US Presidential Race

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Post by McLewis Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:23 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:She looks like Ms. Underwood, has my vote.

All kidding aside I heard her CEO track record is terrible, doubt she would beat Clinton.


I was working for HP during her tenure there and the environment there was ridiculous. My business unit wasn't effected by the firings, but had a lot of friends in those areas that were. Lots of flip-flopping. People who thought they were safe were the ones that went first and the ones who should've gone stayed much longer than they should've. It was chaos. Meg Whitman was no better though.

Regarding the debates, it's clear that Fox News was the real winner here, as the Huff Post points out.

I must say, I don't agree with Megyn Kelly on a lot of stuff, but I enjoyed watching her hammer Trump on his comments about women. Fantastic segment.

Also really enjoyed Chris Christie's jabs with Rand Paul. Jeb Bush utterly failed with his "voice of reason" schtick. This wasn't the night for that and he made himself look rather weak with his calls for civility.

I personally won't support any of these candidates as my ideology is very different from theirs, but this was great entertainment.

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Post by M99 Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:58 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:The Republican debate is over. Not one word about income and wealth inequality, climate change, Citizens United or student debt. That's why the Republicans are so out of touch with the American people. What I heard was more tax breaks for the rich, more people losing health insurance and more talk about war. This is not what we need.
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Post by McLewis Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Bernie Sanders can't even get through his own rallies without Black Lives Matter activists hounding him. He was never going to get the Democratic nomination and with the Black vote being a bloc that's quite crucial to winning the whole thing, as boisterous and bullish as BLM are being, he has to come and address their concerns directly and genuinely. He hasn't done that and it makes him extremely opaque, which is something you don't want to be when in his position.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:36 pm

McLewis wrote:Also really enjoyed Chris Christie's jabs with Rand Paul. Jeb Bush utterly failed with his "voice of reason" schtick. This wasn't the night for that and he made himself look rather weak with his calls for civility.
I thought that was interesting because tons of people thought Rand 'won' and tons of people thought Christie 'won' that exchange.
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Post by RealGunner Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:02 pm

https://twitter.com/UrbanEngIish/status/630394578051317760
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Post by CBarca Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:24 pm

McLewis wrote:Bernie Sanders can't even get through his own rallies without Black Lives Matter activists hounding him. He was never going to get the Democratic nomination and with the Black vote being a bloc that's quite crucial to winning the whole thing, as boisterous and bullish as BLM are being, he has to come and address their concerns directly and genuinely. He hasn't done that and it makes him extremely opaque, which is something you don't want to be when in his position.


Interesting article here about this, that came out a while ago. Seems relevant right now.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/07/the_truth_about_bernie_sanders_race_why_his_biggest_weakness_could_become_his_greatest_strength/

I don't understand his reluctance to talk about race. I understand and even agree that a large amount of racial inequality can be attributed to economic inequality and the socioeconomic circumstances that black, latino and other minority groups grow up in--but if he wants a wider appeal, he needs to address race directly. As this article points out, despite him being an old white guy from the whitest state in America, he has the history and the credentials to back up his being a firm supporter of racial equality.

If he can manage to start garnering large amounts of support from those voting blocs, as he well should considering he will do ten fold the amount of good for them as any other candidate available--I really wonder where his campaign will go and how it will start to look, as far as being an actual threat besides moving Hillary left and showing there is one politician we can trust in this country.

Don't know how others felt about the GOP debate, it was entertaining. Of course, I would never support a single candidate, but from the pool of candidates out there, it seems to me that Christie is the one I could stomach the most, if a GOP candidate had to be president. Of course, the bridge scandal is something I also really can't overlook. As long as Walker doesn't have a chance at the presidency and a dem wins it's a win for me tbh
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Post by rwo power Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:05 pm

One thing that always puzzles me a lot - why are there only two parties in the US that have part in governing?

Being from Germany, I am used to a much more colourful mix of parties that take part in government, and that diversity makes it easier that issues of all kind can be at least addressed, and the rise of smaller parties does force the big parties to evaluate their programs an add issues that were formally only addressed by some of the small parties.

In the US it looks as if there are two big camps that mostly seem to walk on diametrally different paths and a lot of things just get ignored for a long time, until they can't be ignored anymore, although it seems to take far longer than in a more varied party environment.
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Post by McLewis Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:02 am

Well the US has many different political parties that span the political and ideological spectrum...it's just that the Democratic and Republican parties are the most dominant and traditionally accepted when it comes to running for political positions.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:54 am

rwo power wrote:One thing that always puzzles me a lot - why are there only two parties in the US that have part in governing?

Being from Germany, I am used to a much more colourful mix of parties that take part in government, and that diversity makes it easier that issues of all kind can be at least addressed, and the rise of smaller parties does force the big parties to evaluate their programs an add issues that were formally only addressed by some of the small parties.

In the US it looks as if there are two big camps that mostly seem to walk on diametrally different paths and a lot of things just get ignored for a long time, until they can't be ignored anymore, although it seems to take far longer than in a more varied party environment.


The presidential system invariably tends towards bipartydism. When you have a "winner takes all" system eventually 2 broad options will develop that have the likeliest chance to win. In Europe most democracies are parliamentary so smaller parties can be part of the governing power through coalitions. If the US had a parliamentary system the Republican party would probably be a coalition of the libertarians, the religious right, & the conservatives instead, for instance.
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Post by gb Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:57 pm

RedOranje wrote:
gb wrote:I wish Obama would just FDR this presidential race. I can't stand to see any of these buffoons(Rep. and Dem.) in office.
Literally impossible given the constitutional amendment passed (as a direct result of FDR, actually).

Bro chill. No need to take everything so literal. It was just a jab at the current slate of candidates.
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Post by gb Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
rwo power wrote:One thing that always puzzles me a lot - why are there only two parties in the US that have part in governing?

Being from Germany, I am used to a much more colourful mix of parties that take part in government, and that diversity makes it easier that issues of all kind can be at least addressed, and the rise of smaller parties does force the big parties to evaluate their programs an add issues that were formally only addressed by some of the small parties.

In the US it looks as if there are two big camps that mostly seem to walk on diametrally different paths and a lot of things just get ignored for a long time, until they can't be ignored anymore, although it seems to take far longer than in a more varied party environment.


The presidential system invariably tends towards bipartydism. When you have a "winner takes all" system eventually 2 broad options will develop that have the likeliest chance to win. In Europe most democracies are parliamentary so smaller parties can be part of the governing power through coalitions. If the US had a parliamentary system the Republican party would probably be a coalition of the libertarians, the religious right, & the conservatives instead, for instance.

Exactly BC. It's the type of government that decides the party system. A democracy or republic style of government will always form a two-party system (sometimes a third party develops).
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:23 pm

For the US the big "problem" is the electoral system, meaning that taking a state by 51% is enough. It's idiotic and means you can be president with a minority of the vote.

But little anachronisms like that exist in most democracies, and it made a lot of sense, when the federal government was a lot weaker and it was more a coalition of the member states than a coherent nation.
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Post by CBarca Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:19 pm

@Rwo, it's really been answered but just to be thorough and clear here, this is explained perfectly by the principle (though it is called a law as it is so widely accepted) Duverger's Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

Plurality rule elections structured within single-member districts tend to favor a two-party system.

@gb--The electoral system determines the party system. Again, Duverger's Law. Which is just a technical term for what has already been explained.
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Post by rwo power Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:55 am

Thanks for all the elaborate replies! :bow:
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Post by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:08 pm

Looking more and more like Biden is going to make a run of it.

US Presidential Race - Page 5 6fe

Good guy I'd vote for him over Hillary.

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Post by FennecFox7 Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:43 am

Bernie sanders was injected by the republicans to split the Hilliary vote. I mean no one in their right mind would vote for jeb bush or donald trump. The same thing happened to beckermann - al gore
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Post by RealGunner Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:06 pm

Is that serious?
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Post by RedOranje Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:30 pm

No, it's not.
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Post by Cruijf Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:07 am

Anyone watching the GOP debate right now? Can't believe one of these clowns is gonna be running for president Laughing
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Post by RealGunner Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:10 am

was reading it on twitter


Thought it was a failed attempt at stand up comedy

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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:37 am

Can't win at that game IMHO, if you're not insane, you don't get by the Tea Party block in the primaries, but if you get insane enough to get their votes, it'll kill your chances in the presidential election. Republicans need to stop pandering to those insane extremists, but they won't, because it's easy votes for scumbags with no conscience like Trump, Gyndal, or any of them, basically, any of them.
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Post by RedOranje Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:08 pm

The Tea Party has a large enough base within the Republican Party at this point that if a candidate does not play to their specific desires enough to ensure they don't go full-third party, it could well kill any Republican chance at a presidency (and, more catastrophically for them, a Congressional majority) for several political cycles. The Republicans have backed themselves into a very precarious corner by putting up with the Tea Party and letting it gain influence in the past decade.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:16 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:Can't win at that game IMHO, if you're not insane, you don't get by the Tea Party block in the primaries, but if you get insane enough to get their votes, it'll kill your chances in the presidential election. Republicans need to stop pandering to those insane extremists, but they won't, because it's easy votes for scumbags with no conscience like Trump, Gyndal, or any of them, basically, any of them.


Republican leadership in 2012 aftermath election autopsy: we need to become more inclusive to hispanics, decrease number of debates so we don't kill each other off prior to the general election, and not let wackos enter the race that paint the entire party on a bad light

2015 reality: Donald Trump is the leader, far to the right of any of the 2012 candidates on issues such building walls and women's rights

I will say, however, that Trump suppported Obamacare and yesterday was the only one to defend a progressive tax (and was in fact arguing for more taxation on the rich). So clearly he has some ability to gain independents' votes if he's willing to take a more central position.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:25 am

RedOranje wrote:The Tea Party has a large enough base within the Republican Party at this point that if a candidate does not play to their specific desires enough to ensure they don't go full-third party, it could well kill any Republican chance at a presidency (and, more catastrophically for them, a Congressional majority) for several political cycles. The Republicans have backed themselves into a very precarious corner by putting up with the Tea Party and letting it gain influence in the past decade.


Yes. Because they wanted those juicy extremist votes so they wouldn't have to adopt moderate stances.
All they can do now is call the Tea Party's bluff, ignore them, let them go third party, lose one or two elections, wait for the Tea Party... Party? to marginalize itself, and scoop up the disappointed voters that don't want to waste their vote on a third party, and they might even get back to where they started.

Or they someohow manage to win an election now, and whoever wins gets slaughtered by the media because he'll need to go back on at least half his campaign promises to those weirdos.

Also what BC said.
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Post by McLewis Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:50 pm

Everyone on the right falling over themselves to laud Carly Fiorina Laughing

She's as crazy as any of them and this debate once again proved it. There's also the small problem of her not actually having an organized campaign put together as well. Apparently, all of her noteriety is powered specifically by her TV appearances. There is literally nothing else behind that right now so while she is no doubt the darling of the debate, she couldn't be further away from being a true candidate.

Ben Carson is simply too timid for most conservatives I think to take seriously, despite his good polling numbers. Chris Christie is on the other end of that spectrum entirely. I think Rand Paul had a solid debate by it's own standards. John Kasich probably did well too. Not sure about Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio though. I don't think they gained anything from this.

And then there's Trump, who was again exposed for his lack of political knowledge. It won't hurt him much, but I think it's got some of his supporters a little nervous, especially considering he still likes to resort to personal insults when backed in a corner.
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Post by iftikhar Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:58 pm

Can you guys tell me what made the Tea Party so influential (I couldn't make myself to use the word 'popular')??? I have very sketchy idea about them. What I have read about them seems to polar opposite to my view of contemporary USA society. I can't understand how such a hardcore right-wing (almost revisionist) group thrive in a multicultural society. So what happened in last 6-7 years that has fueled their rise.
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