UK 2015 Elections

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Post by RealGunner Sat May 09, 2015 9:02 pm

Hundreds protest outside Prime Minister's residence a day after UK election

http://mashable.com/2015/05/09/anti-government-protesters-uk/?utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29&utm_cid=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Laughing


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Post by rwo power Sun May 10, 2015 1:19 am

@halamadrid2 wrote:UK use a system called first past the post were the candidate with the most votes in a constituency is voted in as the winner.
Out of curiousity - is the technique of "gerrymandering" still used to get favourable outcomes, too?

(In Germany, we have a combination of direct mandates and proportional representation as every voter has two votes - first vote goes to a direct candidate and second vote goes to a party and counts for the proportional representation.)
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Post by Forza Sun May 10, 2015 4:12 am

I had to look up "gerrymandering". At least where I live, there isn't manipulation of the geographic borders of each electorate to favour one party or the other, although the borders are changed every election due to population growth. What does occur is "pork-barrelling", which is promising to spend money in electorates which are not safe in the hopes of winning or retaining that electorate. The by-product of this is that people living in safe seats don't get much money invested in their communities.
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Post by halamadrid2 Sun May 10, 2015 6:56 am

@rwo power wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:UK use a system called first past the post were the candidate with the most votes in a constituency is voted in as the winner.
Out of curiousity - is the technique of "gerrymandering" still used to get favourable outcomes, too?

(In Germany, we have a combination of direct mandates and proportional representation as every voter has two votes - first vote goes to a direct candidate and second vote goes to a party and counts for the proportional representation.)


No we do not have that here. Thank god thats sounds like outright cheating.

It is simple here really. We have a few hundered constituencies (500?). There are different populations in each constituency usually around 100000-500000 with some MPs from different parties running against eachother. There are areas were there are certain ethnicities predominantly that would only vote for one party no matter what any other party says these are "safe seats" the MPs don't even need to campaign there. Then when people vote it's going to become a two horse race between the two biggest parties so the winner encourages voters to vote for anyone but the second placed MP to peel away voters from them and ensure they win.

Labour and Conservatives do that alot. For example in constituencies were Labour are more confident they'll win but with the conservative MP hot behind their heals they will try to convince voters who don't want to vote for labour to vote for lib dems instead for whatever reason they give, and with the lib dem MP only getting a few thousands votes, the gain in votes won't really matter because they will be so far behind the other two it won't matter so instead of votinf conservatives to give them the few additional votes to win the votes go to a useless  party which will never win essentially wasting votes and so labour can ensure they'll win that way

Not illegal but really dirty although they aren't forcing it upon anyone
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Post by iftikhar Sun May 10, 2015 9:36 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32601281

I think a Proportional Representation system would led to a Conservative & Labor grand coalition (something Germany had few years ago) rather than giving a free-reign to the Conservatives.

Also, the stunning performances of UKIP would have forced the big two parties at address issues UKIP is propagating/manipulating.

We have the same (FPTP) system in Bangladesh and we know it sucks big time.
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Post by rwo power Sun May 10, 2015 2:52 pm

@Forza & Hala - Thx!

@hala: I remembered this gerrymandering stuff from my English classes, and there was a time in the past when they actually used that to get more favorable results.

Aren't people complaining about the current voting system as it actually goes against the "will of the population" by not representing them properly?

In Germany we recently had a "Verfassungsbeschwerde"  (=constitutional complaint) as the voting of direct candidates undermined the proper proportions due to some parties getting "Überhangsmandate" (=excess mandates), where they won more direct candidates than they were due to the proportions, so the voting system had to be reformed a bit so that no party gets an unfair advantage by having the more popular candidates in the constituencies (?).

What would happen if a party like UKIP who didn't get representated according to the number of votes files a constitutional complaint - or is that not possible in the UK?
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Post by DuringTheWar Sun May 10, 2015 7:40 pm

@RealGunner wrote:What's next for UKIP now DTW?


Farage said UKIP will target working class voters. It's interesting they did well among working class in traditional labour voting areas. Saw an infographic recently that the majority of kippers agree with government redistribution of income, which surprised me actually. They have tapped into the "left behind" labour voters.
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Post by DuringTheWar Sun May 10, 2015 7:43 pm

Hilarious little interchange between Michael heseltine and Alex salmond discussing who would be more impotent in EU between UK and an "independent" Scotland back in 1992... From 8:10 onwards

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Post by halamadrid2 Mon May 11, 2015 3:17 pm

@rwo power wrote:@Forza & Hala - Thx!

@hala: I remembered this gerrymandering stuff from my English classes, and there was a time in the past when they actually used that to get more favorable results.

Aren't people complaining about the current voting system as it actually goes against the "will of the population" by not representing them properly?

In Germany we recently had a "Verfassungsbeschwerde"  (=constitutional complaint) as the voting of direct candidates undermined the proper proportions due to some parties getting "Überhangsmandate" (=excess mandates), where they won more direct candidates than they were due to the proportions, so the voting system had to be reformed a bit so that no party gets an unfair advantage by having the more popular candidates in the constituencies (?).

What would happen if a party like UKIP who didn't get representated according to the number of votes files a constitutional complaint - or is that not possible in the UK?

Yes there have been alot of complaints about the current voting systems and there are debates going on right now especially since Ukip who got over 3 million votes only got 1 seat in the parliament whereas LibDem who got 2.5 milliom votes got 8 seats. Ukip want to change it to proportional representation but this is a system all parties agreed on decades ago so they can't file a complaint as it was not brought ipon them against their will. I don't think the population have a say in what system to be used. As far as we are concerned its simple, we want Labour we all vote labour in all constituencies. Its not only about how many seats though it's also about what kind of work they do in they respective constituencies. Probably why Farage failed to get his seay although people had hopped on the Ukip hype train. The mp there was probably very popular with the locals

Regarding gerrymandering I don't think the geographical areas changes at all. Counties might widen/shrink as the council pleases which it always does here in Birmingham but not constituencies. There are clear signs to separate them

I think most people wants Germany's voting system but there are concerns small parties with extreme views might gain from that so the safest system right now is the UK one. I couldn't live with BNP having a single seat in the parliament let alone alot of them of this system wasn't used. Last election BNP was the UKIP of that election with more extreme views (although Ukip mps have a hard time disguising theirs) now they are ancient history all because of the voting sysyem we use which means they would've needed to maintain that popularity for over 5 years to gain more support. A hard feat
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Post by rwo power Mon May 11, 2015 3:23 pm

Well, the German system blocks tiny fringe parties, too, as we have a "5% hurdle", that is, parties that get less than 5% of the votes don't get a seat in the Bundestag, unless they have candidates who win their direct mandate (these always get a seat).
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon May 11, 2015 3:58 pm

You'd be surprised how popular you'd be the moment you uttered the words "out of EU" Laughing


Last edited by halamadrid2 on Mon May 11, 2015 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Abramovich Mon May 11, 2015 6:18 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:
@rwo power wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:UK use a system called first past the post were the candidate with the most votes in a constituency is voted in as the winner.
Out of curiousity - is the technique of "gerrymandering" still used to get favourable outcomes, too?

(In Germany, we have a combination of direct mandates and proportional representation as every voter has two votes - first vote goes to a direct candidate and second vote goes to a party and counts for the proportional representation.)


No we do not have that here. Thank god thats sounds like outright cheating.

It is simple here really. We have a few hundered constituencies (500?). There are different populations in each constituency usually around 100000-500000 with some MPs from different parties running against eachother. There are areas were there are certain ethnicities predominantly that would only vote for one party no matter what any other party says these are "safe seats" the MPs don't even need to campaign there. Then when people vote it's going to become a two horse race between the two biggest parties so the winner encourages voters to vote for anyone but the second placed MP to peel away voters from them and ensure they win.

Labour and Conservatives do that alot. For example in constituencies were Labour are more confident they'll win but with the conservative MP hot behind their heals they will try to convince voters who don't want to vote for labour to vote for lib dems instead for whatever reason they give, and with the lib dem MP only getting a few thousands votes, the gain in votes won't really matter because they will be so far behind the other two it won't matter so instead of votinf conservatives to give them the few additional votes to win the votes go to a useless  party which will never win essentially wasting votes and so labour can ensure they'll win that way

Not illegal but really dirty although they aren't forcing it upon anyone


Wait what you are actually English?? Never knew that..
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Post by RealGunner Mon May 11, 2015 6:54 pm

Farage stays as UKIP leader after resignation rejected

Well, Expect UKIP to get 2-3 seats max in 2020 as well if he remains. UKIP could have tempted unhappy Labour and Lib Dem voters, but it's a wasted opportunity with Farage staying.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 11, 2015 6:55 pm

" Everyone resigns "

Farage: lol jk m8.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon May 11, 2015 7:24 pm

https://i.servimg.com/u/f19/17/38/26/76/image14.jpg
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon May 11, 2015 9:01 pm

The cult is back in the business with their leader :bow:

Why did he not get a seat ffs. The prime minister's questions would've been epic

Cameron vs the new labour leader vs Farage shouting from the back of the hall where he is sitting squashed between two fat ladies
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Post by RealGunner Mon May 11, 2015 9:02 pm

Best not be David Milliband.

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Post by Art Morte Mon May 11, 2015 9:17 pm

UKIP should have sorted it out before the election that is the party going to accept his resignation in the very possible case he doesn't win his seat. Now it looks like he's going back on his word, a real PR howler. Then again, it's the UKIP, so PR howlers come as no surprise.

Mock the Week should be happy, though, I was feeling really sorry for them when Miliband, Clegg and Farage were gone in one go. At least they got Farage back.
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Post by halamadrid2 Mon May 11, 2015 9:18 pm

David should've been the labour leader after Gordon Brown. I think he is capable of handling the "image" of labour better than his brother. I don't know whether he is good in terms of removing the stain from their last stint though, if I remember correctly he was very much part of that failed government but I think people view Ed Balls in the worst lights so him losing his seat was a blessing in disguise for Labour. David admitting labour failed would secure him almost 90% of the votes labour lost because Ed couldn't admit it

Also that whole burger incident rofl dude was so awkward in public. David would be alot more popular. Heard Yvett wants to run for leadership. LORD HAVE MERCY
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue May 12, 2015 12:32 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:

Also that whole burger incident rofl dude was so awkward in public.


Something about this in particular just makes me laugh


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Post by Kaladin Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:22 pm

What is this i'm hearing about Cameron and a dead pig lol
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