wish to predict a similar, nightmarish, decade ahead for the one and only football team of my life. The road to the top is anything but devoid of obstacles. What can we say? We deserve this ordeal. A prestigious brand, a true institution, and yet, Milan do not own a stadium. Worry not friends. No one will accuse you of ignorance if you laugh at your team. I do; bitterly and not proudly, anyway.

Patience is not the best choice. It is the only one. Manchester City were in no man’s land when they were revolutionized by some Thai fraud. Milan is the name, mind you. It will be back. And it will not be back because Don Silvio is going to feel like being charitable. He and his supremely competent right-hand man philosophize disgrace, as mentioned above. Milan will be back because all paths but one are blocked, and that one path is that of laying the foundation for a new beginning. This time, for real. A new stadium, a new organizational chart, a new youth system. A new club, in short. The tradition and that rich history are there, so are the legends who have been restless to lend a hand and help resurrect this fallen hero. If we will it, it cannot elude us.

The greatest always reinvent themselves to revive, and relive, the glory days. It is a given.

The Milan I know, the Milan I grew up watching with such unshakable belief and pride, knows no way but that to the top.

Tu sei tutta la mia vita. Per sempre.
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Post by Il Diavolo Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:42 am

IrasMaldinista wrote:And then we remember.

We remember that, for 116 years we have been either at, or seriously challenging for, the top.
Oh, I’m sorry. Make that 114; for the last two years have not been exactly in keeping with the tradition.
Oh sure, sure, we went down in the mid ‘80s, but hell, I hadn’t been born then yet; so I do not much care. Living in the NOW I am.

Filippo Inzaghi is a fantastic coach. Give any Serie A side a midfield of Essien and Muntari and they will say hello to Serie B next August. They won't even field these has-beens if they are moderately sane. (NOTE: It was a sickening, harrowing, unbelievable, experience seeing Captain Franco's and Captain Paolo's armband given to an Inter reject. Please don't do this to us.) Pippo has done well. Good players stand out virtually effortlessly; look no further than Diego Lopez and Jeremy Menez to become a believer in this.

It would be unfair if we were to defeat Juventus. After all, when they were the laughing stock of Europe and were happy with a Uefa Cup finish, we were oh so happy with old, yet still-world class, phenoms such as Sandro Nesta and Rino Gattuso to still work their magic and keep this team alive. Juve, though, were busy building a magnificent stadium and a more than solid foundation for years to come.

The aforementioned 'years to come' came sooner than expected, and one Andrea Pirlo was enough to catalyze an unstoppable surge to the top. They are a long way from competing with fearsome juggernauts such as Chelsea, but they are on the way alright.

It is with fairly wet eyes that I wish to predict a similar, nightmarish, decade ahead for the one and only football team of my life. The road to the top is anything but devoid of obstacles. What can we say? We deserve this ordeal. A prestigious brand, a true institution, and yet, Milan do not own a stadium. Worry not friends. No one will accuse you of ignorance if you laugh at your team. I do; bitterly and not proudly, anyway.

Patience is not the best choice. It is the only one. Manchester City were in no man’s land when they were revolutionized by some Thai fraud. Milan is the name, mind you. It will be back. And it will not be back because Don Silvio is going to feel like being charitable. He and his supremely competent right-hand man philosophize disgrace, as mentioned above. Milan will be back because all paths but one are blocked, and that one path is that of laying the foundation for a new beginning. This time, for real. A new stadium, a new organizational chart, a new youth system. A new club, in short. The tradition and that rich history are there, so are the legends who have been restless to lend a hand and help resurrect this fallen hero. If we will it, it cannot elude us.

The greatest always reinvent themselves to revive, and relive, the glory days. It is a given.

The Milan I know, the Milan I grew up watching with such unshakable belief and pride, knows no way but that to the top.

Tu sei tutta la mia vita. Per sempre.


That's a good point. A manager can only do so much. Ultimately, it's the players that play the football on the field. Inzaghi made some mistakes, understandably, since it's his first time coaching an actual team. But I'm not gonna blame him for our current situation.

A year ago, we were doing really bad and Allegri was flamed for his tactics and substitutions and what not. That same Allegri is now on top of the Seria A standings and owned our team earlier today. The only change is that the squad he is in charge of now actually has decent players. As you pointed out, one can only do so much with dumb shits like Muntari and Essien carrying our midfield.

P.S: Good to see you back, been MIA for a while! Smile
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Post by Forza Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:23 am

Good to see you back Iras.

I'm now going to prosecute the counter-argument: Pippo has not done well.

We have a win/loss ratio worse than both Seedorf and Allegri last season. Whilst I can understand the "Pippo is trying to mold a great team out of rubbish players" argument, the fact remains that we are consistently losing and drawing games against teams with even worse squads. It's a complete fallacy that a team with as many decent players as we have isn't good enough to beat the Sassuolo's of the league each week. Let's assume that we lose to every big team in the league, but still win almost all of our other games... this probably puts us in the top 3 of the ladder. Asking Pippo to defeat Juve, Roma or Napoli with the team we have is asking too much. But it's only reasonable to expect that he will be able to handle the relegation fodder and mid-table teams most of the time.
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Post by Katy Perry Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:49 am

Essien was a terrible signing, tbh. He was pretty much signed because Montolivo was banned for last year's CL and Galliani thought Milan would need some experience and leadership in midfield for the games against Atleti, only for him to become a complete liability and one of the reasons Atleti progressed and a trainwreck of a player in the next year and a half whom I suspect still gets minute to justify his salary and the signing Galliani made.
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Post by IrasMaldinista Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:40 am

Forza, my man. I'll be damned if you're wrong. But Pippo is not an absolutely terrible coach.

For instance, do compare the team Guardiola started his job with in 2008, and the team Inzaghi was given. Now there's a very slight difference between Bonaventura and Messi, or Muntari and Xavi... Isn't there?

It's such a mistake to burn two talented, quasi-homegrown coaches like Milan did Seedorf and Inzaghi. I hope, one day, they both get a shot at glory with a decent group of players, not a bunch of rejects and retirees captained by an unworthy jerk who reacts like a 5-year-old upon being substituted.

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Post by •MilanDevil• Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:37 am

Imo, Pippo was hired at the wrong time. Initially, I was all for Pippo because I thought change would come with him especially him coming off of being our youth team coach. Our current situation is not a good ground to gain experience especially when there is huge pressure from the fans and management to meet expectations of a big club. Also, Pippo is terrible at substitutions and he has not improved on this aspect, which gives him a bad image since it could show that he is a slow-learner. The rumours of Pippo being replaced only adds further pressure and makes the job worse for Pippo. However, if we did have an actual plan and decided to stick to it, then Inzaghi would have been a fine decision but given the current situation of the club, we need a coach who has the experience to work under pressure and place the right mentality into our players.
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Post by Forza Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:10 am

IrasMaldinista wrote:Forza, my man. I'll be damned if you're wrong. But Pippo is not an absolutely terrible coach.

For instance, do compare the team Guardiola started his job with in 2008, and the team Inzaghi was given. Now there's a very slight difference between Bonaventura and Messi, or Muntari and Xavi... Isn't there?

It's such a mistake to burn two talented, quasi-homegrown coaches like Milan did Seedorf and Inzaghi. I hope, one day, they both get a shot at glory with a decent group of players, not a bunch of rejects and retirees captained by an unworthy jerk who reacts like a 5-year-old upon being substituted.


Ah, but I didn't say that he was a terrible coach. I said that he hasn't done a good job. There is every chance that he will get a better chance to prove his worth with a better group of players in the future.
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Post by Cruijf Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:50 pm

Iras, a pleasure to see you post as always.

You make a good point, and its one that was raised when Pippo's sacking appeared imminent and the discussion was only on who would come next. With this group of players, even Guardiola would be hard pressed to do any better.

Having said that, the things that have angered the fans are not the results, not that we're 10th in the table, but the truly stupid decisions Inzaghi has made. Like playing Muntari and Essien twice against Juventus. Like refusing to play Honda behind the strikers because of an unexplainable obsession with Menez. Like benching SES, the only player on our team who has the potential to be anything close to World Class.

We still wouldn't be in the CL, or maybe not even the EL, with a better coach, but at least watching the games of our beloved Milan wouldn't be this goddamn painful.
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Post by baresi Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:31 pm

I I feel sorry saying this, but Inzaghi is the worst coach we had even Leo did much better, I won't count all his bad points I will just mention the most critical for me, I was expecting from a coach that came from coaching our youth teams to introduce atleast two new players, not to use Essien.... Benching the Chelsea player to play Essien is a crime IMO, we have no clear vision of what our tactics are or our style of play, during Leo's period we all knew he was an attacking maniac that goes all out attack being right or wrong is a another subject but he had an idea, Allegri was a more conservative one based on what squad he had etc.... We are in February and I have no idea what our playing style is. We have a team that is better than the pervious three seasons in every position and yet results are worse.
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Post by IrasMaldinista Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:49 pm

You know, while as I said before, I don't consider Pippo as terrible (and calling him fantastic was being semi-sarcastic), a truly great manager's caliber is manifested in his choice of substitutions, and Inzaghi's could best be described as not-so-funnily weird.

I mean, Rami for Zaccardo to roam down the right hand side? Dude, seriously?

But, @Baresi, I find it hard to agree with you. This squad is hardly a squad to begin with, let alone the best since 2012.

What most people seem to have forgotten is that Kaka and Balotelli are gone. Now, none of the two is worldclass anymore and Mario, in particular, was a really disturbing, disrupting presence in the squad. But they had that priceless ability to change the course of a game at any moment. They both had the ability to score from distance and Kaka was a great runner and Passer of the ball.

In short, have been horrible since Ibra left and while this year Menez has been a revelation and we have (Surprisingly) acquired one of the world's very best keepers, we are still not even Euro League material.
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Post by Il Diavolo Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:15 pm

baresi wrote:I I feel sorry saying this, but Inzaghi is the worst coach we had even Leo did much better, I won't count all his bad points I will just mention the most critical for me, I was expecting from a coach that came from coaching our youth teams to introduce atleast two new players, not to use Essien.... Benching the Chelsea player to play Essien is a crime IMO, we have no clear vision of what our tactics are or our style of play, during Leo's period we all knew he was an attacking maniac that goes all out attack being right or wrong is a another subject but he had an idea, Allegri was a more conservative one based on what squad he had etc.... We are in February and I have no idea what our playing style is. We have a team that is better than the pervious three seasons in every position and yet results are worse.


Menez has by far been the best player on our team this season, and El Sharaawy is injured more often than not. I think Pippo is trying to play safe and not rush him. Also, Motolivo and De Jong are the only two decent midfielders we have on our squad and they were both unavailable.

Is our team really better then the last three years? I don't think so. As Iras pointed out, we don't have Balotelli. Our midfield sucks hardcore. Galliani for some reason refuses to change and continues stockpiling scrubs while we are already having a tough time getting rid of the ones we signed earlier. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the little transfer funds we had were spent on Fernando *bleep* Torres.

What I'm trying to say is that our whole situation is messed up right now from the management up top to the squad down below. Pippo made mistakes but to put a majority of the blame for our current situation on him is just wrong. Galliani is smart enough to realize this and I think that's the only reason Inzaghi is still in charge (and probably will be until the end of the season).
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Post by Based Bonera Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:40 pm

Its a vicious cycle, im sure we'll be back to our glory days. But its just depressing to watch our Milan these days. Crying or Very sad
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Post by IrasMaldinista Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:07 am

My fellow Iranian Milan fans on Facebook always point to the stats backing Seedorf as the better coach when compared to Inzaghi and demand that the latter be dismissed before harming his reputation as a club favorite even further. I honestly don't know if Seedorf was better, but from what I learned, he simply couldn't be the headcoach of THIS squad.

Seedorf, quite correctly, considered 90% of the current crop of players as unworthy of this prestigious shirt. He simply wanted to get rid of them in an express, ruthless way. Well, for a team whose matchday revenue doesn't equal even a fifth of the likes of Barca, this is asking for too much. His crazy ambitions led to friction and conflict of opinions, hence his being given the sack.

Inzaghi has a cooler head and puts up with the senile Silvio and Uncle Fester's horrid transfer misadventures. So, for the time being, he will remain intact. For the future, it's anybody's guess.

From an objective point of view, as a huge Champions League fan, I simply don't deem Milan good enough for the ultimate Football tournament.

This can change, mind you. Only not yet.
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Post by Forza Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:57 am

Seedorf was put in a difficult position. He's clearly an intelligent and passionate person. However, he lacked the reputation as a coach to make those sweeping changes that he believed to be necessary. He came into his first job with a plan for how to correct the team's flaws, but the players and management weren't willing to accept his ideas. Now, perhaps Seedorf did have poor man management, we don't really know the truth of what happened. I think the problem was that in the space of 6 months he tried to undo the Senatore rubbish that has been plaguing this club since 2007-08. It was too much too soon for the powers that be and that proved to be Seedorf's demise.
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Post by Based Bonera Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:44 am

Regardless of Inzaghi's flaws, sacking him would not solve anything. We could change coaches as much as we like. But its clear as a day that this team lacks talent to contend for Serie A (im not even going to talk about europe). We need to have some type of consistency, stick with Inzaghi for a season or 2 and let him learn from his mistakes. Changing managers every season is just going to harm the progression of young players like MDS, ElSharaawy and the future Ballon D'or winner....Essien.
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Post by Kaladin Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:36 am

My quip with Inzaghi is that he hasn't shown anything fashionable/promising to warrant us sticking with him for 2 years. Dost raised good point in the mercato thread:

dostoevsky wrote:

Inzaghi is a wildcard whose activity can not be predicted. No matter who we bring in, these players will not leave unless they are excluded on a systematic basis, but can we count on Pippo to do that? The man who changed our formation on the basis of a temper tantrum from Cerci? Mexes was supposedly frozen out and on his way to an exit earlier this year before being reinstated to the first team, even wearing the armband on occasions. Even during the early months when there was some semblance of a heirarchy, Zapata was reintroduced for games in which Inzaghi  was concerned about the pace of our opponents. All the while, Bonera has been praised even after disastrous performances by Pippo and continually reinstated. You're forgetting that Pippo has played with Bonera for years and years. All the market activity in the world won't force him out of the club unless Inzaghi takes a stand and to this point in the season he's yet to make a courageous call.

P.S. good to see you Iras!
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Post by Dante Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:42 pm

baresi wrote:I I feel sorry saying this, but Inzaghi is the worst coach we had even Leo did much better, I won't count all his bad points I will just mention the most critical for me, I was expecting from a coach that came from coaching our youth teams to introduce atleast two new players, not to use Essien.... Benching the Chelsea player to play Essien is a crime IMO, we have no clear vision of what our tactics are or our style of play, during Leo's period we all knew he was an attacking maniac that goes all out attack being right or wrong is a another subject but he had an idea, Allegri was a more conservative one based on what squad he had etc.... We are in February and I have no idea what our playing style is. We have a team that is better than the pervious three seasons in every position and yet results are worse.


Baresi Proud

nice to see you posting man , where you've been ffs Proud

I am inclined to agree with you on Inzaghi really . Last time you said this i didn't , but now i honestly do . I won't drag it though , i've said countless things around the section about Inzaghi already , sadly more negatives than positives . He wasn't ready for this , i think he still isn't and in my honest opinion , regardless of how well he supposedly does till the end of the season , we should give ourselves the chance to have a better coach in the summer . We have the means to create a very interesting team , instead of just AC Menez . At the very least , we won't be questioning if we can even get EL football..

So i must say , i am all in for Inzaghi to leave , not because i don't like him or don't believe in him to improve , but because of Milan , the team really deserves better than a rookie manager . It's what we should do , imho. If we do not however , then i must say , we shall have to stick with Pippo for the long term and embrace everything that comes our way till the long term becomes present one day . We won't deserve this , no one will , but perhaps this Milan is meant to be coached by a lesser coach really . Maybe it's only right coach and team learn together on the road ? I wouldn't have chosen this for Milan .

I don't think Inzaghi is a bad coach , he's just inexperienced and very green . In 3 years time who knows how much better he will be for Milan . Problem is , should we suffer the nothingness and all the disaster that will follow till then? We really shouldn't . But anyway . I think whatever happens , it will work out for the best , things will naturally take their course.
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