AC Milan vs Parma

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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:45 pm

seriously , even the fact that he didn't play

Destro
Menez-Honda-Cerci

is reason enough for sack . You just don't do this . There was no better time to try it out , no better conditions .

Instead , he plays Cerci out of position , Honda out of position , Menez continues to be free doing his thingy and Destro got 2-3 touches of the ball at best .

Midfield Poli-Van Ginkel had to fight to even get the ball and when they had it , Menez was nowhere to be seen and the wingers closed down. They passed to the fullbacks , who passed to the CBs , untill Menez gets back to try and do what Poli-Van Ginkel should be doing , pass/drive the ball onwards. Of course he didn't do this not once . Not one properly constructed attack the entire first half and Parma doing better and quite easily dominating this midfield .And how could they not , when the front 4 have Van Ginkel-Poli for protection ?

Pippo is destroying my mind , he used Essien and Muntari all the time in 4-3-3 and now with 4-4-2 he uses the technical midfielders . When we actually should be playing them in the 4-3-3 , he does it now. Players out of position , formations bastardised , basic criteria never met , close to no agressiveness , Destro literaly getting just 1 legit pass to shoot all 45m .

How difficult can it be to just play 4-2-3-1 properly ? Muntari-Poli to cover and Menez-Honda-Cerci playing there positions to help Destro score .

0 faith in Inzaghi anymore . This game is telling on so many levels . I said earlier we could play 5-0-5 and be done with it , it really would be better than that . This is literaly Leonardo's 4-2-4 only 10x times poorer . You don't play these players , Destro-Menez-Cerci-Honda , with Van Ginkel-Poli to cover for them . And you certainly don't play counter attacks with no pressing at all .

He better shift this team properly in the 2nd half and introduce Muntari in to play with Poli , elsewise the best we can hope is a draw . Even if we win like that , the fact we fail to outplay Parma is enough for me , he must go . To hell , Parma is playing better than us , more exciting to watch them than Milan , regardless of the result .

ffs it hurts to watch all this madness , it really hurts Laughing

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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:49 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:
Dante wrote:
El Shaarawy wrote:This defense rofl


this game is all the proof anyone needs to see Inzaghi must be sacked . In every way possible in a game , we are doing it wrong and the most problematic team in Serie A is already 1-1 with us , attacking more and playing better. Our defenders have 3 shots at goal and Destro only 1

at 40m Destro got his first pass to score by who else , Honda and he was inside the box even. Menez would have shoot that without a 2nd thought. Let's see how many months it takes Inzaghi to get it that we need a 4-2-3-1 with Honda behind Destro :coffee:

if he's here till then Laughing


Its shocking to think that we're barely going toe-to-toe with the worst team in the league at home when we face the best team next week Laughing


true enough Laughing

Juventus will rip us apart , we will at least concede 4 goals against them if we play like this . Even if we don't expect at best 2-3 shots from us in the entire game , that's exactly what will happen against Juventus

3-0 or 4-0
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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:54 pm

he put Essien instead of Muntari.

Essien who can't even pass and see the field like Van Ginkel

Instead of Muntari who can run like a machine he introduces Essien just to be a poor man's Van Ginkel

he did that

Proud
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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:02 pm

goaaaal

fantastic job by Cerci , easily our best player so far . Menez finished it superbly .

like i said , if it's not a counter attack , don't expect anything
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Post by M99 Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:19 pm

You just knew Nocerino would score lmao so predictable.

At least we are winning :bow:
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Post by Kaladin Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:20 pm

Zaccardo or Serginho?
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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:20 pm

Zaccafuuuuuuu rofl rofl
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Post by M99 Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:22 pm

Is Zaccardo the best Italian RB since Cabrini?

Perhaps.
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Post by Kaladin Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:23 pm

Legitimate question, is Zaccardo the 2nd best RB after Abate?
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Post by Kaladin Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:43 pm

AC Milan vs Parma - Page 2 H3baw

rofl
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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:55 pm

Ac Milanez - Parma 3-1

Best Playerz :

1.Menez
2.Zaccafu
3.Cerci

Flop of the Match : Essien
Best Sub : lol
Worst Sub : Essien

Inzaghi : 4/10
Overall play : 5/10

We've become a team that can only counter attack . Our formation was savagely misbalanced and could only produce when given space . Absolutely pathetic in build-up play and overall constructure of attacks , however our counter attacks are good , tinkered in the right way it could be lethal . That's still no excuse as to our failure to enforce ourselves otherwise. Honorable mention to Zaccardo , despite being ostracised , benched and over looked all this time , he steps in with true character and impacts the game with everything he got . 10/10 performance out of an aging veteran . Wish the rest of the fodder lot followed his example .

Pleasant scoreline , but not telling half the story of this game . Menez did his part in the final third , but there are major issues with him consuming and usurping the CF , whoever that is . When Destro was off , moments later he would assist Zaccardo . Again , Torres and Pazzini suffered from this and Destro will suffer the same if this doesn't change . We have a player which is literaly of no use to us with Menez behind him . He won't assist any CF and he will take all the chances to be fed himself . The entire game not 1 pass to Destro , it's pathetic really. Honda took the ball 2 times in the central area behind Destro and assisted him immediately . That's all you need.

2 goals and 1 assist , excellent individually , very poor as a team player . Next up is Juventus , who i am afraid will expose us like no other so far . 3-1 win against the most problematic team in Serie A atm , with struggle in the first half and with counters being our only choice and option .

Sadly for us Juventus has the best defence , midfield and attack in Serie A , meaning if we score just one from a counter it will be great news . I predict at least 3-0 defeat .
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Post by Kaladin Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:13 pm

Dante wrote:Ac Milanez - Parma 3-1

Best Playerz :

1.Menez
2.Zaccafu
3.Cerci

Flop of the Match : Essien
Best Sub : lol
Worst Sub : Essien

Inzaghi : 4/10
Overall play : 5/10

We've become a team that can only counter attack . Our formation was savagely misbalanced and could only produce when given space . Absolutely pathetic in build-up play and overall constructure of attacks , however our counter attacks are good , tinkered in the right way it could be lethal . That's still no excuse as to our failure to enforce ourselves otherwise. Honorable mention to Zaccardo , despite being ostracised , benched and over looked all this time , he steps in with true character and impacts the game with everything he got . 10/10 performance out of an aging veteran . Wish the rest of the fodder lot followed his example .

Pleasant scoreline , but not telling half the story of this game . Menez did his part in the final third , but there are major issues with him consuming and usurping the CF , whoever that is . When Destro was off , moments later he would assist Zaccardo . Again , Torres and Pazzini suffered from this and Destro will suffer the same if this doesn't change . We have a player which is literaly of no use to us with Menez behind him . He won't assist any CF and he will take all the chances to be fed himself . The entire game not 1 pass to Destro , it's pathetic really. Honda took the ball 2 times in the central area behind Destro and assisted him immediately . That's all you need.

2 goals and 1 assist , excellent individually , very poor as a team player . Next up is Juventus , who i am afraid will expose us like no other so far . 3-1 win against the most problematic team in Serie A atm , with struggle in the first half and with counters being our only choice and option .

Sadly for us Juventus has the best defence , midfield and attack in Serie A , meaning if we score just one from a counter it will be great news . I predict at least 3-0 defeat .


+1

I don't have much expectations against the big guns in Serie A, most of our matches are away, bar Roma. It's saddening since we had a promising start to the season, then we devolved into some obscene joke of a team.

The question the lingers now: Will an EL spot even help our efforts next season if we're vying for 3rd spot?
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Post by Dante Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:40 pm

not sure because it will really depend on the team we will forge in the summer and who is going to lead it next season . El isn't bad news by any means , on the contrary , it's an invitation for better players to join us and work our way to the CL. I'd even say playing less games is always bad , since we don't have a top 3 team to compete anyway .

In any case , i may fall into drugs if we have to live with yet another season without European football . EL , i will gladly take it , yes please . Even one season away from any European competition was a savage blow , and not just economicaly but existentially as well . Our place is in the CL of course , but we are proving beyond doubts we don't deserve to be in it , so i would gladly have Milan within the EL , with the hope we forge the new Milan in there next season . Our chances to make top 3 do not reside within the possibility of EL making it harder , it's all about actually building a team that can win it's way toward there , under a coach who knows how to drive them there properly.

My honest expectation is for Milan to finish 5th , or 6th , more likely . I believe this team is capable of that . This team and especially with this coach will do no more than that , 4th will be a victory as i see it. As for if EL is good news , yes , it is . Let's not sound like Galliani in here .. Even if we somehow got into the CL this or next season , what does it even matter when we suck so much , or when we can't even compete after 16 ?

I'd have Milan improve through the game we play in EL for next season and if they want the obvious , to be making the CL , Galliani better prove a true guru and offload the fodder and get top players and a great coach . Magical voo-doo transfers , hip hip huray and FM manager Inzaghi won't lead us back into the CL , let alone compete in too . So , as far as i can see , yes please get into the EL and we go from there . We cannot do without european football , it's hurting us on all fronts . If they want Champions League football , well then , let them create a team that can be in it. This obscene joke of a team like you said , doesn't deserve CL football and it's only right .

We already slipped in 2012-2013 and we saw what happened next season . It won't be any different next season if we just get in . We either build a team that has every right to be in the CL , or we will be playing in the EL in the foreseeable future . ATM , we are at best EL material .
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Post by Forza Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:36 am

I'll get excited when we beat a team that isn't on the verge of total on-field and off-field collapse.
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Post by dostoevsky Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:49 am

I won't say much as Dante has already given an excellent account of the match and the issues surrounding our team.

On our debutants, I was pleased by many of things I saw from Destro but we're going to struggle to give him the service he needs if we continue with such a bizarre set up. Cerci was utterly isolated on the left whilst it's difficult to understand exactly what instructions Honda was operating under when he he and Cerci switched sides. Perhaps Bonventura will provide a more apt fit to transition effectively between a LCM and LW role, whilst Antonelli's introduction will undoubtedly provide greater balance. Bocchetti barely made an impact in attack all game and the difference seeing a true attacking left back such as Antonelli who is comfortable going on the outside or cutting in to combine and shoot will be refreshing to see. Bocchetti meanwhile brought new meaning to the phrase "Safety first." I have no issue with a defender deciding to clear an uncomfortable situation rather when necessary but there was absolutely no discernment shown here. This was a systematic approach that showed no composure in situations in which we were barely threatened. I will not criticise him too heavily as he was playing out of position but from what I saw today he's still the same physically and positionally suspect defender he was when he left Italy and will do nothing but ride the bench and collect a lovely wage packet to do, again, nothing.

Van Ginkel was uninspiring once more though the structures that surrounded him were hardly conducive to building play. He did come up with one excellent long ball to Destro which nearly resulted in a goal thanks to Mirante's calamitous decision to come out but there are clearly issues and he appears to have gone backwards from his first few appearances under Inzaghi. Really, I fail to see what he has done this season that Cristante couldn't have easily replicated and bettered.

Cerci and Menez were once again deadly on the counter but the latter's movement and use of the ball when Parma were sitting back just reinforced everything wrong with our play. Slow and static. This isn't an issue of having a huge budget. Empoli are run on a shoe string and yet they are compact when defending but bring the ball forward quickly and simply. Everyone knows where to move, they do so promptly and when they do pass the ball back, it is merely to facilitate a quick switch so they can continue to build whilst the opportunity is present. We struggled to match the fluidity of Parma at times let alone Empoli.

Lopez was once more called upon to be heroic and continues to be our most consistent performer over the season. His save on Nocerino after Rami decided he wanted to dribble out of our six yard box was the most important moment in the entire game. That Antonio Nocerino could have scored a first half hat trick though says everything you need to know about our team. I was pleased for Antonio though, I always wish him well and hope he has success at Parma. They've also made an astute pick up with Christian Rodriguez, hopefully they mount at least a competitive battle against relegation, though I doubt they will enjoy any success.

Unfortunately though, the biggest downside to this game is the suspension Destro picked up. In 18 months, Balotelli didn't play Juventus once. Let us hope Mattia does not end up consistently missing this fixture for us as well.
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Post by Katy Perry Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Dante, I don't think you're looking at Menez in the right way (saying this after reading what you wrote in here and in other threads).

He's definitely not a pure winger or attacking midfielder, altho he can play there, he's not even a "false nine". He's a striker, a forward, and he's been Milan's best forward and arguably Milan's best player thus far. I don't think he should be more unselfish and feed other players more than he did so far with Milan, he's the only one that makes things happen in Milan's attack, so it's obvious that he tries to overdo it and I'm pretty sure that Inzaghi encourages him to do so for that reason. He should be the one who gets fed.

Whether a Menez-Destro duo will fail I guess we'll have to wait. It has been just one game they played together and Menez played next to Torres or Pazzo very few times and they were both finished when Menez arrived. I'd say Menez-Pazzo/Torres duo failure is down to that more than anything.
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:09 pm

The problem with that KP is that Menez simply does not play like a Number 9. In theory, he could play like an SS alongside someone like Destro or Torres, but then when he gets the ball he either a) attempts to dribble the whole team or b) plays a poor ball.

His finishing has been good this year sure, and by pure virtue of playing half the season as our CF he's our top scorer, but he isn't a N9.

Like Dante said before the game, it was fairly obvious it was gonna turn into a 4-2-3-1, not a 4-4-2 with Menez playing alongside Destro. He dropped too deep and tried to play like a poor mans Messi, completely ignoring his supposed strike partner. That's the crux of the problem - we've taken a player that's spent the whole season going wherever he pleases and told him to play alongside someone else and feed him.

I know you can say there's still potential, they need time, it's only one game, but I'm judging off Menez' overall play over the entire season. He just cannot play like a traditional SS that feeds and combines with a traditional CF. He's a selfish player that's good at dribbling and has an eye for goal, nothing more. Why we tried to turn him into a striker is anyone's guess.
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Post by Dante Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:27 am

i can't believe what just happened... i've written a 7 paragraphs post to answer KP properly and the power shut down

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

AC Milan vs Parma - Page 2 Jurgen-klopp-napoli-dismissal


Menez isn't a CF , he isn't a false 9 , he is a second striker who preffers to act as the sole CF , to the detriment of the team and the real CF. A false 9 isn't necessarily the same as SS , in fact most of the time it has nothing to do with it. Menez is at best a very poor one . By playing in the CF position and not being a classic one doesn't make him a false9 , not even when he's been used in a 4-3-3 . Since he doesn't and in fact cannot do it right , no. He's been playing in the CF position trying to be a CF , but his characteristics and his primadona and egotistic attitude bastardise and confuse the notion of all variations of a striker . What he primarily does , is what he likes , and i severely disagree that he is in the right to do so , or that he should stay as he is . The only reason Inzaghi backs him up so much despite doing it wrong on many an occasion , is because he wants to feed his very own narcissism , just to prove his own choice to insist on Menez gold . The very old i told you so

All what Menez does is trying to be another Ibrahimovic for Milan , both in attitude and responsibility , clearly failing at both in hilarious but rather unpleasant fashion . You wouldn't call Ibra a false 9 , would you ? Menez does succeed individualy , but where it's being proved beyond doubts he's not actually doing it right , is the fact that all his goals and impact on our play really reflect on how poor Milan has been doing . Individualy very good , terrible team player. Can that ever be right when the team is so below it's standards and goals ? Obviously no , but it does go on because both Inzaghi and Menez have an understanding of what narcissism means and they respect each other too much on that.

Last but certainly not least , it's being called second striker for a reason , because the main responsibility for the goals still reside within the main central forward . If you are a SS but playing CF alone , you can be doing what Menez has been doing , in fact i only complained for his procrastinating when that was the case . However , when there's a CF in front of you , you can't go on like that , even if you're the better forward. By ditching and neglecing and denying the CF his fair share , he automaticaly makes his team play with 10 men , that man in front of him is useless and unecessary .  

Since we did , however , Menez simply has to comply , there's not much more into it. Both Torres and Pazzini were bereft of the final pass or the support from their SS in Menez , resulting to be selfish too when they got the ball and trying to do things they were never good at and obviously would look bad at it. Especially in Pazzini's case , a disaster .

Don't let the goals fool you ; half of them are penalties , barely winning 1 of them himself . The other half are exploiting individual errors -a trait which any forward can possess- and the rest are simply individualistic efforts and attempts that matter little what type of forward one is , rather his abilities and characteristics do , which again , from Costa to Messi , to Van Persie and Rooney , all have scored similar goals. All that matter little when he makes the player in front of him obsolete and useless ; the only reason he is in front of Menez or slightly in front of him and next to him , is because he's expected to score the fkn goals , the main reason that is. When Menez does his thingy ALL the time and denies his CF his fair share , we have a serious problem and you can't be more wrong if you think that shouldn't change.

If Menez had to be the fed man of the attack , then we shouldn't really have bought Destro . In conclusion , Menez doesn't even have to adapt , he has to stop being a freakin primadona and do his part , actually be the second striker . Being the second striker doesn't leave you out of the goals either , but it does require a certain football IQ i've yet to see from Menez. Shevchenko too was a SS , Menez should sit down and watch some DVDs and realise the difference between self-determination and being self-confident for the best of the team , than being selfish and self-reliant for the 'best of the team'.

We got Destro a player that should be here long after Menez leaves one day . No , Menez shouldn't be the top scorer any more , the only reason he currently is , it's because of Inzaghi having a boner for his own reasons. Destro will suffer the same fate as Torres unless Menez does his job as he ought to. I am not saying become Ozil , but don't try to be a bastardization of Ronaldo's selfshiness with Ibra's arrogance . Play off the CF and look to help him score and when not possible or idealy better to score himself , go himself. That is simply it .

In a 4-2-3-1 though , playing Menez behind Destro , is a fkn catastrophe. You need the AMF to be a 10 there , to provide and use vision into reality . Menez can only run and shoot at goal , woosh , like having Balotelli playing 10 in a different body. We haven't used 4-2-3-1 yet with Menez there , we used 4-4-2 . Yet Menez didn't look to do what i say , rather keep doing what he did with 4-3-3 , which resulted in everything being a misbalanced and unfortunate 4-2-3-1 , incredibly having almost everyone but Destro and Poli out of position and role , which showed after both suffered to impact the game , no matter how hard they tried .

Menez either does his very own job as SS in 4-4-2 , or he plays on the left wing in a 4-2-3-1 , with Honda playing his role too and Cerci playing his role too , and also Destro benefiting from every one playing their role . Menez doesn't have to be the hero , we don't need a hero we need a functioning team that plays with 11 , not 10 players with the 10th being an augmented(sick) Menez . He's not doing your classic 9 justice hence why we got Destro and he's not doing nearly half the justice when he goes false9-ing , he's just a fake-false9 , or better put , a very poor one . We don't even need a false9 all the time even if we have had a great one , a false9 knows how to adapt and when to exercise his duties , Menez just always does the same shit no matter the opponent , only difference being how succesfull he proves to be , to the detriment of anything else.

Menez is without a shred of a doubt a second striker that wants to usurp the CF for personal gain and success . But a SS don't have to do that and only that to succeed , a great SS can still score many goals within proper use of duties , ability and task at hand . Sheva and Pippo did this so well between each other , i hope he will push Menez into the right direction and share the trick with him , elsewise we can all forget about Destro if Menez continues to do what he does , he will inevitably suffer and become useless in suffocation and need of assisting and support. For the last time , when you have a classic 9 , you either feed him and support him before anything else , or you might as well just play with 10 , cause that player is fkn useless to you when the ball comes near the box and you don't use him .

Finaly , i never said Menez is a winger and especially an AMF , i KNOW he couldn't even if he wished it. His vision , decision-making , decision-timing and decision-execution AND quality of passing are simply average . Just speed doesn't make you an AMF , although it is necessary in today's game. If Inzaghi is such an idiot to believe Menez can do either false9 or AMF properly , don't be surpised if he coaches Cesena or Sassuolo in 1-2 years from now on . Menez , if he isn't going to be a forward , he can only play on the wing to allow him space to counter attack or invade and that only in a 4-2-3-1 , otherwise Menez in his lack of tactical solidity and defensive trait will be turning the play into a bastardization of 4-3-3 , which won't be working in balance .

Generaly speaking Menez , is such a selfish and egotistic player that you can only use him so much . There's a reason in proper teams he's been used with caution . We are just pretty much mid-table mediocre stuff these days and we pretend his our star , but really , if we want to be a team that at least does the basics right , Menez will have to do his job first of all , before anything else. I don't blame him or anything for his goals , but now that we have Destro , he simply has to play real SS . Not try to play the CF ; not try to play a false9 - not try to be another Ibra ; he can't do any of that justice. What he can is adapt and compromise his ways some and be a legit team player within his own role and actually make a lethal attack with Destro , i am not asking for him to score less , i am asking for Destro to score more , if we do it right he will continue to score many goals either way .

If he's not going to get it together , i am afraid Destro was a useless signing . We really don't need another CF if we have Menez usurping him all the time , it's like playing Pirlo and Xabi Alonso in front of the defence at the same time. No matter how good both are , one of them is going to be severerly misused .
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Post by dostoevsky Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:15 pm

Truly great post, Dante, absolutely comprehensive.

The idea of building the side around Menez going forward continues to anger me. That's all we've done this season and this is where we are. Our results and performances won't improve by continuing in this vein. This is it, this is the pinnacle of a side built around Menez - midtable mediocrity. Teams build around the likes of Messi, Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic, players either of irresistible force. Menez has been at top clubs before and his role there reflects his level. Roma and PSG would never have tolerated Menez as a figurehead, it is madness that we are now embracing him.
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AC Milan vs Parma - Page 2 Empty Re: AC Milan vs Parma

Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:24 pm

It's no different than what we did with Taraabt (which is why I never understood people wanting us to make the move permanent). Taking a scrub that is too old to get much better than he is and making him the focal point of our team.
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AC Milan vs Parma - Page 2 Empty Re: AC Milan vs Parma

Post by Forza Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:49 pm

I think Menez throws up some of the same problems that Balotelli did when he was here. Specifically, what do you do with a CF who plays like a SS? It's not that there's anything wrong with a CF who drops deeper. Indeed, it is a desirable trait in some teams. But the important difference between Menez, Balotelli and Messi is that the latter has the quality to deserve to have a team built around him. I agree wholeheartedly with Dante, Dos and Cruijf in that this Milan team can never be successful with Menez as it's focal point.
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