Does Messi Have Some Fatigue Issue?

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Post by darixanboy Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:02 pm

You are correct. People who blame Messi should name 2-3 players in history who kept their level as world's best almost 5 years in a row

Best player ever Maradona played 3 years on top then finished because of random reasons. R9 got injured because his skills were too high and his legs didnt take that pressure from such acceleration and direction changes. You name it.
No top player kept his level more than 4-5 years at the top

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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:14 pm

and it's not like he's become completely bad or anything, he's still scoring recor d amounts of goals per season lol
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Post by Lord Awesome Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Messi never had as much Stamina, honestly. I think the most valuable asset he lost is Speed and now you seldom see him Dribble opponents like he used too before he reached 25-26.


Last edited by Lord Awesome on Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:36 pm

Please forum, don't talk about statistics when I'm here. It's embarrassing.  Laughing 
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:39 pm

posting only statistics and nothing else, and then even the stats are wrong, is embarassing.
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Post by Lord Awesome Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:41 pm

Numbers don't say everything. :coffee: Just gonna lay it out there before people get provoked over nothing. hmm
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Post by guest7 Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:47 pm

It's pretty obvious to anyone who's had a son in their life. When you become a parent, you automatically have a change of focus in your life. Simple to put it - football isn't his main focus anymore. His son and family is.

Imagine waking up and wanting to spend your day with your son but being unable to because you have football training and mathces to do. Messi already has everything: money, titles & a legacy. There is little importance to him in these matches. It doesn't help that his old coach that was a important motivator for him left aswell.

At this point the only reason he is playing is to become the greatest. But honestly I doubt he cares that much to it anymore. I could see him retire early if he wins WC because he is bored of football. It's obvious at this point.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:48 pm

On the thread I've to stay Messi has zero problems with stamina. Every team trains to stop Messi, and alter their game plan, to stop him. And they will sacrifice every ounce of their own attacking game to do so. Because it will decide if they succeed or not.

On the 6 games, Messi has played 5 times against parked bussed, being marked at least twice, or thrice more than anyone else. In 4, he found the way to decide the game in random moments. Against Netherlands he was the best defender, on top of active defending (second most tackles of any forward) he does also passive defending, like no other. He has defended a lot even before the game has started. Against Nigeria he played open game, and put 2 goals in 45 minutes.

He continues to put as much stamina as Argentina needs, not ounce more, because he is what Argentina needs.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:55 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:posting only statistics and nothing else, and then even the stats are wrong, is embarassing.
 Laughing Please keep guessing. I will teach statistics to you after couple posts more.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:58 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Athletically he is not the same guy he was 3 years ago, all the challenges, all the stress of those winning seasons, it took a toll on his body.


How do challenges on you affect your stamina? Or stress?

I think the most accurate answer to Messi's fatigue or low work-rate is the simplest and the most obvious one: He's gotten lazy.
Well, players knocking messi over and over to get him off the ball put stress on his body, specially that he is resisting and pushing back to stay on the ball and to ride challenges. It's the same with stress and fatigue, it wears you down little by little.

It's something you see in NFL for example, players that get hit over and over dont become more resistent and durable.

Saying he has become lazy, is in fact a lazy interpretation of his problem. Someone who has the mental make up of Messi, which is highly comparable to CR, doesnt just becomes lazy, or saves himself. You can take a look at him this world cup, what is he saving his energy for? to shag his wife? no he knows there are efforts he cant make without sacrificing his offensive game

It didnt use to be like that when he was younger, but obviously it changes, his body changes, the minutes he plays pile up on him etc... Football is still a sports and most of what happens to players can be explained by their body changing, like Torres turning a scrub when he lost his physical edge.

Messi's body used to be incredible for footy, pace, quickness, agility, he was unstoppable. But let's not forget he is still a guy that had issues growing up and had to use hormones to develop. I am no expert, but i think those things always catch up to you down the line one way or another. Messi isnt a freak athlete like CR for example, that's just genetics.
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Post by Adit Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:14 pm

If any body here plays / trains for any kind of athletic games they will know that stamina is directly related to your pulse rate. Robbery has a pulse rate of 60.. he didn't get it over night. He runs and runs and runs during the games often acting as left back (lol).That's how you develop your stamina. Of course if you stop running for two years like messi your stamina will go down. The tackles received by messi or any other player will not affect his stamina lol...that is bs.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:18 pm

i am not talking about tackles and challenges affecting his stamina, i am talking about those putting stress on his body, which to me is clearly highlighted by the fact that he doesnt go into challenges as much as he used to
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:27 pm

@Harmonica wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:posting only statistics and nothing else, and then even the stats are wrong, is embarassing.
 Laughing Please keep guessing. I will teach statistics to you after couple posts more.


Do you even watch the games at this point, or do you go straight to some site to copy the bullshit stats you need?
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Post by Valkyrja Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:32 pm

The guy needs a rest for god's sake. he has played some of the best football ever in the last between 2008-12.
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Post by zigra Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:37 pm

@Harmonica wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:posting only statistics and nothing else, and then even the stats are wrong, is embarassing.
 Laughing Please keep guessing. I will teach statistics to you after couple posts more.


You want to teach something? Laughing You have zero knowledge of how to use stats in a sensible way yourself. Pls go study maths and come back afterwards. Nothing against you but you're really just out of your depth here. It's like a kid that can barely do sums talking about definite integrals.

Anyway most people donÄt know better so it's probably not a problem at all. Keep posting bra  Thumbs up 
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:44 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Harmonica wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:posting only statistics and nothing else, and then even the stats are wrong, is embarassing.
 Laughing Please keep guessing. I will teach statistics to you after couple posts more.


Do you even watch the games at this point, or do you go straight to some site to copy the bullshit stats you need?
Wait, wasn't it about turnovers?  So did Messi have a turnover or not in the game?

Laughing
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Post by farfan Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:59 pm

why did the mods let this clown back in after what seemed like a definitive ban ? :facepalm:
his meltdown and PMSing after the champions league final was legendary tho Laughing
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Post by Hapless_Hans Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:05 pm

This is football, not basketball.

Messi lost the ball numerous times, more often than 4 btw.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Of course he had fatigue issue.

Its called not working hard for 2 years.

Im not in training, but I HIGHLY doubt he busting his ass there. The results we see are proof enough of that.
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Post by Zealous Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:30 pm

After Messi stopped chasing dem aesthetics with his HGH gains he's never been the same imo

Now it's all grilled steak and chit, that ain't no way to treat an athlete's body man.
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Post by Pip Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:52 pm

Here are his activity rates throughout the World Cup, it might be of interest to this entire debate.

SF - Netherlands: 91% low, 4% medium, 5% high
QF - Belgium: 90% low, 4% medium, 6% high
RO16 - Switzerland: 91% low, 3% medium, 6% high
GS - Bosnia: 90% low, 4% medium, 6% high
GS - Iran: 92% low, 3% medium, 5% high
GS - Nigeria: 88% low, 5% medium, 7% high

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Post by futbol Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:28 am

The man himself AND his father have come out and said he feels tired. How are people arguing against this? Laughing

Messi, direct quote after Belgium game: "My legs felt like they weighed a hundred kilos.”

Messi "is exhausted and feels as if his legs weigh 100 kilos each," his father Jorge told the Brazilian newspaper Folha de São Paulo.

His own grandfather had to say this:

The striker’s grandfather, Antonio Cuccitini, was not pleased with Messi’s performance in the first three games of the tournament. Despite Messi scoring the majority of Argentina’s goals, including the game-winner in stoppage time against Iran, Cuccitini said his grandson could step up his performance.

“I think he’s been pretty poor,” Cuccitini said, via AS.com. “In Spain, he’s got more zip, he goes ’round 22 players. He needs to get his spark back.”

“Right now Leo isn’t running, I’m not convinced by him,” Cuccitini said. “I’m truthful and I don’t have time for hot air.”

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:33 am

Messi 0 turnovers?

Smh you pleb Harmonica, you actual pleb
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Post by gnrfan Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:37 am

For the disbelievers.

http://vimeo.com/91814367

The old messi..look at the fight for the ball at 22 s. Look at how he is so eager to take people on where today he'd make a sideways pass. For any newbs who started watching football the past two years, this is why messi is considered one of the best ever.

*To tune of Pink Floyd song Vera

LIO...LIO....what haaas becooomeee of youuuuuuu????


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Post by Harmonica Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:12 am

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Messi 0 turnovers?

Smh you pleb Harmonica, you actual pleb
Umm, yes. Another clueless simpleton reporting in. Very Happy
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Post by Hapless_Hans Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:00 am

Harmonica, why would we generally even assume these stats are accurate and should be taken as the gospel?

Let's think about this systematically for a minute, shall we?

- these stats do not come into existence magically, mechanically, through god or some infallible machine. There are people somewhere capturing them, entering them.

- now let's ponder for a moment who these people might be, working for a football statistics site, watching games and entering data. Based on your tireless penchant and undying love for football statistics for example, they might possibly be people like you, Harmonica, that's not far-fetched to consider?

- so basically there's a good chance some of the people creating these stats are borderline lunatics with some kind of unhinged bias and outlandish convictions, who might in fact be typing all kinds of crazy numbers into their keyboards when watching the games.

- now don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with lunatics and their outlandish convictions, my point would merely be: why should we place trust and base our judgement on the statistics they create, when we can just as well watch the games ourselves and cautiously base our judgement on our own impressions?
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