Italia: La Nazionale II

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Post by rincon Sun May 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Art Morte wrote:Was looking at that squad like "so, this is Italy's squad at the WC" and then I remembered.


Sad

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Post by Doc Sun May 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Oh right, Italy lost to Hala's cousins and Lindelof. This is genuinely odd to see really.
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Post by Cruijf Sun May 20, 2018 4:25 pm

Really glad to see Balo back, I've always liked him. Hope he can perform this time.
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Post by Luca Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:11 pm

France's biggest match of the summer tonight against Capitano Balo and the ragazzi

where my fratelli @?

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Post by rincon Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:24 pm

All the kids against WC aspiring France Proud
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Post by Luca Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:26 pm

Mandragora-Jorginho-Pellegrini midfield ffs Proud

Beppe thankfully can keep eyes on all of them

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Post by rincon Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:33 pm

Can't wait to see Berardi-Balotelli-Chiesa dominate France Proud

Mancini trying to provide the maximum possible potential banter
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Post by S Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:36 pm

Italia: La Nazionale II - Page 32 Den-z-4WsAE9f-E

ufff
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Post by Luca Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:40 pm

Were about to liberate France of Deschamps in time for them to appoint Zizou

You're welcome @farfan

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Post by Robespierre Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:54 pm

Italia: La Nazionale II - Page 32 Den_0_OKWAAAVQCy

This team rofl
It 'd not pass WC group
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Post by M99 Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:20 am

Holy shit that is bad. Worst Italian gen I've seen.
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Post by Doc Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:13 am

Watched this match over as I totally missed the live stream and all I gotta say is y i k e s to Italy. I mean, long away from Euros and the next WC so this is gonna be a legit and possibly "painful" transitional period.
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Post by Warrior Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 am

And they sign Mancini as coach...

Surely he is the man who will revamp them Rolling Eyes
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Post by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:53 am

You guys must not have seen Conte’s Italy team led by Eder and Pelle or Ventura’s Italy that played the worst I’ve ever seen a team play in my life

I’m much more optimistic with Mancini and his selections. It’s a non factor right now due to his predecessor anyways

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Post by Warrior Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:29 am

Ventura has done a great job, according to Ventura.

I have doubts about Mancini's stint, but i suppose he was the only decent name who actually wanted the job. I doubt he can give back to Nazionale its identity, let alone create a new one around the upcoming gen. At Inter he end up as a disaster then he couldn't qualify for Champions League with Zenith, starts Balotelli in 2018... gives you an idea

About that said next gen pool of talent, we have talked before, it is a bit light. Needs a reliable coach so Italy don't follow Netherlands path (i know i exagerate).
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:02 am

Yeah, Italy's problems are beyond picking the right manager.
Their problems are that they have a second or third rate player pool these days. Looking at that game yesterday, they're just not a top NT anymore and it will take quite some development to change that again.
I might add that I consider Mancini to be a huge fraud.
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Post by S Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:13 am

The talent pool is still better than what they had 4-5 years ago tbh but it still pales in comparison to a France or a Spain. France is literally a talent factory nowadays.

I can see Italy being a semi-decent NT surprising people and getting good results like Netherlands for example but hard to imagine they'll return to their glory days anytime soon.
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Post by S Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:19 am

And building your team around Balotelli would be a mistake. A huge mistake.

His temperament might have improved but there's still that lazy and selfish attitude about him. I dont know why people continue to rate him. The guy has the talent but will NEVER make full use of it. It would be better to build the team using a less talented player but works 10 times as hard compared to him like Belotti for example.
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Post by rincon Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:54 am

There was no other way this game was gonna end. It's WC ready France with a top team vs Mancini's first call up using the more unproven players in a transitional period.

Like S says. This talent is definitely better than the last few. Eder, Pelle, Sturaro, Giaccherini combo just shows how GOAT Conte was to destroy Spain and Belgium and draw Germany. Ventura's late team shouldn't even be mentioned.

It's not top, but throw in the other key players there (Insigne, Verratti, Bernardeschi, Perin/Donna) and give two years to grow and figure It out and we should be fine.
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Post by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:59 pm

We have time on our side but we will now pay the price by relying on the same group of old players time after time as our younger ones now have no experience internationally and no chemistry among themselves.

Mancini is a fine manager for this job, we will be at the Euros without a doubt in my mind.

Right now I'd say we have decent enough options everywhere on the field

Insigne-X-Bernardeschi
X-Jorginho-Verratti
X-X-Bonucci-X
X

I think that's the spine of the team already well-defined.

The striker spot being between Balotelli, Immobile, Belotti and Cutrone (should he continue on his form)

The last midfield spot could also be a variety of players- Mandragora, Pellegrini, whom started yesterday, Cristante, Barella, Florenzi, Bonaventura etc.

Fullbacks: De Sciglio, Florenzi, Darmian, Barreca, Calabria, Conti, Spinazzola

CB: Romagnoli, Chiellini, Rugani, Caldara

GK: Donnarumma/Perin will fight it out in my opinion

Again, these are early days but I can look at this team and Mancini and be happier to see Italy play again then under Ventura who is a thief of joy

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Post by sportsczy Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:02 pm

I'll say this again... Serie A is still a good league, but not a top league. You need diversity in experiences. Italian players need to leave the homeland and try their craft in the elite leagues. As a NT manager, you don't know how your talent compares unless you see them performing at the club level against other elite talent.

As an example, only 1 of the regulars on France NT play for Ligue 1 (Sidibe). On the bench, you have 5 (Mandanda, Thauvin, Fekir, Lemar and Kimpembe)... and most of these guys are leaving Ligue 1 this summer.

There aren't enough NT games to rely on those to comparatively assess your talent.
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Post by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:16 pm

I'll have to respectfully disagree @sports

Italy, like Germany and Spain, has had their best players playing for the best domestic clubs. It's no surprise that Italy's weakest period coincides with a time that Juventus, Milan, Inter and Roma have less Italian representation- but that is quickly changing. This does relate to the league in a deeper way though as the two Milan clubs have been poor for half a decade, their lack of relevance has not helped the league, or by extension, the national team.

We also suffered from a weaker generation, there has not been breakout talents as we had a couple decades ago, long gone are the days of Cassano, Baggio, Totti, Del Piero, those generational talents, but that doesn't mean we cannot field a competitive squad, not by any means. We have a solid group of players, enough to surely be at these competitions which right now is the only thing that matters, having missed the World Cup in unfathomable circumstances. We do not have talent like France, Spain or Germany right now by any means but the only way is forward.

Not seeing Candreva on a team sheet is the glass half full for me

Lots of positives from the last week or so. I can be a little optimistic but nothing will mask the fact that this is the darkest period for the national team in the last 60 years

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Post by Kaladin Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:21 pm

sportsczy wrote:I'll say this again... Serie A is still a good league, but not a top league.


This is very true, as much people don't want to admit it
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Post by Doc Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:33 pm

Interesting. On one hand, if the top Italian talents do stay in Serie A, it would not only benefit the league itself but the trickle down effect would also be strengthening the NT as well. On the other hand, since the league itself currently isn't elite, any top level Italian talent that stays there would remain at the level of the league itself which, once again, isn't elite so there is a bit of a stagnation taking place. Well, "stagnation".

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Post by S Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:54 pm

Like Bundesliga hmm
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Post by Luca Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:55 pm

Doc wrote:Interesting. On one hand, if the top Italian talents do stay in Serie A, it would not only benefit the league itself but the trickle down effect would also be strengthening the NT as well. On the other hand, since the league itself currently isn't elite, any top level Italian talent that stays there would remain at the level of the league itself which, once again, isn't elite so there is a bit of a stagnation taking place. Well, "stagnation".



It's a delicate balance that we have not paid enough respect to. Surely the four Champions League places coming back will only benefit the league and national team overall. I do believe there is a direct correlation (not to be confused with causation) of having a strong league with a strong national team. Historically, the top Italian players play for the top Italian teams, it begins and ends there for me. And I do believe over the past 2-3 seasons, the Italian clubs are paying a bit more mind to this. I don't believe in a prioritizing signing Italian players but I do believe that the talented Italian players should be well-represented at the top Italian clubs

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