Re: Paris: Charlie Hebdo shooting

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:39 am

RedOranje wrote:
guest_07 wrote:
how can you differentiate between westerner & hypocrisy?

the difference is almost close to zero

westerner also have a sense of humour

by sportsczy Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:39 am

sportsczy wrote:Dieudonne was arrested because he posted statements that showed that he clearly advocated the acts of the terrorists this past weekend... you see, that's what happens when terrorists commit these crimes: you get things like the Patriot Act in the US and the current/future actions of the French government. Namely, since France officially declared war on all Islamist extremists (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102326922), then any French citizen, resident or person on french territory who advocates or sympathizes (alleged or proven) with these groups can be incarcerated for questioning... their rights become suspended.

If you become an official enemy of war, a whole new set of rules apply... that's one of the consequences for these Islamic extremists now. France has deployed 10K troops over the past 5 days and they are planning on deploying another 20k in the next month apparently. I think we're going to round up anyone that's affiliated with Islamic extremism, near and far, and throw them in prison... basically the creation of a French version of Gitmo somewhere.

This is why Dieudonne was arrested... and that's what will be facing people. A few innocents will get caught up unfortunately. But that's the consequence of any war.

by sportsczy Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:41 am

guest_07 wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
guest_07 wrote:
how can you differentiate between westerner & hypocrisy?

the difference is almost close to zero

westerner also have a sense of humour

You're really enjoying this western style message board too... for a western critic, you sure enjoy our freedom of expression.

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:48 am

sportsczy wrote:
guest_07 wrote:
RedOranje wrote:

westerner also have a sense of humour
You're really enjoying this western style message board too... for a western critic, you sure enjoy our freedom of expression.

to me, whatever the westerner did, i still can accept it

but what about others that too sensitive

i think you should respect this kind of group also

by DeletedUser#1 Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:35 am

guest_07 wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
guest_07 wrote:

westerner also have a sense of humour
You're really enjoying this western style message board too... for a western critic, you sure enjoy our freedom of expression.

to me, whatever the westerner did, i still can accept it

but what about others that too sensitive

i think you should respect this kind of group also

And why? If you're a Democrat, do you always respect the Republicans even if they have awful out-dated crap like gun stuff and abortion ?

Do you respect Real Madrid fans when you call Ronaldo "Penaldo" and it hurt their feelings ?

Yes or No...

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:44 am

Natalie Portman wrote:
guest_07 wrote:
sportsczy wrote: You're really enjoying this western style message board too... for a western critic, you sure enjoy our freedom of expression.

to me, whatever the westerner did, i still can accept it

but what about others that too sensitive

i think you should respect this kind of group also

And why? If you're a Democrat, do you always respect the Republicans even if they have awful out-dated crap like gun stuff and abortion ?

Do you respect Real Madrid fans when you call Ronaldo "Penaldo" and it hurt their feelings ?

Yes or No...

YES.............you have to respect others no matter what

respect them doesn't mean you can't criticize them

but criticize them with a proper manner

then all will be happy

by sportsczy Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:06 am

I'm done with this topic. I can actually feel my brain cells dying as i read this stuff Laughing

All i can say is that i respect your beliefs and your laws... but your laws apply to your country, not mine. In France, the laws allow for certain things and they don't allow for others. You don't like it, too bad... i don't really care Laughing

GTFO if you don't like it here. But if you want to live in France or visit here, you just need to deal with it OR, if you have a grievance, you need to do it within the law. That simple. The rest is irrelevant to me.

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:21 am

sportsczy wrote:I'm done with this topic. I can actually feel my brain cells dying as i read this stuff

All i can say is that i respect your beliefs and your laws... but your laws apply to your country, not mine. In France, the laws allow for certain things and they don't allow for others. You don't like it, too bad... i don't really care GTFO if you don't like it here. But if you want to live in France or visit here, you just need to deal with it OR, if you have a grievance, you need to do it within the law. That simple. The rest is irrelevant to me.

its ok to me

thanks for the debate

both have different view

by El Gunner Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:26 am

guest_07 wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:Just because we know that it causes idiots to commit crimes, it doesn't mean it's the root of the problem.

If there's a psychopath, frothing at the mouth, and muttering gibberish about how green M&Ms are the devil's staple food, does that really make it wrong to eat green M&Ms just so psychopaths don't kill you?

Seems to me that psychopath needs some downers, and a bit of therapy, and if it wasn't the green M&Ms he'd probably be murdering people for eating blue M&Ms, or for preferring skittles, because those are the candy of sin.

We can't just stop press freedom because some primitive hill people get upset by it.

you westerner still don't answer the question,

is so hard for westerner to criticize other religion without insulting or provoking?

why choose the method that others can't accept

if you want to criticize other religion, do the debate, that is one of the solution

And to what solution do debates on religion actually lead to?

People just throw a bunch of arguments and counter arguments and go on all day about it like we're doing now in this thread.

Point is, in a healthy debate, each party will recognise the other's points of view to a certain degree, but at the end, for whatever reason, each individual still believes what he wants to believe and isn't going to change his faith over a few hours of debating.

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:37 am

El Gunner wrote:
guest_07 wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:Just because we know that it causes idiots to commit crimes, it doesn't mean it's the root of the problem.

If there's a psychopath, frothing at the mouth, and muttering gibberish about how green M&Ms are the devil's staple food, does that really make it wrong to eat green M&Ms just so psychopaths don't kill you?

Seems to me that psychopath needs some downers, and a bit of therapy, and if it wasn't the green M&Ms he'd probably be murdering people for eating blue M&Ms, or for preferring skittles, because those are the candy of sin.

We can't just stop press freedom because some primitive hill people get upset by it.

you westerner still don't answer the question,

is so hard for westerner to criticize other religion without insulting or provoking?

why choose the method that others can't accept

if you want to criticize other religion, do the debate, that is one of the solution

And to what solution do debates on religion actually lead to?

People just throw a bunch of arguments and counter arguments and go on all day about it like we're doing now in this thread.

Point is, in a healthy debate, each party will recognise the other's points of view to a certain degree, but at the end, for whatever reason, each individual still believes what he wants to believe and isn't going to change his faith over a few hours of debating.

the understanding on some issue will become more clear after each debate

that should help

by rwo power Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:51 am

guest_07 wrote:the understanding on some issue will become more clear after each debate

that should help

At least as long the debate isn't held with heavy weapons that leave one of the sides dead...

by guest_07 Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:13 am

rwo power wrote:
guest_07 wrote:the understanding on some issue will become more clear after each debate

that should help
At least as long the debate isn't held with heavy weapons that leave one of the sides dead...

hopefully IS & La grande muette don't attend the debate in the same time

Laughing

by Mamad Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:12 am

Anyway the radical Islam has a precise identity : the Wahhabism.
A radical vision of Islam, the state religion in Saudi Arabia. Al-Qaeda was born from there, the " self-styled " Islamic state as well.
We cannot mention the fact that the West, in name of " pecunia non olet " and the principle of profit to reign on everything it plays dumb about the fact there are Saudits behind it . Of course it doesn't mean the Western must bomb Riad tomorrow , but it should make clear to these people, always messed (just seeing how it is organized their "state") that the situation cannot longer be tolerated.
I don't care if American fighter planes to bomb Saddam departed from Arabia,
the West can no longer afford to keep a foot in both camps in the name of capitalism and profit.
The West ( and unfortunately Europe is tied hands and feet because of Bush father and jr . and for other choices definitely not farsighted ) must assume own responsibilities.
The Saudi Arabia can't be considered anymore an ally of the West.

Great post. somebody please answer why is that US and France and west in general are all good with Saudi's ? you know Saudi's are the center of Radical Islam.

West doesn't want Radical Islamists gone. they want them to grow and they are helping it.

by sportsczy Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:13 pm

It all started with Iran and Hezbollah... they were the inaugural terrorist state and state-sponsored terrorist group. They branched into others too of course. They are Shia Extremists

It's only rational and normal that the wealthiest and largest Sunni nation in the region would combat Shia extremists by creating Sunni extremists to counter-balance them.

The US... well this is a battle that they'd rather not get involved in. Iran attacked the US and US interests openly while Saudi Arabia has made sure that they did not step on US toes. It's only normal that the US would get closer to the side that meets its national interest. At one time, Iran was the favored nation for the same reasons. But that ended. It's interesting that the US now feels that Saudi Arabia is becoming too extreme... so they are opening discussions with Iran to see how extreme the regime truly is (it's very extreme, but broke; they need the sanctions lifted so they have no choice but to talk to the US).

The bottom line is that the US doesn't get involved in anything unless its national interest warrants that it does. It lets the UN handle matters where national interest doesn't require direct intervention... and of course, the UN is useless.

We'd love radical Islamism to be gone... but it cannot happen while you have states with radical regimes and countries where radical views are mainstream. So it's better to have them stay occupied killing each other instead of focusing on the rest of the world.... and that's difficult. The rest of the world is getting sucked in.

Obama was naive to this unfortunately.

For the middle east's sake, i hope they realize that the greatest danger is to themselves. If the situation is so extreme that the West feels it needs to go in there and start wiping things out... it will. We're slowly inching towards this outcome.

by Pedram Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:08 pm

sportsczy wrote:It all started with Iran and Hezbollah... they were the inaugural terrorist state and state-sponsored terrorist group. They branched into others too of course. They are Shia Extremists

It's only rational and normal that the wealthiest and largest Sunni nation in the region would combat Shia extremists by creating Sunni extremists to counter-balance them.

What ? how did you came to the conclusion that the way to fight extremism is to add more extremism, how is that supposed the change the behavior of either side when your adding more fuel to fire ?

If you want to influence the behavior of such countries, you need to engage with them directly, have dialog and debate to see why they're doing this and then try to find a solution or a compromise.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:42 pm

That wasn't the doctrine of curbing extremism, that was the old, and cynical Cold War Era policy of giving your enemy a more immediate threat to face, so the Saudis were propped up to give the Shia Extremists a target closer to home.

Cynical, short-sited, and evil, but that's what they did. The West did, and does, a lot of dumb things, like arming the Taliban. Nobody is claiming the foreign policy is smart, I think.

by sportsczy Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:57 pm

It's not smart in the long term... but oil is such an immediate need and the repercussions of losing control of oil production is immediate. So the solutions for problems tend to focus on the short term as opposed to the long term. President Carter tried to distance himself from "the game" in the middle east... and we had an oil crisis that led to quasi-depression level economy in the US and the West in late 70s/ early 80s. It also allowed extremist religious groups to take power when they never should been allowed to.

Very unfortunate.

It will take a stroke of luck for things to change. You will need an enlightened leader to emerge in Iran and/or Saudi who is focused in progress and modernizing his country as opposed to maintaining power and stealing.

I personally think that things will need to completely blow up in the region before it gets better. The current environment is unsustainable and worsening.

by Mamad Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:53 pm

It started with what? Laughing

. i guess the reason women are treated like shit in Saudi is also because of Iran Laughing

. they can't even drive there ffs.

go back and read some history about Saudi and you will see what they were like when Iran was USA's number one ally in the region and Shah was running things.

i know it's hard to accept, but your governments don't give a flying **** about freedom or well being of other people. they do what they need to do in order to be more powerful even if it hurts other people and countries. it has been like that and it will be like that unfortunately.

You think west is against ISIS but in reality they send weapons for them. remember I'm the one who lives a few kilometers from ISIS not you. If it wasn't because of foreign support ISIS Could've been destroyed in one week. a small group of rapists and murderers can't do what they are doing without a huge support from Saudi's and west.

by VivaStPauli Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:12 pm

Most Western countries, sadly, have one set of ideals for dealing with domestic issues, and a whole other set for foreign relations.

Bloody Realpolitik screwing us all, never should've been involved in any of this shit. We could all live in a much more peaceful world if we hadn't screwed with Persia's (and later Iran's) internal affairs in the '60s and '70s.

Doesn't mean that Western values do not protect their citizens, courts of law work, and they - in large, exceptions do exist - are free from political mingling.

That's not something that will help anyone but the citizens of the Western democracies, though.

by RealGunner Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:26 pm

guest_07 wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:Just because we know that it causes idiots to commit crimes, it doesn't mean it's the root of the problem.

If there's a psychopath, frothing at the mouth, and muttering gibberish about how green M&Ms are the devil's staple food, does that really make it wrong to eat green M&Ms just so psychopaths don't kill you?

Seems to me that psychopath needs some downers, and a bit of therapy, and if it wasn't the green M&Ms he'd probably be murdering people for eating blue M&Ms, or for preferring skittles, because those are the candy of sin.

We can't just stop press freedom because some primitive hill people get upset by it.

you westerner still don't answer the question,

is so hard for westerner to criticize other religion without insulting or provoking?

why choose the method that others can't accept

if you want to criticize other religion, do the debate, that is one of the solution

What exactly do you mean by westerners? I am a westerner and so is BC but neither of us fits in your category. You have to be more specific.

Also, surely you can't be this naive to think that 'East' is the utopia for good manners. If there actually was freedom of speech in the eastern countries, then there would be thousands of people doing the same thing you accuse 'westerners' off. They are being suppressed with the fear of their lives otherwise they would be insulting or provoking in the same manner as you blame people in the west.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:23 pm

I don't think this is recent as there are no mentions to Charlie Hebdo, but it deserves to be posted.

by Dante Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:30 pm

guest_07 wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:Just because we know that it causes idiots to commit crimes, it doesn't mean it's the root of the problem.

If there's a psychopath, frothing at the mouth, and muttering gibberish about how green M&Ms are the devil's staple food, does that really make it wrong to eat green M&Ms just so psychopaths don't kill you?

Seems to me that psychopath needs some downers, and a bit of therapy, and if it wasn't the green M&Ms he'd probably be murdering people for eating blue M&Ms, or for preferring skittles, because those are the candy of sin.

We can't just stop press freedom because some primitive hill people get upset by it.

you westerner still don't answer the question,

is so hard for westerner to criticize other religion without insulting or provoking?

why choose the method that others can't accept

if you want to criticize other religion, do the debate, that is one of the solution

you easterner still don't understand the answer,

is so hard for easterner to accept westerner freedom without looking cartoons or jihading ?

why choose the method is westerner business , is no easterner business , if easterner can't accept look away and problem is no more , method is innocent , problem is easterner extremist happy tree friends brains

if you want to no feel bad with cartoons , do the don't look the cartoons , that is one of the solution

if easterner extremist want to kill for name of religion , do the suicide , is 100% success , that is also one of the solution

by Peccadillo Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:05 am

suicide is not permissible Islamically so you're fresh out of luck Dante Laughing

btw, pretty low to insult him because English isn't his first language.

by FennecFox7 Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:08 am

OK, I think no one is getting what I am saying. Because you all know I'm right!!

TELL ME, why do muslims get shit on and its ok, but someone makes one small joke about a jew and the angry retaliation for the satire is suddenly "justified"?

You guys are prejudiced to the bone to muslims, but are in love with jews. Just check the hamas thread for proof. The hypocrisy is sickening

by Peccadillo Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:13 am

+1 anti-Semitism or anti-ultraliberalism = social suicide.
anti-Islamism = congratulations you got the job.

by RealGunner Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:16 am

FennecFox7 wrote:OK, I think no one is getting what I am saying. Because you all know I'm right!!

TELL ME, why do muslims get shit on and its ok, but someone makes one small joke about a jew and the angry retaliation for the satire is suddenly "justified"?

You guys are prejudiced to the bone to muslims, but are in love with jews. Just check the hamas thread for proof. The hypocrisy is sickening

Because the west feels guilty for holocaust.

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