Martin Ødegaard - Welcome to Arsenal

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Post by El Gunner Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:56 pm

yes exactly thats what i meant with my Iceland and Greenland comparisons... perhaps not geographically but spiritually/culturally Finland are in the middle of nowhere.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:40 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Warrior wrote:I thought the finns were closer to estonians and nobody else hmm


They're really close to Estonia in that they're constantly on the ferry to Talinn getting drunk as it's much cheaper than on home soil
You know this because? hmm Also not anymore as they raised prices. Nowadays we order alcohol from Germany by mail.

So I wasn't wrong then?
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Post by Harmonica Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:34 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:


They're really close to Estonia in that they're constantly on the ferry to Talinn getting drunk as it's much cheaper than on home soil
You know this because? hmm Also not anymore as they raised prices. Nowadays we order alcohol from Germany by mail.

So I wasn't wrong then?
No? So how did you know about that?
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Post by Myesyats Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:23 am

Another argument in favor of Finland being the greatest country on earth..., look at the decor of this room!
don't look at the hot prime minister, oh i know you did you horny dog!

Martin Ødegaard - Welcome to Arsenal - Page 27 X4oEhFhM?format=jpg&name=large
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Post by Art Morte Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:09 pm

Fun fact about that table, actually: The white mark in the middle was left by Sanna's jacket when I banged her on it with her jacket on.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:46 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
You know this because? hmm Also not anymore as they raised prices. Nowadays we order alcohol from Germany by mail.

So I wasn't wrong then?
No? So how did you know about that?


Someone told me about that at some point in the past, I guess. It's not a secret knowledge.
I myself haven't been on that ferry yet, I only made it as far as Riga yet.
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Post by Doc Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:45 pm

Again, Odegaard really left Madrid for this side?! He really didn't wanna fight up just a bit?!

Madrid has to be a proper pos club for this young man to leave to a pretty stable team for a struggling side that has yet to score a goal in the PL.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:14 pm

He left Madrid for a manager who was promising him to make him the center of the team… but that manager is about to be sacked. Now he will have to hope the next manager really buys into making him a starter, otherwise, same situation as he would have been in Madrid. Got to work and compete for that job, nothing will be handed to you
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:20 pm

Doc wrote:Again, Odegaard really left Madrid for this side?! He really didn't wanna fight up just a bit?!

Madrid has to be a proper pos club for this young man to leave to a pretty stable team for a struggling side that has yet to score a goal in the PL.


Yeah Doc, you make a good point. Odegaard went to play, he thought for a top or near top team. But if he looked around he would see it was and is out of Europa and the coach that has faith in him, has his own job in jeopardy.

We will never know what exactly transpired at Madrid, but it sure seems that after the conversation with Ancelotti he asked to leave. Supposedly Carlo told him he was down the pecking order in terms of Modric’s spot. He should have taken that conversation as a challenge. If he looked at it Modric has had a great career and is deserving of the start position. However with Modric’s age and track record for past couple of years, he can’t start for all games. And if looked at the competition, he would realize he is better than all of them, he only needed to prove it to the coach.

As such, i think he made the wrong decision. However it was his sale that allowed the Mbappe offer to proceed and the club certainly is not rejecting his decision.
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Post by Casciavit Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:32 pm

I noticed something about his demeanour today. Remember when Mourinho called Benzema a cat? I get the same vibes from him. I always likened him to Ozil and like Ozil he lacks grit. Definition of a modern Arsenal player for me.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:38 pm

He is actually quite hard working. But it's difficult to judge any Arsenal player atm.
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Post by farfan Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:38 pm

Why are we still acting as if this guy is some sort of generational talent or something? Laughing at his age, Ozil has already taken over Madrid's final third and has reduced the likes of Kaka, Canales, Altintop, etc.. to bit player/water carrier status.
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Post by Casciavit Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:40 pm

RealGunner wrote:He is actually quite hard working. But it's difficult to judge any Arsenal player atm.


I don't think he's lazy or anything it's just when the going gets tough he gets timid. He doesn't try to force his influence on the game. That's what I've personally noticed.
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Post by RealGunner Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:41 pm

Ozil was generational. One of a kind and probably a top 3 playmaker of this generation. Not fair to compare anyone with him.

But Odegaard has the talent to be a very good 10. Needs to be coached well.
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Post by Vibe Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:42 pm

farfan wrote:Why are we still acting as if this guy is some sort of generational talent or something? Laughing at his age, Ozil has already taken over Madrid's final third and has reduced the likes of Kaka, Canales, Altintop, etc.. to bit player/water carrier status.


Because development isn't a linear thing and you might become a top player at 20, or 24 or 28. Or never.
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Post by farfan Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:47 pm

Vibe wrote:
farfan wrote:Why are we still acting as if this guy is some sort of generational talent or something? Laughing at his age, Ozil has already taken over Madrid's final third and has reduced the likes of Kaka, Canales, Altintop, etc.. to bit player/water carrier status.


Because development isn't a linear thing and you might become a top player at 20, or 24 or 28. Or never.


Is that usually the case for creative midfielders though? these players tend to show promise very early.
Most of the time late bloomers in football are center forwards who needed some time to figure out the intricacies of the position (Drogba, Vardy, Ian Wright, Luca Toni etc...)
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:06 pm

What Odegaard needed to reach his potential was playing time. He thought this move would give him that, but he obviously didn’t take into account the caliber of the club. He literally screwed himself..
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Post by Valkyrja Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:18 pm

I used to be one of Ozil’s biggest fans (check the post history, it’s beyond stupid Laughing ) but he’s not in any shape close to Odegaard’s talent and a very limited player to boot. Ozil was great at finding pockets of space between the lines, has a great touch and a decisive final ball, but other than that not so much - a few years back (I think futbol) called him a ‘poacher playmaker’ and I tend to agree with him on that. Odegaard is a more complete midfielder - better ball carrier, more consistent with his passing, probably more suited to the right interior role than behind the striker and a ball more active defensive presence. Mentally they are both not what a top team wants and they both lack a right foot.
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Post by Thimmy Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:32 pm

I'm not going to claim to definitely know what happened, where he supposedly messed up because he didn't possess the brilliant, omnipotent, inside knowledge of GL posters, but I certainly wouldn't want to waste years of my career playing under a manager who wrote in his auto-biography that he wouldn't have given me any playing time if his bosses hadn't ordered him to do so.

Regardless, of what happens to Arsenal or Arteta, I think he made the right decision in leaving, as opposed to staying under Ancelotti, or being loaned out to yet another club. Call me biased all you want, but GL really is like a gossip magazine sometimes. Some of you have absolutely no issues with bending reality to fit whatever assumptions you want to believe in, whether it's related to a player or a manager. The god of the gaps concept is a fun thing to play around when it's just banter or small talk, but if you actually believe in your own theories, then that makes you intellectually dishonest at best, willfully ignorant at worst.
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Post by danyjr Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:35 pm

Valkyrja wrote:I used to be one of Ozil’s biggest fans (check the post history, it’s beyond stupid  Laughing ) but he’s not in any shape close to Odegaard’s talent and a very limited player to boot. Ozil was great at finding pockets of space between the lines, has a great touch and a decisive final ball, but other than that not so much - a few years back (I think futbol) called him a ‘poacher playmaker’ and I tend to agree with him on that. Odegaard is a more complete midfielder - better ball carrier, more consistent with his passing, probably more suited to the right interior role than behind the striker and a ball more active defensive presence. Mentally they are both not what a top team wants and they both lack a right foot.
I honestly can't if tell if you're sarcastic or not. Ødefaart more complete than Özil? Are you zonked? Özil has won a World Cup, numerous titles with Madrid, was topping assist charts in Europe for consecutive seasons when he was Ødefaart's age. Can you tell us exactly what a ‘poacher playmaker’ is?

You cannot even compare these two. Even potential-wise Øde isn't as good as Oezil.
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Post by Myesyats Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:48 pm

If you dont rate Ozil, you dont know football

At this age he was bossing and not wandering like a lost lamb. I mean, Odeegard is a talent but he's made a terrible career choice

Wasnt Ozil a starter for RM at 21? And Odegaard is 22 at Arsenal with Farteta, cmon man
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Post by M99 Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:52 pm

At 21 Ozil was a starter at Real Madrid displacing Kaka and Canales and the best player of Germany that finished 3rd in the World Cup...

Didn't he also have more than 50 assists for Werder Bremen and something like 50 assists in two seasons? Laughable to compare him with Odegaard. Odegaard will have a good career if he becomes half as good as Ozil was.
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Post by Found Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:53 pm

RealGunner wrote:Ozil was generational. One of a kind and probably a top 3 playmaker of this generation. Not fair to compare anyone with him.

But Odegaard has the talent to be a very good 10. Needs to be coached well.


A generational square slide pass expert? If you took away 90% of KDB’s passing range and 100% of his defensive aspects you’d have something like Ozil left over.  Still remember the days when arsenal fans jizzed every time ozil passed the ball 12 or less yards across the six yard box for an assist
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Post by Doc Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:57 pm

Carlo did say that in his auto-biography but I like to recall Sacchi asked Perez name his ideal starting 11 and it was a bunch of attackers. I doubt Perez feels the same way now, doubt Carlo feels the same as well.

Then again, Ode watched Carlo and Madrid & proceeded to hit the both of them the classic "Nope". I really hoped he would have been successful here so I'll admit, not exactly thrilled he left.
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Post by Doc Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:59 pm

Also, I know a considerable amount of time has passed but Ozil was legit. I wouldn't say generational but at Ode's age, he wasn't suffering for playing time lol.

A proper creative attacking midfielder, don't mind he couldn't play past the 65th minute...


Last edited by Doc on Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Valkyrja Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:59 pm

danyjr wrote:
Valkyrja wrote:I used to be one of Ozil’s biggest fans (check the post history, it’s beyond stupid  Laughing ) but he’s not in any shape close to Odegaard’s talent and a very limited player to boot. Ozil was great at finding pockets of space between the lines, has a great touch and a decisive final ball, but other than that not so much - a few years back (I think futbol) called him a ‘poacher playmaker’ and I tend to agree with him on that. Odegaard is a more complete midfielder - better ball carrier, more consistent with his passing, probably more suited to the right interior role than behind the striker and a ball more active defensive presence. Mentally they are both not what a top team wants and they both lack a right foot.
I honestly can't if tell if you're sarcastic or not. Ødefaart more complete than Özil? Are you zonked? Özil has won a World Cup, numerous titles with Madrid, was topping assist charts in Europe for consecutive seasons when he was Ødefaart's age. Can you tell us exactly what a ‘poacher playmaker’ is?

You cannot even compare these two. Even potential-wise Øde isn't as good as Oezil.


Having won the world cup and numerous titles with Madrid (1 La Liga actually) doesn’t make him more complete or better than someone else. My analysis is based on what I see (or saw, in the case of Ozil, when he was at his peak in Madrid). He was never as good as some believed, as proved many times by his subpar performances against top teams and by the truly world class midfielders that followed after him. He was part of the reason why we couldn’t muster a true midfield battle against big teams during Mourinho’s era - him and Khedira. Once they were replaced by world class players in midfield such as Modric (one of the best mids of all time), Kroos and Di Maria, we kickstarted the most succesful European era in modern football. I don’t give a shat about statpadding against scrubs (CR also played a big part lol) when you chase shadows in big games and can’t hold on the ball or carry it forward to save your life, and also very innefective when not playing fast transitions.

When I say poacher playmaker I refer to a #10 who is camping in the final third waiting to receive a good ball between the lines in order to play the final pass. That’s his game mostly, and he couldn’t cut it at the highest level. Iniesta shat on him everytime they met, Kroos dominated us when playing as a 10 in 2012, Gundogan and Gotze destroyed him in 2013.

Age is irrelevant btw. Ozil was starting for Madrid at 21 but at 25 he was already out of the spotlight - as I said before, playing with CR was a dream for him as he had the best outlet upfront to play into, but CR still scored the same amounts after he left. Zidane at 21 was at bordeaux, Modric at Zagreb, Xavi and Iniesta were part time players at Barca - doesn’t matter, they are all time greats, dominated games at the highest level against all kinds of oppositions. Meanwhile, Ozil was topping assist charts at 22 but what else ? Winning the world cup as a passenger ?
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