Martin Ødegaard - Welcome to Arsenal

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Post by Valkyrja August 29th 2021, 00:59

danyjr wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:I used to be one of Ozil’s biggest fans (check the post history, it’s beyond stupid  Laughing ) but he’s not in any shape close to Odegaard’s talent and a very limited player to boot. Ozil was great at finding pockets of space between the lines, has a great touch and a decisive final ball, but other than that not so much - a few years back (I think futbol) called him a ‘poacher playmaker’ and I tend to agree with him on that. Odegaard is a more complete midfielder - better ball carrier, more consistent with his passing, probably more suited to the right interior role than behind the striker and a ball more active defensive presence. Mentally they are both not what a top team wants and they both lack a right foot.
I honestly can't if tell if you're sarcastic or not. Ødefaart more complete than Özil? Are you zonked? Özil has won a World Cup, numerous titles with Madrid, was topping assist charts in Europe for consecutive seasons when he was Ødefaart's age. Can you tell us exactly what a ‘poacher playmaker’ is?

You cannot even compare these two. Even potential-wise Øde isn't as good as Oezil.


Having won the world cup and numerous titles with Madrid (1 La Liga actually) doesn’t make him more complete or better than someone else. My analysis is based on what I see (or saw, in the case of Ozil, when he was at his peak in Madrid). He was never as good as some believed, as proved many times by his subpar performances against top teams and by the truly world class midfielders that followed after him. He was part of the reason why we couldn’t muster a true midfield battle against big teams during Mourinho’s era - him and Khedira. Once they were replaced by world class players in midfield such as Modric (one of the best mids of all time), Kroos and Di Maria, we kickstarted the most succesful European era in modern football. I don’t give a shat about statpadding against scrubs (CR also played a big part lol) when you chase shadows in big games and can’t hold on the ball or carry it forward to save your life, and also very innefective when not playing fast transitions.

When I say poacher playmaker I refer to a #10 who is camping in the final third waiting to receive a good ball between the lines in order to play the final pass. That’s his game mostly, and he couldn’t cut it at the highest level. Iniesta shat on him everytime they met, Kroos dominated us when playing as a 10 in 2012, Gundogan and Gotze destroyed him in 2013.

Age is irrelevant btw. Ozil was starting for Madrid at 21 but at 25 he was already out of the spotlight - as I said before, playing with CR was a dream for him as he had the best outlet upfront to play into, but CR still scored the same amounts after he left. Zidane at 21 was at bordeaux, Modric at Zagreb, Xavi and Iniesta were part time players at Barca - doesn’t matter, they are all time greats, dominated games at the highest level against all kinds of oppositions. Meanwhile, Ozil was topping assist charts at 22 but what else ? Winning the world cup as a passenger ?

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Post by Doc August 29th 2021, 01:06

Just a side note, Xavi at 21 was a firm starter at Barcelona and Ini featured heavily at that age as well (though not a firm starter like Xavi). Definitely not part time players...
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Post by danyjr August 29th 2021, 01:15

Dude, I get all of the criticism towards Özil, most of which I agree with and some I don't

But the elephant in the room isn't him. It's the fact that you compared someone who's actually achieved something in their career to a TOTAL nobody. The guy had half a good season in Sociedad, the type of team where he belongs.

I genuinely don't see what you see in Øde. I wish I could see it but I can't.

I don't agree with the poacher playmaker analogy. Otherwise with that analogy prime Buffon was a 'poacher keeper', just waiting in the right place to catch balls? Razz
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Post by Thimmy August 29th 2021, 01:24

Doc wrote:Also, I know a considerable amount of time has passed but Ozil was legit. I wouldn't say generational but at Ode's age, he wasn't suffering for playing time lol.

A proper creative attacking midfielder, don't mind he couldn't play past the 65th minute...


I would be wasting my time explaining their different circumstances, but we really need more world class, 21 year old Özils and fart humor. Maybe if we get Klopp as our manager, he could turn our Castilla players into the next Salahs and Van Dijks with his man management magic. I mean, Real Madrid is the hottest club in the world right now. Not wanting to play there would be a tragedy amirite. This is why people drink alchohol.
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Post by Doc August 29th 2021, 01:32

Sigh, that's not what I said, that's not what I mean and I wouldn't waste my time explaining I meant no harm.

I come in peace Thimmy...
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Post by farfan August 29th 2021, 01:49

Valkyrja wrote:
danyjr wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:I used to be one of Ozil’s biggest fans (check the post history, it’s beyond stupid  Laughing ) but he’s not in any shape close to Odegaard’s talent and a very limited player to boot. Ozil was great at finding pockets of space between the lines, has a great touch and a decisive final ball, but other than that not so much - a few years back (I think futbol) called him a ‘poacher playmaker’ and I tend to agree with him on that. Odegaard is a more complete midfielder - better ball carrier, more consistent with his passing, probably more suited to the right interior role than behind the striker and a ball more active defensive presence. Mentally they are both not what a top team wants and they both lack a right foot.
I honestly can't if tell if you're sarcastic or not. Ødefaart more complete than Özil? Are you zonked? Özil has won a World Cup, numerous titles with Madrid, was topping assist charts in Europe for consecutive seasons when he was Ødefaart's age. Can you tell us exactly what a ‘poacher playmaker’ is?

You cannot even compare these two. Even potential-wise Øde isn't as good as Oezil.


Having won the world cup and numerous titles with Madrid (1 La Liga actually) doesn’t make him more complete or better than someone else. My analysis is based on what I see (or saw, in the case of Ozil, when he was at his peak in Madrid). He was never as good as some believed, as proved many times by his subpar performances against top teams and by the truly world class midfielders that followed after him. He was part of the reason why we couldn’t muster a true midfield battle against big teams during Mourinho’s era - him and Khedira. Once they were replaced by world class players in midfield such as Modric (one of the best mids of all time), Kroos and Di Maria, we kickstarted the most succesful European era in modern football. I don’t give a shat about statpadding against scrubs (CR also played a big part lol) when you chase shadows in big games and can’t hold on the ball or carry it forward to save your life, and also very innefective when not playing fast transitions.

When I say poacher playmaker I refer to a #10 who is camping in the final third waiting to receive a good ball between the lines in order to play the final pass. That’s his game mostly, and he couldn’t cut it at the highest level. Iniesta shat on him everytime they met, Kroos dominated us when playing as a 10 in 2012, Gundogan and Gotze destroyed him in 2013.

Age is irrelevant btw. Ozil was starting for Madrid at 21 but at 25 he was already out of the spotlight - as I said before, playing with CR was a dream for him as he had the best outlet upfront to play into, but CR still scored the same amounts after he left. Zidane at 21 was at bordeaux, Modric at Zagreb, Xavi and Iniesta were part time players at Barca - doesn’t matter, they are all time greats, dominated games at the highest level against all kinds of oppositions. Meanwhile, Ozil was topping assist charts at 22 but what else ? Winning the world cup as a passenger ?


A lot of inconsistencies in this post.

First, we're discussing Ozil vs Odegaard here. You can't seriously use the " didn't cut it at the highest level" when comparing someone who has succeeded at the highest levels both for club and country to a perennial prospect who's yet to do anything of note at a top club. Laughing

Second, you're comparing him to various players who play different positions and have different profiles. Ozil is a classic 10 and should be judged based on what the position entails (playmaking and final ball delivery). Why should we compare him to a midfield dynamo like Modric?

You also seem to be implying that Ozil's stats were inflated due to Ronaldo's presence. Not the case at all. Ozil topped the assist chart in the Bundesliga at age 21, topped the assist charts at WC 2010, topped the assist charts at Euro 2012, and topped the assist charts in the EPL with Giroud up front.
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Post by Thimmy August 29th 2021, 02:12

Doc wrote:Sigh, that's not what I said, that's not what I mean and I wouldn't waste my time explaining I meant no harm.

I come in peace Thimmy...


It's not what you said, but Özil clearly had some amazing level of prodigious talent that I never noticed despite always having been a fan of his talent. You learn something new every day on here. I don't know where I was when he was tearing shit up at 21.

I love how, on GL, almost everything either gets boiled down to coming out of the ghetto in a wheelchair vs being able to shoot laser out of their eyes. But it kills my fucking brain cells Laughing I never had any problems with people criticizing Ødegaard for anything related to his performance or talent level, but ever since he joined Real Madrid as a 15 year old, I've seen straight up copy/paste of the most blatantly manufactured gossip about him on here. And it blows my mind how easily people take their word for it. First he was arrogant and too reliant on his father and whatnot, now he lacks grit, is lazy, doesn't want a challenge, and screwed up his own career. What a transition.
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Post by FennecFox7 August 29th 2021, 07:52

Really don’t get the odegaard hate. First off he was never going to be a regular at Madrid. That’s just a fact. He spent 6 months warming the bench and when he did have a chance he was actually quite good. Zidane didn’t like him and lied to him after promising him significant minutes. Let’s be honest, that right wing spot was up for grabs, vini was awful there, rodrygo too raw and physically weak and got injured. Hazard being hazard. He could’ve easily played there. No question.

The number 10 position hasn’t died, but there needs to be a certain amount of defensive responsibility taken. Man united have played with a 10 in Bruno at times with a double pivot of Fred-mctominay. It works. The 10 just needs to put in a defensive shift, which Bruno does. Odegaard does, in fact, play well in defensive transitions. And odegaard literally played a WHOLE SEASON on the right wing with la real. Why do people forget this?



He needs to play regularly at his age and arsenal do have a good squad, they just have an abomination of a manager. This is the sole reason for his or anyone on that team not named Xhahas poor play. Once arsenal get a half decent manager they’ll be in better sorts.
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Post by farfan August 29th 2021, 08:05

Thimmy wrote:
Doc wrote:Sigh, that's not what I said, that's not what I mean and I wouldn't waste my time explaining I meant no harm.

I come in peace Thimmy...

but Özil clearly had some amazing level of prodigious talent that I never noticed despite always having been a fan of his talent. You learn something new every day on here. I don't know where I was when he was tearing shit up at 21.


Literally nobody mentioned you in the Ozil talk. Laughing imagine being this self-centered.
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Post by BarcaLearning August 29th 2021, 10:23

Not followed this guys, but not really understanding all the attention? There are loads of more talents players out there not getting as much? Razz
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Post by Myesyats August 29th 2021, 10:29

BarcaLearning wrote:Not followed this guys, but not really understanding all the attention? There are loads of more talents players out there not getting as much? Razz

He's been hyped by Gil and Madrid fans since he was in middle school

Admittedly he had a great season at Sociedad, but the choice to join Arsenal will be highly detrimental to his development
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Post by Thimmy August 29th 2021, 10:52

farfan wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
Doc wrote:Sigh, that's not what I said, that's not what I mean and I wouldn't waste my time explaining I meant no harm.

I come in peace Thimmy...

but Özil clearly had some amazing level of prodigious talent that I never noticed despite always having been a fan of his talent. You learn something new every day on here. I don't know where I was when he was tearing shit up at 21.


Literally nobody mentioned you in the Ozil talk. Laughing imagine being this self-centered.


Imagine being a bigger french dick than you Laughing
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Post by M99 August 29th 2021, 14:14

Doc wrote:Sigh, that's not what I said, that's not what I mean and I wouldn't waste my time explaining I meant no harm.

I come in peace Thimmy...


Blowing up at everyone and everything and then crying about how stupid/kneejerky/intellectually inferior GL is has been Thimmy's thing for years now. You should get used to it.
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Post by Doc August 29th 2021, 16:58

Under Zidane, yes, Ode was never going to be a starter but we are all versed in Zidane's methods (or lack thereof sometimes).

Under Carlo, maybe, maybe not but considering Carlo is trying to make Asensio into Di Maria, I dare say Ode had very much a chance to be a starter considering it's Asensio.

As for his time at La Real, the manager at the time played a more expansive style of football so while Ode did start off on the right, you would have found him in various positions across the final third.

I also disagree that Arsenal has a good team as that side is a proper reflection of life post Wenger. Anyway, to write again so I don't be indirectly accused of things, something has to be wrong with Madrid and Carlo for Ode to watch Arsenal in all their mediocrity and say, yeah, I rather that right now.

And as a fan of his talents, obviously I wanted him to stay so the transfer didn't exactly make me happy.
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Post by El Gunner August 29th 2021, 17:06

too much hateful Arsenal bashing going on here which is probably as a result of recency bias... we had the third best record in the league since Christmas day of the last season (second half of the season) the time Ode was with us.

we have a decent crop of players (and a bad bunch too don't get me wrong), but we have enough positive players so we just need a competent manager for things to start looking better again
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Post by FennecFox7 August 29th 2021, 17:38

You mean carlo, the guy who barely rotates his starting XI once it’s set, wouldve played ode over Isco, never mind asensio? I don’t agree. I know Carlo. That’s just never been him.

I really dislike this whole “oh, but he’s a 10 on the wing so he’s still a 10”. No? I mean, he literally played as a winger and tracked back as a winger. Sure, he’s not a typical 1v1 guy and cross it in the box but who is? For some reason people have a huge problem with wingers having any traits besides speed and cutting inside for a shot. Is Mahrez a pure 10 because he doesn’t do typical winger things? Absolutely not.

Sure I wanted him to stay but he literally was just gonna ride the bench. He did what was best for his career. Arsenal will bounce back. Chelsea literally won a CL after being almost exactly where arsenal is after changing a manager. And after one game the kneejerkers here think “we’re right”, so you missed the last 10-20 games where he played excellent matches for arsenal??
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Post by Doc August 29th 2021, 19:18

I wouldn't say excellent but alright, agree to disagree on that one.
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Post by sportsczy August 29th 2021, 21:38

@Doc... I like Odegaard too and I'm unhappy at how he was treated at Madrid, including with Zidane. He's certainly better than Asensio, Vasquez, fat Hazard, traffic cone Bale, etc.

At least with Odegaard, you had a hungry player with the hope of progress. With the others, they are what they are.
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Post by futbol_bill August 29th 2021, 23:43

sportsczy wrote:You give him the clause because the clause is meaningless...  just like signing a 5 year extension doesn't mean that the player can't ask to be sold and force a sale after 1 year or anytime before.

Football is like that.

Odegaard is crap... i watch Castilla all the time and that's just a hard cold fact.   He's the worst midfield on the pitch when he plays and isn't even a top 6-7 player on Castilla.  The fact that he initially benched much better players was crap... now you want him to train with the first team over a more deserving player?  

Absolute horshit.  He's nobody and will remain nobody if he doesn't fight and DESERVE his role as opposed to waiting for handouts.

The only controversy is how dumb Odegaard and his father are.  I can understand a 16 yo kid being an idiot... but his father?


Hypocrite!
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Post by Doc August 30th 2021, 00:40

Opinions change Bill lol
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Post by FennecFox7 August 30th 2021, 00:48

Odegaard has shown that he puts in the work. He put on muscle. Improved his work rate. He’s steadily improved year after year.
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Post by El Gunner September 18th 2021, 16:58

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Post by FennecFox7 September 18th 2021, 18:26

El Gunner wrote:


Crickets in this thread..
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Post by farfan September 18th 2021, 18:34

You're going to have to do a bit better than a freekick if you want to dunk on the doubters. Laughing
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Post by Doc September 18th 2021, 20:11

farfan wrote:You're going to have to do a bit better than a freekick if you want to dunk on the doubters. Laughing

Like at least 2 seasons of fairly consistent performances would do the trick.
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Post by RealGunner March 13th 2022, 18:51

Elite playmaker
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