Paris: Charlie Hebdo shooting

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Post by Nishankly Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:37 pm

As I typed that post, now Vienna. I cannot disembed this from a religion or its grassroot teachings to these "mad men" who will kill innocents kids in a school in Pakistan or behead a priest in France for the same belief. I hope you guys can explain why I should remove this from religion and this isn't about defending the values of the religion, the world wants solutions to this problem, not explanations.

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Post by Adit Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:06 pm

Must be some paid off mercenaries who are ready to die apparently.

They are ready to die because they are promised better life than this elsewhere.
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Post by Myesyats Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:11 pm

If you want some tips pm me

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Post by Art Morte Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:18 pm

^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.
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Post by Blue Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:51 pm

@Nishankly wrote:As I typed that post, now Vienna. I cannot disembed this from a religion or its grassroot teachings to these "mad men" who will kill innocents kids in a school in Pakistan or behead a priest in France for the same belief. I hope you guys can explain why I should remove this from religion and this isn't about defending the values of the religion, the world wants solutions to this problem, not explanations.


Solutions?

Well in the US there is good study on mass shooting, and how media incite it. When the media focuses on the shooter and their manifesto(motivation) more cases of it follows in the near future. The copycat phenomenon.

Same principals follows on terrorism, the more you focus on the motivation the more attacks follows in the near future. In this case it is on a much larger scale since you link it to their religion.

The focus should be on the devastation and hurt the act has created, and this will lead to solidarity against violence.
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Post by Nishankly Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:54 pm

@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Yet Myeyes's map shows the deepest parts as Northern Ireland, Crimea, Basque, Macedonia/Kosovo? and Corsica, I am sure brown people are causing that Laughing
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Post by Warrior Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:11 pm

Well there's Northern Ireland, Euskadi and the small part of Maghreb is all covered in red. Probably this map takes into account all attacks since 50 years or something.

300 km from my home, in the province's capital city, some nerd started slashing random people with a katana on Halloween night. 2 deaths and several injured. Motive is not religious, just a mad man. Supposedly since many years his dream was to commit mass murder. But i wonder how much the teacher's beheading influenced him. I notice these mediatized terrorist attacks always come in bunch. Cowards get motivated by other cowards acting. Like dominos

What sucks the most is nothing anybody can do about it. Tomorrow it can be by neighbor who reads violent news, watch a couple of violent videos, realizes the world is a mess, things are not going well at home and at work, his mind starts derailing... then who knows what he could do
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Post by Babun Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:55 am

Again, I'm missing the clear distancing of the muslim leaders in Europe (imams or mullahs as such) from terror and their condemnation of the crime.
It's enough to say: "These people are criminals and in no way represent our religion. Our sincere condolences go to the victims and their families."
I expect this 100% because it's their job and if they don't do even that then the fish rots from the head down.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:16 am

@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.
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Post by Babun Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:16 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.

The perpetrator was an Albanian born in Vienna. He was radicalized locally, in Austria. It means the problem aren't the refugees as the far right wants people to believe because they live off the delusions but consists of two components:
1. Muslim structures like mosques which have radical groupings hidden in them which seek
2. Vulnerable youth, commonly referred to as losers, who are easy to manipulate.
Like all other radical organizations they need money and connections to thrive. The money flows to them from the Saudis and Turkey. First measure would be to ask all of the moslem institutions to reveal their checkbooks. Then omit or close any of them which are sponsored from the oversees. Then fight the backlash and to support the inland moslem groups who are fed up with the radical terrorists and let them take over the control. Without the gouvernment intervention, the infrastructure cannot be broken, due to rebels to the idea being targeted by the islamists.
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Post by Adit Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:45 am

I could understand radical imams and mosques in Muslim majority countries , it happens by default not the communities problem.

But I could never understand how imams and mosques in western countries fall into the hands of extremists. One mosque in the hands of extremist is one too many. I posted that video of a Canadian imam glorifying the terrorist.

I really hope for the sake of humanity people come out of denial and see the structural issue. There is clear radicalization going on.
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Post by Art Morte Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:56 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:06 pm

It's time for Europe to look into (and possibly ban) foreign funding in religious institutions. They can't allow centers for radicalization to continue to be protected.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:08 pm

@Babun wrote:Again, I'm missing the clear distancing of the muslim leaders in Europe (imams or mullahs as such) from terror and their condemnation of the crime.
It's enough to say: "These people are criminals and in no way represent our religion. Our sincere condolences go to the victims and their families."
I expect this 100% because it's their job and if they don't do even that then the fish rots from the head down.

At the end of the day, the sad truth is that all politics is local. They won't share a view so unpopular within their own countries.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:18 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.



Absolute nonsense, just because some extremist shoots a few people doesn't mean societies are failing

If anything, it means law enforcement agencies are failing despite having been handed massive power

German society is better than it ever was, generally, even if it's getting worse again recently by anti-immigration sentiment
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Post by Babun Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:27 pm

Here, proof that inland moslems exist who want to change the existing BS mosque funding system:
https://twitter.com/Besser_Deniz/status/1323610941058093058

They need gouvernment support. Merkel and co. should stop ignoring the problem.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/palestinian-saves-austrian-policeman-in-vienna-attack/2030645

Muslim Palestinian man in Austria risks life to save police officer
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Post by Nishankly Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:03 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:^ A small price to pay for all the wonderful benefits of multiculturalism, imo.


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.



It's failing at the lowest level where poverty is mixed with cultural clashes for helpless people who do not change based on fixed beliefs and lack of support. And at the lowest level societies fail regardless of immigration or not.

The story is extremely different starting with the lower middle and upper financial classes who have integrated, it works out amazingly and is beautiful to witness and experience it on a daily basis. I doubt you'll ever get to see that anyways with your location and information gathering based on news to label all societies while sitting within a homogenous one.
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Post by Art Morte Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:58 pm

@Nishankly wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:
@VivaStPauli wrote:


Are you literally retarded? I hope you're just trying to provoke us.
Do you think the Irish or Corsican separatists are foreigners?



I agree with Babun, though.


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.



It's failing at the lowest level where poverty is mixed with cultural clashes for helpless people who do not change based on fixed beliefs and lack of support. And at the lowest level societies fail regardless of immigration or not.

The story is extremely different starting with the lower middle and upper financial classes who have integrated, it works out amazingly and is beautiful to witness and experience it on a daily basis. I doubt you'll ever get to see that anyways with your location and information gathering based on news to label all societies while sitting within a homogenous one.


The more prosperity, the easier it is for successful integration. But no such all-encompassing prosperity exist. And that lower level of socio-economical classes make up a big chunk of societies. In multicultural and multiracial societies the problems stemming from that lower socio-economical class seem to magnify. What makes up for it? Middle and upper classes making for beautiful-to-witness stuff? Sure, there are plenty of success stories of minorities there, but what makes them more beautiful than success stories of majority representatives?

Also, when multicultural and multiracial societies are failing at the lowest level in a way that results in continuous terrorist attacks that kill innocent people, I don't see what about those upper class beautiful-to-witness integration stories could make up for that even remotely.

I believe humans have an intrinsic need to be among people they recognise as their own. That is what helped primitive tribes to survive tens of thousands of years ago and that is why nations have been born and molded later on. In peaceful and prosperous times you can do more mixing of tribes without trouble, but there's a limit. And we've broken that limit.
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Post by Babun Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:41 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.



It's failing at the lowest level where poverty is mixed with cultural clashes for helpless people who do not change based on fixed beliefs and lack of support. And at the lowest level societies fail regardless of immigration or not.

The story is extremely different starting with the lower middle and upper financial classes who have integrated, it works out amazingly and is beautiful to witness and experience it on a daily basis. I doubt you'll ever get to see that anyways with your location and information gathering based on news to label all societies while sitting within a homogenous one.


The more prosperity, the easier it is for successful integration. But no such all-encompassing prosperity exist. And that lower level of socio-economical classes make up a big chunk of societies. In multicultural and multiracial societies the problems stemming from that lower socio-economical class seem to magnify. What makes up for it? Middle and upper classes making for beautiful-to-witness stuff? Sure, there are plenty of success stories of minorities there, but what makes them more beautiful than success stories of majority representatives?

Also, when multicultural and multiracial societies are failing at the lowest level in a way that results in continuous terrorist attacks that kill innocent people, I don't see what about those upper class beautiful-to-witness integration stories could make up for that even remotely.

I believe humans have an intrinsic need to be among people they recognise as their own. That is what helped primitive tribes to survive tens of thousands of years ago and that is why nations have been born and molded later on. In peaceful and prosperous times you can do more mixing of tribes without trouble, but there's a limit. And we've broken that limit.

Those terrorist attacks etc. might look like a big deal but in reality not even 100 people died in a year. Any sickness or corona for example is worse. What I mean is it might look like a huge deal but it isn't. I'm not being inhuman, just calling it as it is. The problem can be addressed (extremism in islam). As long as Macron ad Co. do their jobs Turks, Arabs or whoever won't have a business to do in Europe in radicalising youths. You sound like a typical rightwing activist who never left the compfy nest. The problems usually get bigger the bigger a country is, even if it is monocultural. It's in the nature of oraganizational difficulties. A country like Finnland is no example for a 80 million or a 320 million state.
Poland, Hungary and Belarus are showing the brown side (which is not chocolate) of the monoculture you speak about Laughing
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Post by Art Morte Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:55 pm

1. Why would you think it's only the fatality numbers that matter? Don't you think that these attacks change the mentality, atmosphere in places like Paris, London and Vienna? I'd hate to live in a city where there's always this realistic threat of a terrorist attack hanging in the air.

2. Even if the fatality numbers are not in the thousands, should people simply tolerate terrorism deaths? What's the threshold to say "okay, this is not acceptable any more"? To me it's way below 100 a year.

3. Your last sentence about "the brown side" doesn't make sense to me, so pls explain.
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Post by Babun Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:12 pm

@Art Morte wrote:1. Why would you think it's only the fatality numbers that matter? Don't you think that these attacks change the mentality, atmosphere in places like Paris, London and Vienna? I'd hate to live in a city where there's always this realistic threat of a terrorist attack hanging in the air.

There're measures taken to prevent future outbreaks.
@Art Morte wrote:
2. Even if the fatality numbers are not in the thousands, should people simply tolerate terrorism deaths? What's the threshold to say "okay, this is not acceptable any more"? To me it's way below 100 a year.
Terrorism isn't tolerated, more like condemned everywhere. Where did you get that from? My intention behind the "below 100" wasn't relativation, I wanted to show the problem is blown out of proportion. There're measures to curb the extremism. The right people are about to make policies to curb the rise of extremism.
@Art Morte wrote:
3. Your last sentence about "the brown side" doesn't make sense to me, so pls explain.
Stinky brown is the equivalent of shit, meant as the opposite to the chocolate side (the good side everyone wants to show). Those countries are concentrated inwards that they're out of touch with their neighbours and the world. Yes, they go backwards. I like the new EU financial penalty policy which was ratificated this month.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/inf_20_1687

Poland will be asked to prove the judicative is independent otherwise EU money will be cut by a large margin, as the next step, Poland might be expelled from the EU alltogether.
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Post by Art Morte Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:10 pm

"Measures are being taken" to prevent future terrorist attacks, well that's a strong argument if I've ever heard one, looks like my doubts about multicultural & multiracial societies were totally unfounded, then, especially since these measures will be taken by "the right people", gosh, such luck that we've got the right people on the case. Problem solved.

I don't agree with a lot of stuff that's been going on in Poland or Hungary lately (Belarus has been a lost cause for ages), but it's not lack of multiculturalism that's holding them back.
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Post by Babun Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:20 am

@Art Morte wrote:"Measures are being taken" to prevent future terrorist attacks, well that's a strong argument if I've ever heard one, looks like my doubts about multicultural & multiracial societies were totally unfounded, then, especially since these measures will be taken by "the right people", gosh, such luck that we've got the right people on the case. Problem solved.

I don't agree with a lot of stuff that's been going on in Poland or Hungary lately (Belarus has been a lost cause for ages), but it's not lack of multiculturalism that's holding them back.

Nope, a perfect example much deeper problems like slow and painful introduction of a dictatorship (Poland )find place in an absolutely monocultural states which are far worse than some lunatics freaking out about some pictures. The problems aren't mono- or multicultural but structural. Europe has to cut Middle East hand here so they can't reach and radicalize vulnurable youth anymore. That's doable if the politicians can be arsed.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:22 pm

The thing is, you'll always have the odd crime in an open society. No "solution" to terrorism would be worth the amount of freedom and liberty we'd sacrifice for it.
So yeah Terrorism is horrible, and it's victims are to be respected, and mourned, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on pluralism and liberty. In fact, I posit, following Art Morte's advice would mean that the terrorists have won.
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Post by Nishankly Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:37 am

@Art Morte wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Art Morte wrote:


Multicultural and multiracial societies in Europe and NA are failing and I see nothing in the horizon that would reverse the trend, in fact it's been getting steadily worse. My previous comment was an obviously sarcastic remark on yet another terrorist attack, but this one is my serious belief.



It's failing at the lowest level where poverty is mixed with cultural clashes for helpless people who do not change based on fixed beliefs and lack of support. And at the lowest level societies fail regardless of immigration or not.

The story is extremely different starting with the lower middle and upper financial classes who have integrated, it works out amazingly and is beautiful to witness and experience it on a daily basis. I doubt you'll ever get to see that anyways with your location and information gathering based on news to label all societies while sitting within a homogenous one.


I believe humans have an intrinsic need to be among people they recognise as their own. That is what helped primitive tribes to survive tens of thousands of years ago and that is why nations have been born and molded later on. In peaceful and prosperous times you can do more mixing of tribes without trouble, but there's a limit. And we've broken that limit.


I am extremely sorry you have been brought up in that environment. Especially the fact you choose to bifurcate humans.
I am as human as you Art as are innocent billions but you like to stop at hundreds, your intrinsic need to relate to a white person doesn't make us less human. If you don't realize this in 2020 and use caveman arguments to justify yourself and divide people who bleed the same blood, I don't know what to say.

It's religion nothing else. We need to eradicate this virus. US is winning urban cities with 10-15% immgrants while people from irrelevant EU countries crib about how billions can't integrate.
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