Re: World Cup Final 2014: Post Match Discussion

by dostoevsky Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:56 pm

rwo power wrote:
dostoevsky wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Idk, when Neuer came out against Higuain it was at least a foul, I'm not sure if it was a pen or not as it happened 'on the line', but it was definitely a foul regardless.
Martin Tyler immediately brought up comparison to Schumacher in the 1982 semi-final but I disagreed with it fundamentally. Where as Schumacher simply took out the man, Neuer did actually get to the ball and first at that. It might have been dangerous, however I felt he was entitled to go for it. Higuain might have been collateral damage, but I thought it was the right call, even if I could understand why Gonzalo would feel aggrieved. I'd like to hear some more opinions on it though
Neuer clearly went for the ball. Higuain could have decided to draw back when he realized that Neuer would be faster to the ball, but he wanted to go for it, too. So in the end Neuer played the ball and the clash was an accident. It was similar with the clash that took Kramer out. Sometimes stuff like that simply happens.

Essentially my thoughts, though it's comforting to hear that someone else agrees. I certainly understand Alfred's view that it might be classified as excessive force, but as you rightly pointed out, from Neuer's point of view, he has won the contest and Higuain runs into him. It must also be considered that for years, referees have sought to protect goalkeepers from physical interference and I don't think the final decision was particularly surprising. It's never nice to see such a heavy collision, but both players were within their rights to challenge for the ball and sometimes these things will happen.

It's 2-2 as far as this discussion goes thus far, with two neutral opinions split 1-1. hmm

by Casciavit Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:57 pm

Messi blames World Cup defeat on strikers

The 27-year-old was frustrated by his side's inability to finish their chances, while also pointing to the fact they had a day less to recover for the final

Lionel Messi blamed Argentina's 1-0 World Cup final defeat to Germany on their forwards for being wasteful in front of goal.

The 27-year-old was a peripheral figure on the night and fired wide a golden opportunity to give his side the lead in the second half after Gonzalo Higuain had done the same in the opening period, while Rodrigo Palacio also scuppered a great chance.

Argentina were then punished for their failure to convert those chances when Mario Gotze scored a brilliant winner in extra-time to take the World Cup back to Germany.

And Messi believes his side deserved better, insisting they should have taken their chances.

"We haven't been in the semi-finals for many years and the fact that we played the final and the way we played it it's something to be proud of,"Messi said after the game.

"But we deserved more and that's why we are sad. The strikers missed the chances we had. It's a bad feeling for all of us because we couldn't win the cup and take it to our people.

"It's painful to lose it by so little. We were very close of a big change for this national team but we couldn't finish it."

Argentina made it to the final after beating Netherlands on penalties in their semi-final on Wednesday, a day after Germany thrashed Brazil 7-1 in their last four clash.

And Messi felt the ease at which Joachim Low's side cruised to victory last week, along with the additional 24 hours of rest ahead of the final, was key as the final went into extra-time.

"I was OK physically as were the rest of us," he added.

"The fact that we played a day after them and that we played extra-time against a team that was able to rest in the last minutes of their semi-finals affected our finish of the game.

"A difference of one day is big at this stage."

Messi could take one small crumb of comfort from his evening after being awarded the Golden Ball as the best player of the tournament, though he said the prize "meant very little" on a disappointing night.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:18 pm

Don't really see how it can be argued that it was not reckless:

Da rules wrote:http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12-en.pdf

"“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent"

I think knee to the face is acting with complete disregard for the oponent, don't you?

In any case I want to reiterate I blame our bad finishing much more than this call, but I personally (and as objectively as I can) don't see how it could possibly not be a foul.

Also RWO Higuain could not have seen that Neuer was getting there faster because he was not even looking in that direction:

http://giant.gfycat.com/InfantileWigglyAmazondolphin.gif

by shinigami99 Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:22 pm

Man that was horrible. Wish the ref did something about that

by DuringTheWar Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:44 pm

BC it is dangerous but it's one of those things that are accepted in football. In the first half the same thing happened with romero, difference was the German (I think it was klose) pulled out of it and there was no contact. You get these situations between goalkeepers and forwards where both players are entitled to go to the ball and ugly collisions can happen if they both go for it. It could be called a foul I guess but it seems a generally accepted scenario. Btw the Schumacher incident, which was much worse really, also was not called a foul.

by ronalessi Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:20 pm

by rwo power Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:09 am

@BC

Looking at the GIF, it appears to me that Neuer fixates the ball to properly clear it, and it doesn't look as if he hits Higuain on purpose. As I said before - it really looks like an accident to me.

Zuniga on the other hand rammed his knee into Neymars back without even having a chance to get the ball - and that wasn't booked either IIRC, even though that would have been more of a foul.

by Winter is Coming Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:39 am

Should've posted this early, but lol for whoever hasn't seen it.

by Jack Daniels Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:50 am

Was a great match.

by Zizou Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:59 am

So - I suspeceted that score at the end...
Clearly Germany was to win this - yet, I knew it was going to be tough.
tbh, I hoped for Müller to score early in the first half and then but only then we might have looked at something like 4-1, although after the first half was goal less - ifeared we would need etra time and score extremly late...

one thing that struck me: If Argenina wasn't able to use the chances they createted, they could have keept playing until christmas and would not have scored.

It wasn't meant to be. And really after 2006 the german team really does deserve the win. So much has changed in german soccer since the last WC win and especially since 2002.

And as I saif earlier, Klose really deserves this. I did wish for him more than for anybody else to get that title to end his career as WC Winner and Top scorer...

so I am a very happy camper - only, that I wasn't in Germany to celebrate is a bit of a downer.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:48 am

I thought it was an absolutely fantastic match.

Completely even, high speed, high intensity, surprisingly open yet hard fought and well defended.

We had spells where we were the better team, Argentina had too.
We had many good quick attacking moves, yet Argentina had a couple of very dangerous opportunities.
Higuain missed the Kroos gifted sitter, Messi had a very good chance right after HT, for his standards a sitter too tbh, Enrico Pallazzo too.
Höwedes header on the post ffs.

Messi gave us a lot of trouble first half, shortened my life a few years too.
Argentina were always dangerous and very strong, but in the end we edged it, I felt after 100 min they more and more lost their dangerousness.

The brutal bodycheck on Kramer for me was actually a 100% penalty.

The Neuer thing on Higuain was VERY questionable too imo, I don't know how this is with the rules, he clearly goes for the ball and gets it, but jumping with his knee into Higuains head?!
Might well have been a red card

Mascherano and Aguero MUST be off in ET. Not should be, MUST be. Shocking refereeing.

Good thing we answered right away. Götze Proud

couldn't be happier how this came into being. So happy for Götze.

Benni Höwedes made me eat my words. Great performance.

Özil was great, Schweinsteiger was great, etc. pp.

MOTM for me though Jerome Boateng. What a monster of a game.

Fair play to Argentina. What a great match. Would've deserved to win had they managed, just as we absolutely deserve it.

Proud

by Zizou Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:51 am

agreed!

Just my life span was not shortend. After the "100%tige" did not go in I figured Argentinia could play until Christmas 2015 and not score Smile

so it was clear after that, that we would take the Cup

(eventually I knew it all along - because no one deserves it more than Klose and the Gods do favour that) Smile

by halamadrid2 Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:48 am

Sabella should have taken a chance on DiMaria. He would have tored that slow midfield apart with his speed. Palacio in a final seriously

by BusterLfc Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:50 am

Neuer's knee to Higuain's head was very dangerous, ref should've done something about it.

Mascherano also deserved a red in the ET.

Other than that, refereeing was good.

by MaraVilla Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:04 am

Great game, ref made some mistakes but nothing that would cost either team the game, overall good performance by the ref and both teams.

biggest mistake Sabella made was subbing off Lavezzi for aguero, baffling decision since lavezzi was probably their most dangerous player. Di maria's pace and pressure was a big loss aswell

was sooo sad, couldnt even fap myself to sleep after the game and im not even argentian Sad

Congrats to germany, played well throughout the tourney and deserved it. Guess i have to celebrate with my mother's side of the family....the Maravillasteigers banana

by Brady2Moss Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:06 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Don't really see how it can be argued that it was not reckless:

Da rules wrote:http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worldfootball/clubfootball/01/37/04/28/law12-en.pdf

"“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent"

I think knee to the face is acting with complete disregard for the oponent, don't you?

In any case I want to reiterate I blame our bad finishing much more than this call, but I personally (and as objectively as I can) don't see how it could possibly not be a foul.

Also RWO Higuain could not have seen that Neuer was getting there faster because he was not even looking in that direction:

Neuer is just copying from the GOAT Romero.

World Cup Final 2014: Post Match Discussion - Page 4 628x471

by BarcaLearning Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:33 am

Rightly so the reviews mentioned why Aguero on for Lavezzi at HT....it was a gamble that didnt pay off. Lavezzi was very good the first half... Aguero supposed to be best friends with Messi or something but on the field they clearly dont have much chemistry.... not like MEssi-Higuain... strange decision...

by VivaStPauli Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 am

I was puzzled by it tbh, Lavezzi was Argentinas best striker, maybe even having a better game than Mascherano. Made no sense at all to me.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:54 pm

Nicola Rizzoli, the ref of the final, gave an interview to Gazzetta dello Sport in which he recounts how Christoph Kramer was completely disoriented after the shoulder check to his head by Garay.
Apparently Kramer asked Rizzoli: "Referee, is this the final?" When Rizzoli thought he wa joking and asked him to repeat the question, Kramer said "I really have to know whether this is the final"...
Pretty incredible he didn't insist on Kramer being subbed off right away tbh

Kramer said the day after the game that he can't remember anything from the first half or the run up to the game..

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