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Post by Valkyrja on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:06 pm

Well, the reality is that we didn't have many Madrid caliber players in our youth system except for Jese and Carvajal. The only WC player I can think of is Mata and he wouldn't be a starter either. In order to develop some players from the youth teams they also need to be good enough, unless you go Pep-route in Barca and promote every scrub like Tello, Montoya, Sergi Roberto. A great player from an academy comes ones at 4-5 years at best ... The players we brought from the youth-teams to the A-team are starting material or will be in the near future.

Madrid actually developed a few players in the last 10 years that were bought at 18-19-20 that turned out to be quiet good like Ramos, Marcelo, Higuain, Varane. Benzema, Ozil, Di Maria were also very young when they came and they turned out ok. Canales is not a good example since he was hampered by injuries.

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Post by zigra on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:08 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Imo we should loan him to Ajax or something for a few years. He needs to be regularly playing at a decent level.


Yeah we really need to loan 16 year old players.
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Post by Donuts on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:09 pm

the problem with big teams such as barca and madrid buying young talent is that more often then not it wont work..

he's not going to replace any of your starters.. if ronaldo leaves i'll bet more money that perez will just buy the biggest name currently in the game to regain the illusion that madrid aren't losing a lot, then this kid will have to wait his turn again our try to take the spot.
not saying it wont work but it's really tough to predict how a 16 year old will progress if he does at all.. i mean look at bojan.. robinho etc etc.

also is he now earning the same amount as varane??

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Post by Art Morte on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:13 pm

Predictions on when we are going to hear about this kid the next time? hmm
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:13 pm

@Freeza wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Freeza wrote:I'm just sick and tired of this bs that Real ruins players without even giving a proper example of it. Illarra was used as an example ffs, a 23 year old midfielder when we bought him who has gotten some 70 games (lot of subs) and still not taken his chance.
The club gets all the blame for talents not fulfilling their potential, but a lot of the work is also in the player's own mental state surrounding the development. I really think Ødegaard can flourish is this environment, since from what I've seen and heard he's a very mature and hard working kid.


while that is all true, still there's a point when push comes to shove and young players need gametime, mental state this or that.
The bigger the club, the more tricky that is, and I don't think you can deny that Real haven't got a very good record at establishing players from their youth in their first team.
Not that this wouldn't be a similar problem at Bayern of course - but I still didn't hear any Real equivalents to Kroos, Alaba and Müller from you hmm


I had Carvajal and Jesé hmm not on Kroos's level though, but that's our win Proud Müller also great.

I really just want to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. There is no point raging on this transfer etc. Sure he could have picked a team like Ajax or Liverpool (senior/b-team, since youth team is GOAT) where he'd be an undisputed starter. But I guess he has more ambition. If he'd picked any top team, the result would be the same. I think we've showed that we atleast can develop the foreign youngsters we buy, sure we miss an undisputed starter from our own academy other than Carvajal.


I agree actually.
We can pretend like he's making a mistake etc pp, but he's getting shitloads of money and hype and he can train with the best.
If he goes to Ajax and his development doesn't skyrocket just as the hype suggests, he might be forgotten much faster.
At Real he'll be in focus.

The problem I just see is your president's penchant to buy big name attacking players as a matter of principle (that's why I'm curious if Jese will actually get a meaningful chance to become a starter at some point). Because you can always say "well if they are good enough, they'd play", but at huge club this notion of meritocracy is not so straightforward, not least because there's is lesser margin of error for youngsters.
But the kid will be fine either way, in any case, that's true.

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Post by Freeza on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:17 pm

Sometimes buying a star is good in Perez' style, I liked the buy of James because his style would suit us better. The Bale buy I couldn't really understand, still can't to this day. Hopefully we'll sell him and give chances to Jesé but I doubt it. Most Madrid fans would probably want Jesé over Bale right now.

Jesé getting marked with 3 men against Atletico and Bale getting left alone is the highlight of my year ffs Laughing Proud

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Post by Valkyrja on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:17 pm

@Donuts wrote:the problem with big teams such as barca and madrid buying young talent is that more often then not it wont work..

he's not going to replace any of your starters.. if ronaldo leaves i'll bet more money that perez will just buy the biggest name currently in the game to regain the illusion that madrid aren't losing a lot, then this kid will have to wait his turn again our try to take the spot.
not saying it wont work but it's really tough to predict how a 16 year old will progress if he does at all.. i mean look at bojan.. robinho etc etc.

also is he now earning the same amount as varane??


I agree with this
It's clear that he is a special talent, but you can't pay a 16 year-old more than the established players that you have in the squad, since you never know how he will develop. And even if he will develop accordingly, players are paid for their contribution. How will a 16 y.o contribute at the level Real Madrid require ?

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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:41 pm

El Cujo wrote:
@B-Mac wrote:except he was playing against men ins Norway....not 130 lbs 16 year olds

Laughing ...ah yes, the great Norwegian premier league. Top class league, that. Would be willing to bet Liverpool's UEFA Youth league team gets 1st place in that table.

EDIT: I meant no offence Norwegians, the Liverpool youth team is quite strong right now. Thumbs up


I don't know, man.. I was never a fan of John Arne Riise, who came from the humble, Norwegian club of Ålesund before later joining Monaco and then Liverpool - but I think it's safe to say that he wasn't a flop for your first team. Another Norwegian, Stig Inge Bjørnebye also played for Liverpool during a large part of the 90s, a career that was relatively successful, and earning him the nickname "crazy norwegian viking" among team mates, despite him being sidelined for almost a full season after injuring his leg.

They were both relatively young when they arrived at the club, and I think it's safe to say that they both enjoyed successful spells for Liverpool's first team... you know, back when Liverpool were still sort of considered title contenders. No offense Very Happy

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Post by B-Mac on Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:52 pm

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Post by farfan on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:19 am

this kid is disgusting .
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Post by teamanarchy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:50 pm

Here's the thing.
Odegaard won't be getting playing time, yes. If he sees more than 60 mins action with RM over the next two years, I'd be surprised. But... earning the money he does, and knowing he can get better, playing alongside CR7, Bale, etc... he will be happy, no doubt. Plus, his father will help him setlle, and he will integrate easilly to Castilla.
BUT, what's probably going to happen is we'll send him to Getafe, where he will play in La Liga, week in week out... From there, we'll bring him back and he'll have the chance to show he's first team material. He may only get there when he's 20/21/22, but that's no problem...
Look at Cheryshev, for example... that's how I see it happening.

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Post by Valkyrja on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:52 pm

Don't compare him with Cheryshev. The latter is simply an average/sub-average talent. If Odegaard works hard he will be in the first team in 2016. Just like Varane or Jese, he is a special player. He won't be loaned if he develops properly at Castilla.

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Post by Glory on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:57 pm

Once ronaldo declines, Perez will go for Hazard. Hames is young. And then theres  Bale, Isco. Bale in probabilty will be sold. You guys will also try to get Reus next summer. So who will he replace in 1-2 years of time ?

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:11 pm

who knows, and i am not even sure why people are trying to guess the future, it never works. we are hoarding talents, and then the fittest talent will survive. It's not just Odegaard, it's Asensio, it's Mink Peeters, and it's all the kids we will keep signing to develop trough the club in the next couple of years. Some will break through, others won't, law of life.

and he is not earning 80k per week, stop reading dumb english tabloids. you would think people learn, but they don't...

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Post by Cruijf on Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:41 pm

How is Illarra a bad example Freeza? 23 is not 16, sure, but he was by no means a finished product that wasn't good enough. You knew when you were buying him you had one of the most promising young midfielders in the country, substitute appearances against La Liga fodder aren't going to help him.

And this 70 appearances thing is really misleading btw. 90% of those are 10 minute substitutions to close out games  you've already won, and most of the starts were in dead rubber games.

The fact of the matter is you had an extremely promising young player and Carlo preferred to play every N.10 in his team out of position before turning to Ilarra.

The other reason I say Odegaard probably should've looked elsewhere is if you eventually need a player like him you just know Perez will buy some 100m superstar instead of letting the coach use him as Barca or Bayern would.

Obviously we can't predict the future and he might go on to be a massive success, but all I'm saying is from what we've seen it doesn't look like the best idea.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:40 pm

Odegaard is a fool for thinking he could become a first team starter. We don't have the patience for someone to turn good under Perez. It was better under Calderon but the coach has so much pressure they will turn to their experienced players when it matters and with Barca/Madrid always fighting it out for LaLiga it will never be possible for Odegaard or any of our other youth player to get enough time to impress. Just imagine if they got as much time as Benzema or Bale etc to come good, we probably would have a starting eleven full of our youth players but alas there is no such patience shown unless they were bought for large sums and for that reason Odegaard is a fool

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Post by Curtinho on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:47 pm

@Thimmy wrote:I don't know, man.. I was never a fan of John Arne Riise, who came from the humble, Norwegian club of Ålesund before later joining Monaco and then Liverpool - but I think it's safe to say that he wasn't a flop for your first team. Another Norwegian, Stig Inge Bjørnebye also played for Liverpool during a large part of the 90s, a career that was relatively successful, and earning him the nickname "crazy norwegian viking" among team mates, despite him being sidelined for almost a full season after injuring his leg.

They were both relatively young when they arrived at the club, and I think it's safe to say that they both enjoyed successful spells for Liverpool's first team... you know, back when Liverpool were still sort of considered title contenders. No offense Very Happy

I was only exaggerating to make a point (I also didn't say that no good players could come from Norway). Odegaard did play against men but he didn't dominate them, and it was not like he was doing it in a top league. We have seen 17-18 year olds come in and look just as good against men in better leagues before that eventually end up fizzling out or not reaching their potential.

I was just providing a list of players I thought would turn out better than Odegaard without all the hype and money is all. Personally I hope he succeeds and becomes a very good player. I like watching good players and premium, young talents that can realize their potential are special to watch. I just think there's a bit of overhype here and it's something of a circus given that there are many players of a similar level to him around the world.

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:50 pm

So many "next Pele" hyped kids at 16 who never turned out to be much... the chance of kids this age maturing into what people project them to be is not very good.

Most of the guys who turn out to be really good had to fight it out until the age of 20 at least and, thus, learned the game the tough way without getting pampered. When you get pampered at such a young age, you tend to lose perspective.

The money is a drop in the bucket for us... so who cares in that sense. But until a kid actually plays and performs on a pro team in a good league, you have no idea what he will become.

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Post by Abramovich on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:02 pm

In 10 years time I bet Japanese Messi >>>>>>>>>>>>> this guy.
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Post by futbol on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:56 pm

Martin Ødegaard  - Page 11 B76S0dHIcAAbcJn

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Martin Ødegaard  - Page 11 B7-OJ7eIEAA3UnI

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After joining Mehdrid: "I prefer Ronaldo." rofl rofl rofl


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Post by M99 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:58 pm

Photoshop imo

Laughing

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:59 pm

Reporter: Messi or Ronaldo?
Odegaard: Ronaldo for now

Proud

brain washing is complete Proud

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:15 pm

I mean it's not like we haven't gone this route recently before... Benavente, Drenthe, etc. Barca had the same experience with Bojan.

It's just hard to tell at this age.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:46 pm

Fußball wrote:
Martin Ødegaard  - Page 11 B76StGEIgAMmntu

After joining Mehdrid: "I prefer Ronaldo." rofl rofl rofl

"Ronaldo or Messi? Right now, Ronaldo," he added. "All the players have a lot of quality, they are very good. If I had to choose one, then Cristiano, as he's the best in the world. But there are other great players here like Bale and Isco.

We've known for quite some time now, here in Norway, that he's a big fan of Messi. He understandably removed the twitter messages, in order to avoid unnecessary drama as to who his favorite player and club is between Barcelona and Real Madrid. I think a lot of people tend to blow these things out of proportion, and it shouldn't really matter whether or not a player admires someone from a different, or even a rival team. It was no surprise that someone had already taken screenshots of those messages, before they were taken off Rolling Eyes I think he answered the questions as well as you'd expect him to, in that situation.

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Post by Thimmy on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:55 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I mean it's not like we haven't gone this route recently before... Benavente, Drenthe, etc. Barca had the same experience with Bojan.

It's just hard to tell at this age.


I like to divide those young, hyped up players into two categories: The ones who build their reputation upon results, who manage to assist or score tons of goals at an early age, and the ones who stand out because they provide something unique, and often showcase extraordinary ability in a particular area of their game. More often than not, the former tend to fail to live up to expectations when you remove them from a setting that they're accustomed to. Wasn't there a rumor that Bojan had scored a ridiculous shit ton of goals at a very young age?

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Post by titosantill on Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:17 pm

@Thimmy wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:I mean it's not like we haven't gone this route recently before... Benavente, Drenthe, etc. Barca had the same experience with Bojan.

It's just hard to tell at this age.


I like to divide those young, hyped up players into two categories: The ones who build their reputation upon results, who manage to assist or score tons of goals at an early age, and the ones who stand out because they provide something unique, and often showcase extraordinary ability in a particular area of their game. More often than not, the former tend to fail to live up to expectations when you remove them from a setting that they're accustomed to. Wasn't there a rumor that Bojan had scored a ridiculous shit ton of goals at a very young age?


@thimmy, that's not how it works, there have been players who have showed something "unique" and have failed and those with stats that have excelled and vice versa. this dude is 16, what he doesn't need is to be over-hyped, that can only hurt him when he starts to see the realities of professional football at a club like madrid on or off the pitch. this is a long term plan that can fail or succeed at very little risk, that's all it is ; its best to wait and see how this pans out, cos you're rated as potentially good at 16, doesn't mean it always pans out. also cos someone that age isn't so good, doesn't mean the person will not have a successful career either.....and this is madrid, the standards are high and the threshold for patience is very little compared to elsewhere, so let him develop at his pace, and give him a couple of years before we hype or disregard him
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