Klopp sack watch - Liverpool Edition

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Post by iftikhar Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:46 pm

OK here's an honest question: if Klopp/Liverpool is a choker, then what are we (fans)??? If being on the top of the table makes you dread about impending doom, you/we don't have the mentality to win anything. Just as much like the manager and players, the fans need to have a winning mentality.

Klopp isn't without issues and the two that are bugging him most at the moment are not signing a CB/RB in January and not rotating the front-three.

But he has done a good job and can actually finish it.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:33 pm

He's not a choker, it's just that his style of play is really aggressive and very energetic.

It's not particularly surprising when his teams have periods of severe drops as human beings can't maintain that for 50+ games.

I'm sure they'll pick it up again though, whether it will cost them a title remains to be seen.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:37 pm

Sure, but it is his fault always relying on the same 11 for that. If you have a high intensity approach you need depth. Especially in December and January.
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Post by Unique Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:He's not a choker, it's just that his style of play is really aggressive and very energetic.

It's not particularly surprising when his teams have periods of severe drops as human beings can't maintain that for 50+ games.

I'm sure they'll pick it up again though, whether it will cost them a title remains to be seen.
i thought thats why he pissed the 2 cups away to save players for the run in. when your getting the run around by scrubs like noble and snodgrass it means you have shit your pants.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:47 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sure, but it is his fault always relying on the same 11 for that. If you have a high intensity approach you need depth. Especially in December and January.


Well i obviously agree, he should've rotated way more than he has but i do understand why it's difficult.

When you're dealing with a team which barely loses, that pressure you feel to keep up even in August to December makes it difficult to trust rotating your squad.
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Post by iftikhar Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:57 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sure, but it is his fault always relying on the same 11 for that. If you have a high intensity approach you need depth. Especially in December and January.
Yes, and I did mention it as one of his faults. And he really pisses me off in this regard.
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Post by Helmer Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:00 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sure, but it is his fault always relying on the same 11 for that. If you have a high intensity approach you need depth. Especially in December and January.

to every dog on the street this was obvious. But only for people at Liverpool football club, they do not get it. I am happy that our cheapness is paying us off handsomely.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:21 pm

bump

he needs to go

?
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Post by Art Morte Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:47 pm

He had a similar collapse at Dortmund before leaving. Maybe he just can't sustain a team's motivation after peaking.
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Post by Firenze Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:48 pm

'At Anfield it is even worse. Eight games, no wins, and only one goal scored from open play since December 27. '

6 home losses in a row, new record

get Stevie G in
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:34 pm

It looks terrible, but look at the team sheet today, I feel for him. It is one of the most fast and spectacular crash from the very top Ive seen in some time results wise. Basically they wont be in the CL next season right?
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Post by CBarca Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:54 pm

He's invincible until next season, and deservedly so.
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Post by Helmer Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:29 pm

I really don't know what to say when you watch today's game Laughing brilliant football, very obvious goal scoring chances, can't score for their life.

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Post by Helmer Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:31 pm

Edit: GL scored !

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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:22 am

He's having a very poor season.
Liverpool were shockingly bad yesterday, and the way they were set up against Real was laughable.
This Liverpool is a sad shadow of the team of the last seasons, they mechanically try to repeat the approach that required so much intensity, force, and mental insistence, but without these things it's weak, uninspired, uncreative, and toothless.

People blaming the injuries in defense and the ensuing personal problems, and these are bad, but Liverpool's true problem is that they have no functioning attacking plan. They relied on Trent and Robertson to drill in from half field, teams know how to deal with this better now and there is nothing else.

Think Klopp is past it at Liverpool.
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Post by Myesyats Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:20 am

Shocking performance. RM's style is very bad to watch but somehow it works. I don't recall Liverpool taking a shot in the first half and their advances were just as miserable in the 2nd half. Favela boy Vinicius scoring 2 past you is historically shambolic.

That being said if Modric and Kroos are finished soon madrid will have a big problem to replace them.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:39 am

Klopp just blamed our stadium rofl
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Post by Helmer Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:18 pm

Look, it is difficult to blame any single person in such circumstances. But I would still go ahead and say, I love Klopp but as any other coach in the world, Klopp has his own weaknesses. One of them is, he can not always adapt to the team he has and considering opposition as Benitez or Fergie did. Benitez had a nice balance of using his own philosophy and still make enough tweaks according to what he has at his disposal. Benitez also was not perfect and had his own weaknesses.

Liverpool as football club rode their luck with signings from Hull, Southampton, Newcastle, Roma, Schalke with the help of some pretty well established statistical models. We tried to do it again using Kabak (another of those relegation clubs) and Nat (with his own limitations and only proper experience in BL at a lower club). We can drag it only so far as it gets. We were never able to sign top cream of of WC players like some other clubs across the Europe's top 2-3 competitions; probably that will also never happen.

It is difficult to criticize any one factor too much and we just need to take these learnings ahead as a club and check where it leaves us. Just to have some perspective, Robertson has not had an assist from last 18 games and he looks completely knackered this season. He had come back from 3 games of intensive 90 minutes from international football before the Madrid game. Mane has played almost 140 games in last 3 seasons. Mane looks tired and completely out of the touch atm. Firmino, we all know about his form. Salah is the only superhuman who is able to survive in Klopp's intensive system and still able to produce numbers after numbers every season.

Luckily we at least have something to play for in the league and the CL is not yet over till it is over.

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Post by Jay29 Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:33 pm

Klopp and Liverpool will be fine.

Some chickens have come home to roost, in that they've been using the same core players for two/three years and those players look shot. The lack of quality in depth up front and at full-back has been an issue since Klopp seems reluctant to trust the likes of Tsimikas, Origi and Shaqiri to start games.

Also, Liverpool are one of those teams who feed off emotion and often push through harder moments with home support. Take the support away and suddenly they find it tough to pull out that little bit extra to get them over the line. It's a understated factor, not one that explains some of the poorer performances of late, but I can't help thinking some of those narrow losses at Anfield would have been turned around with a full crowd backing them.

Good news is, most of this can be fixed pretty easily. Fans will come back with time, the squad depth can be improved with some shrewd signings (which they've already done a few times) and Klopp can tweak his system (which he's proven willing to do). I expect they'll be back up challenging next season.

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Post by Nishankly Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:25 pm

Klopp isn't going anywhere lol, he just won us the CL and PL.
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Post by Casciavit Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:28 pm

Meh, if Ranieri could get sacked after winning the PL title with a relegation level team the season AFTER. Anything is possible. Mind you, I think he's staying whether they qualify for CL or no CL.
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Post by iftikhar Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:14 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Think Klopp is past it at Liverpool.

Far from it.

Origi, Takumi, Shaqiri, AOC, Keita; that's five senior players who barely contributed this season. So the rest of squad have to carry extra loads, in addition to the exhaustion of playing high tempo football for last few seasons, and are run to the ground.

Injuries to VVD, Gomez and Matip didn't help either:
We lost the quality in our backline
We lost the solidity in our backline
The CBs are no longer contributing to the attack
The midfield & attack are weary of a fragile backline
TAA & Robertson couldn't rotated

We need a squad refreshing. A quality CB, CM and CF will go a long way in putting the springs back into our steps.
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Post by Art Morte Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:27 pm

This season is a freebie, next season should define his standing.
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Post by BarcaLearning Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:22 pm

I agree the missing factors can be regained next season and things shouldnt be as bad, etc. But it is also true what Hans said, teams are just naturally learning how to counter Liverpool, and Klopp will need to improve and evolve his system in order to stay successful or competitive. So many times this season oppositions just target the space behind TAA and Im guessing even with VD back and Liverpool get back to their best they would still need to adjust to counter things like this for example.
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Post by Nishankly Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:15 pm

Klopp's managerial history:

https://www.transfermarkt.com/jurgen-klopp/leistungsdatenLigenNational/trainer/118

He's averaging in the leagues 2.09 per game at Liverpool while at Dortmund he averaged 1.68 compared to 1.75 at Mainz.

Removing Mainz and considering he should have an easier run in with Dortmund in the league, his LFC numbers are absolutely magical.

His average players used per season is higher at Liverpool vs Dortmund as well.

Then we can add the coherent posts that Jay has put in the recent week that LFC fans have been saying since ages in isolation but I assume GL will not really care about that, anyways just wanted to throw this here since everything he does has to be back tracked to Dortmund and people here cannot move on from it. Which in my opinion doesn't make sense due to the horrible comparisons in the sample size and then straw manning to get to conclusions, but that's how it is.


Last edited by Nishankly on Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:17 pm

@Nishankly wrote:
Then we can add the coherent posts that Jay has put in the recent week that LFC fans have been saying since ages in isolation but I assume GL will not really care about that, anyways just wanted to throw this here since everything he does has to be back tracked to Dortmund and people here cannot move on from it.


Boo hoo

You were trash against Real, pure trash
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