Paris: Charlie Hebdo shooting

http://www.leparisien.fr/grigny-91350/amedi-27-ans-rencontre-sarkozy-cet-apres-midi-15-07-2009-580211.php#xtref=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FVrYXHkWFZN

This is interesting. Coulibaly, the supermarket terrorist, was interviewed by Le Parisien in 2009 (link above). He was part of a program that was trying to get youth employed. He was 27 at the time and he talked about how he was training at the local Coca Cola plant... talks about his aspirations. He was scheduled to meet Sarkozy too.

From that... he became radicalized and now went on a rampage.

Very very interesting.

The terrorists called BFM this morning and they were just allowed to air his interview. He says: "i have been sent by Al Qaeda in Yemen."

You guys need to go on BFM and listen wow.

Coulibaly called too and it is going to be aired soon.

Coulibaly says he's been sent by ISIS..... wow. He also says that he's coordinating with his Al Qaeda brothers.

good lord.

Nice update Sport

Can't believe how they were let off by French police after it was known amongst french intelligence that they went to Yemem to attend training coirse by AlQaeda. Major failure by the french intelligence officers. That guy inside that abandoned building is a hero though

Actually listened to CNN who had a former CIA director on their set...  he said that there are thousands of people that have gone from Europe and the US to join extremists and that it's impossible to keep track of them regularly. Don't have the resource. He literally said: "It's not every difficult. It's impossible."

he estimated 2000 such people in France.

He also said that other European countries and the US are facing similar problems... which is why it's so important to regain momentum in the Middle East and destroy these "safe haven" countries where these guys can be trained.

I get the feeling that the military involvement in the middle east is going to become drastic soon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11332535/We-think-the-Paris-terrorists-were-offended-by-Charlie-Hebdos-satire.-What-if-were-wrong.html

Interesting.

http://mic.com/articles/107988/the-hero-of-the-charlie-hebdo-shooting-we-re-overlooking

I agree with that article. However, you can responsibilize the Muslim community and the countries that are governed by secular regimes. What i mean by that... you make their lives difficult so that they do something about the offending segment of their community/country. It's easy to do that against countries: it's called economic sanctions and, if more feasible or needed, military intervention. For a religion, it's more tricky. You don't want to do something that push more of them towards radicalization. So what do you do? I have a few suggestions:
- if you go to countries on the terror watch list (muslim or not), you're not allowed to come back into the country. Nobody goes to Syria or Yemen for vacation lol. If they want to go there, they can stay there.
- close down the mosques that such people attend or that conveys a radical message. doesn't matter if most of the people that go there are peaceful. That will force these mosques to self-police so that they can stay open.
- make the bureaucracy of doing anything very cumbersome and difficult if you're Muslim. If your life is directly being affected by the actions of a minority in your community, you will do something to correct it.

It pains me to say this because i have many wonderful friends who are Muslim. But i do get annoyed that they distance themselves from this problem in their community as opposed to do something to solve it... it's like the Germans saying that they're not responsible for what the Nazis did because, although they were aware of the issues, the didn't know the details of the crimes. That's not good enough for me.

sportsczy wrote:It pains me to say this because i have many wonderful friends who are Muslim.  But i do get annoyed that they distance themselves from this problem in their community as opposed to do something to solve it...  it's like the Germans saying that they're not responsible for what the Nazis did because, although they were aware of the issues, the didn't know the details of the crimes.  That's not good enough for me.

The Nazis were a democratically elected government who the Germans chose to represent them. These crazies are deranged people who have nothing to do with most Muslim people. They are not at all analogous You are in the wrong and are falling prey to this:

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/15/7394223/muslims-condemn-charlie-hebdo/in/7271890

they were elected and then took apart all the democratic institutions of Germany.  Since they were radical, armed and dangerous, people just let it go...  they weren't targeting the majority of Germans so it was easy to ignore.  

I don't believe in allowing injustice by using excuses like "what can i do" and/or "that's not me, i don't agree with it, so i'm not involved".  If you know it's happening, allow it to happen AND do nothing... you're also responsible.

They need to feel pressure and consequences within their own communities... so it affects their every day life. If the communities won't voluntarily put such pressure on them, then they should face certain consequences for their apathy. I guarantee you that they'll do something then.

How would you feel if a distant cousin of yours you never met committed murder and the family of the deceased came after you? This is exactly what you're suggesting. You can't subject an entire people because of the actions of a few. Furthermore, vengeance (even in the form of economic sanctions) is not justice.

sportsczy wrote:
It pains me to say this because i have many wonderful friends who are Muslim. But i do get annoyed that they distance themselves from this problem in their community as opposed to do something to solve it... it's like the Germans saying that they're not responsible for what the Nazis did because, although they were aware of the issues, the didn't know the details of the crimes. That's not good enough for me.

The Muslim community is internally split. They can hardly all agree with each other on moon sighting for Eid(scientific data goes outside the window in these situation in the favour of some high placed Imam) nevermind agree on something that significant. You will be surprised at how many would support ISIS purely because they target the Shi'a minority along with Christians and other faith people. And these people are not even extremists, they are University going students living in United Kingdom(Although severely brainwashed from childhood). However, most muslims do condemn the extremists. But condemning isn't going to do anything. An extremist will do what he believes is right because of what he has been taught. He will see everyone else wrong and himself as the rightful one.

The Liberals will never speak. Speaking out means getting outcasted by the conservative muslim society which is at least about 65% in Europe. Muslim liberals get lambasted if they spend too much time with non-muslims by the conservatives and that's something I have seen for many years. It's not that Liberals are cowards. But ultimately they are at the worst end. They get accused of not saying anything and they get accused if they say anything.

Hence, I would disagree that they are responsible. What can they do in the end? This situation isn't the same as Nazi Germany. They were under the influence of mass propaganda. They had no idea what was coming. They saw Hitler as someone who would take them from rock bottom towards the top and he actually managed to do that. What happened later was in no one's consideration.

Speaking of satire:

http://muslimmatters.org/2015/01/09/get-the-muslim-icondemn-app/

"As we rightly condemn the senseless and barbaric murders of journalists in Paris can we still manage to have a rational conversation about free speech, without the empty platitudes about how these cartoonists were "heroes?" For instance, I believe it is possible to agree that free speech is an essential value, and that journalists should have the right to say what they want -- even to offend others -- without then proceeding to act as though every act of speech (just because people have a right to it) is therefore worth defending as to its substance, and that free speech protects one from being critiqued for the things one says.

What I mean is this: I have a right, I suppose, to stand in the middle of Times Square and shout racial or religious slurs. And I surely should be able to do that without fear of being murdered for it. This last point in particular is so obvious as to be beyond debate, I would hope. But if I do this, whether in Times Square or in print, it makes me an asshole, and one who deserves to be labeled as such. Not a hero, but an asshole. And I don't become a hero just because I insulted people, some of whom might be even bigger assholes than me, and so dangerous and unstable that they decide to hurt me.

People seem to confuse the principle of free speech with the idea that one's speech should be protected from pushback; and while violent pushback is always wrong---always---I am uncomfortable with the idea that we should make heroes out of people whose job appears to have been to insult people they considered inferior to themselves. Especially because, historically, satire has always been about barbs aimed at those who are MORE powerful than oneself (the elite, royalty, the dominant social, economic, political or religious group), rather than being aimed down the power structure at those with less power. To satirize people who are the targets of institutionalized violence (whether for religious or racial or cultural or linguistic or sexual or gendered reasons) is not brave. It's sort of shitty, in fact. Should it be protected legally? Sure. Should those who do it be killed or punished in any way? Of course not. But should we hold them up as exemplars of who we want to be, all the while ignoring how the exercise of their freedom, without any sense of responsibility to the common good, actually feeds acrimony and violence on all sides? I think not. I really think we need to be talking about this."

-Tim Wise

Could not agree more.

That's the point. The more free speech, the greater the responsibility for it.

You don't like it, gtfo.  I have no more patience for people who shat on the french institutions, freedoms and way of life... yet live here and benefit from them.  Just gtfo if you don't like it or we'll frakkin kick you out.  If you want to be here, respect the laws and the culture.  End of discussion.

Exactly, I can't stand those who say "oh, I hate Britain (or France or any other country) and everything it stands for, but hey I am just going to continue living in my 5 bedroom council house, collect my benefits every week and buy all these flashy western clothes for myself and the kids, I might also take some drugs, fck a random woman and commit tax fraud" just gtfo if you don't like it. Go to the country that fits your views and never come back

halamadrid2 wrote:Exactly, I can't stand those who say "oh, I hate Britain (or France or any other country) and everything it stands for, but hey I am just going to continue living in my 5 bedroom council house, collect my benefits every week and buy all these flashy western clothes for myself and the kids, I might also take some drugs, fck a random woman and commit tax fraud" just gtfo if you don't like it. Go to the country that fits your views and never come back

So many like them in England

Hate England but love to receive benefits, do fraud and take full benefit of the free services including freedom of speech which they won't get in their own country

not sure if it was already posted here but there was a muslim from mali working at the grocery store who saved 15 people including a baby by hiding them inside of the stores refrigerator and turning off the cooling system while the gunman was inside. GOAT.

Same here in Denmark. Quite disgusting..

Firenze wrote:not sure if it was already posted here but there was a muslim from mali working at the grocery store who saved 15 people including a baby by hiding them inside of the stores refrigerator and turning off the cooling system while the gunman was inside. GOAT.

humanity

Firenze wrote:not sure if it was already posted here but there was a muslim from mali working at the grocery store who saved 15 people including a baby by hiding them inside of the stores refrigerator and turning off the cooling system while the gunman was inside. GOAT.

Yep. True hero.

Awesome display of solidarity from Rudi Garcia today at his press conference.

Spoiler:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-11/arson-attack-on-german-newspaper-that-published-charlie-hebdo/6011338