The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:22 pm

And that puts that one to bed. Good to know we've got our priorities straight, though it's slightly worrying that a defensive midfield doesn't appear to be on the list. I guess backup keeper, right back and striker are the most pressing concerns at the moment, so maybe after those signings we'll get a defensive midfielder and winger as well. I remain hopeful.

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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:29 pm

@bbcsport_david: Arsenal may also sign a defensive midfielder if right deal available, but not in market for another attacking midfielder #bbcsportsday #afc

Wonder if Wenger classifies someone like Griezmann as an attacking midfield, as opposed to winger/forward.

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Post by MJ Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:53 pm

I could have seen the logic in signing Cesc (world class, midfielders aging, injury crisis, low fee)

And I see the logic in not signing him (excess of AMs, money needed elsewhere.)

But this does put massive pressure on Wenger to spend so he better.
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Post by Amar Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:55 pm

This frankly puts alot more pressure on Wenger and the club to make a couple STAR signings. Not good players with potential.

Its not often you get a chance to sign a proven world class attacking talent for great price in this market. People can say we already have enough midfielders but there is no such thing as having too many world class players, you change the system to accomodate these players. Last time I checked, we still finished 4th and were depleted by injuries to our midfield AGAIN. Lack of quality depth is blamed, and then we dont make a move when its available. We've got to look at our rivals as well...letting Chelsea get Cesc has automatically put a huge gap between us and them already. They've signed Costa and will surely shore up the defence as well. We're not close to City, and Liverpool are making the necessary tweaks to challenge once again.

People keep bring up priorities, but there's been many instances when we haven't been able to sign a player that we really needed. Just go back a couple years when we desperately needed a DM or a keeper or a striker and we didn't do crap. Last year there was a glaring hole upfront and nothing was done once again. I've never been confident in our transfer dealings, even with the Ozil signing who fell into our lap in the last week of the window. With the execs flaunting about our commercial deals and our capital expansion, saving money by not buying Cesc to address these priorities shouldn't even be a concern.

It will be absolutely ridiculous if the club isnt able to sign a world class striker, midfielder/winger this year, but then again I won't be surprised either.
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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:19 pm

Its not often you get a chance to sign a proven world class attacking talent for great price in this market. People can say we already have enough midfielders but there is no such thing as having too many world class players, you change the system to accomodate these players.

How do you go about accommodating him into the side? He can only play one position, and to play him in that position you have to move Ozil to a position that's not his best, and then by doing that you've got to drop another player, and in doing that you might negatively effect how the side plays.

A huge problem last season was that our play was too narrow because we had too many attacking midfielders sharing the same space. Ozil couldn't create as much as he can do because he lacked the runners around him to do so; the likes of Walcott, Chamberlain and Podolski missed large chunks of the season injured. So how does Cesc solve that problem? He doesn't bring pace to the team, nor width. He brings in more creativity and goals, but that's precisely what Ramsey gives you and more.

When you've already got players that can do what Cesc does at the club, would it not be counter-productive to add the same qualities?

Last time I checked, we still finished 4th and were depleted by injuries to our midfield AGAIN. Lack of quality depth is blamed, and then we dont make a move when its available.

Medical/fitness practices were blamed, not depth. A lack of depth isn't the problem, the problem is that the depth gets injured as well as the first team players. You can't just stock up talent on the chance you're going to face an injury crisis because that's just ignoring what the actual problem is.

Chamberlain got a long term injury at the start of the season, so Podolski comes in. Podolski then gets a long term injury a couple of weeks after. It's this sort of scenario that needs to be prevented, and it's not something that's solved just by adding more players to the squad.

We've got to look at our rivals as well...letting Chelsea get Cesc has automatically put a huge gap between us and them already. They've signed Costa and will surely shore up the defence as well. We're not close to City, and Liverpool are making the necessary tweaks to challenge once again

Okay, we bring Cesc back so he doesn't go to Chelsea... then Chelsea go and buy another class attacking midfielder. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

People keep bring up priorities, but there's been many instances when we haven't been able to sign a player that we really needed. Just go back a couple years when we desperately needed a DM or a keeper or a striker and we didn't do crap. Last year there was a glaring hole upfront and nothing was done once again. I've never been confident in our transfer dealings, even with the Ozil signing who fell into our lap in the last week of the window. With the execs flaunting about our commercial deals and our capital expansion, saving money by not buying Cesc to address these priorities shouldn't even be a concern.

Cesc doesn't address any priorities, so the club doesn't want to waste any time or money on him. £30mil on Cesc is £30mil you can't spend on a position we actually need to strengthen. We've a large budget but not so big that we can afford to make such luxury signings because we don't want him to go to Chelsea, or because he's an ex-player.

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Post by MJ Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:28 pm

Frankly, I have my reservations about how Fabregas will fit in with Chelsea especially when players like Mata and Kaka were booted for not fitting Mou's system. And according to some reports, he's not as enthusiastic as the board.

If we'd signed Cesc then they would probably go all out to sign someone who would make them stronger like Koke or Pogba.
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Post by urbaNRoots Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:33 pm

Hopefully this is the end of it, I was starting to think we might waste a lot of money on a player we don't need at all. Good to see Arsenal using their head rather than heart.

I also hope Cesc moves somewhere this summer for a LOT of money so we can get 50% of the fee and add some of it to our transfer budget. We could even try to lure Falcao here if we get an extra £20m from Barcelona bounce
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Post by MJ Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:39 pm

That's my question. If he moves somewhere for £26m do we get £13m?

Or is it only a profit of what Barca bought him for because if so, we make nothing. We might still be owed money by them, not sure, but we wouldn't see any profits because there would be none.
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Post by urbaNRoots Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Yep we get 50% of his future transfer fee , but Barcelona won't sell for so little, they will ask atleast for £40m, remember they will want atleast to get what they paid back for him (£29m) but might make compromises if someone gets close to that.
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Post by Sri Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:56 pm

I feel a tinge of sadness, despite being against the idea of buying him back this summer.

I hope this is all a smokescreen and he stays put at Barca, like he did last summer.

After seeing the Dutch guy play for United, I don't imagine it would hurt all that much to see Cesc at some other rival, even if it is someone who is Yang to Arsene's Yin. That would give a morbid Annakin Skywalker kind of feel to it though. Laughing

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Post by MJ Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:19 pm

I would rather any other team in the world than Chelsea tbh

but I wouldn't be completely shocked if Barca turned around and decided to treat him better or whatever, if anyone's prepared to stir up BS to get a better package for his players it's Darren Dein.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Arsenal really need to block this move. Chelsea and City are waaaaaaaaaay ahead in terms of talent now and Man U with Van Gaal is going to be much, much better. Not to mention Liverpool. Pochettino at Spurs is a potential issue as well.

Arsenal cannot stand pat.
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Post by urbaNRoots Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:59 pm

We need to block this move so Chelsea can get Koke while we're left with an expensive player who we don't need and block moves for players we actually need to improve.

That sounds like a great idea.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:13 pm

Cesc is better than Cazorla ffs. Cazorla turns 30 in Dec and and Cesc just turned 27 in May. It's a no freakin brainer. Buy Cesc, sell Cazorla to a non threatening club in EPL or to another league and be done with it.
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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:16 pm

Weren't you saying that Cazorla and Ozil in the same side didn't work because you can't have two 10s in the same side? So how is having Cesc and Ozil in the same side any different?

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Post by sportsczy Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:21 pm

I said that, with Gibbs and Sagna being poor to average as overlapping fullbacks, you can't have two 10s on the wings. So you either need to play a true winger OR get a wingback type at RB. If Aurier is brought on, he's most definitely a wingback. His biggest strength is overlapping and attacking.

It's about width. You also need to tell either Ramsey or Wilshere to always stay wide.... like Pogba and Vidal do for Juve, Matuidi does at PSG or Di Maria at Madrid. Our young midfielders aren't very tactically aware right now... but that can be fixed. Wenger needs to lean on them.
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Post by urbaNRoots Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:24 pm

sportsczy wrote:Cesc is better than Cazorla ffs.  Cazorla turns 30 in Dec and and Cesc just turned 27 in May.  It's a no freakin brainer.  Buy Cesc, sell Cazorla to a non threatening club in EPL or to another league and be done with it.  


Then what? Cazorla doesn't play the same role Cesc plays should we sign him, he's completely irrelevant, him and Cesc can arguably play together (if we're not being very strict here).but not Cesc/Özil. Not if you want to keep the solidity we have defensively.


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Post by EL Patron Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:25 pm

Cesc can't play Santi's role, Barca tried him there and he was average. We can't spend half of our budget on a player we don't need just to prevent him from joining other clubs, we don't operate with unlimited money cheat like these oil clubs.
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Post by bloodless Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:29 pm

sportsczy wrote:Cesc is better than Cazorla ffs. Cazorla turns 30 in Dec and and Cesc just turned 27 in May. It's a no freakin brainer. Buy Cesc, sell Cazorla to a non threatening club in EPL or to another league and be done with it.


why would we sell one of our best players? one who just won us an fa cup final? your logic makes no sense...Cazorla last season was easily one of players you could say was always on the teamsheet.

The only point here that is significant is the age difference but honestly cazorla will play for another 3-4 years easily so unless we find ourselves in a position where someone is willing to pay 30 million pounds for him this move would make no sense...


We need a striker, a DM, a CB and a RB...why would we invest the most money we have on a position where we can stand up next to the best teams in the world without a doubt!

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Post by Jay29 Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:34 pm

Age is a non-factor as far as I'm concerned. Cazorla is hardly reliant on his pace, and can simply assume Rosicky's role in the squad as the main backup/squad option for the attacking midfield when he approaches the end of his career.

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Post by sportsczy Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:35 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Cesc is better than Cazorla ffs.  Cazorla turns 30 in Dec and and Cesc just turned 27 in May.  It's a no freakin brainer.  Buy Cesc, sell Cazorla to a non threatening club in EPL or to another league and be done with it.  
Then what? Cazorla doesn't play the same role Cesc plays should we sign him, he's completely irrelevant, him and Cesc can arguably  play together (if we're not being very strict here).but not Cesc/Özil. Not if you want to keep the solidity we have defensively.
We can go back to a 433 as opposed to this 4231.  Reason Arteta/Ramsey get exposed badly at times is that Cazorla can't play CM very well and neither can Ozil.  So Arsenal were left playing a 2 mand mid with 1 guy that's too slow and another that gives a huge effort, but is much better in the attacking side.  Cesc can and did when he was at Arsenal...  just didn't need him there at Barca.  You put Cesc, Ramsey and a DM together = fantastic midfield.  Even Cesc, Ramsey and Arteta would do well.  

It's about gap control.  Arsenal suffered in big games this past year because the midfield gaps got too big and the other team exploited it.
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Post by urbaNRoots Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:49 pm

C'mon we both know Wenger appreciates continuity/stability, he won't change formation, he will build around it.

He will sign a winger (or play AOC there) and sign a striker, he will also sign a class RB to replace Sagna. We won't even care about Cesc once we do these things, especially if one or two are "big names". Forget about Cesc, we have Özil and Ramsey to build the team around, two guys who won us our first cup in 9 years, both top class players who bring us what Cesc does and more.

I have always liked Cesc, that's why I defended him in the Barca section and general section, but we have better players than him now and we can finally move on to a new era with these two. Let's do that by bringing the best out of them and not hinder them by playing them out of position or give them special roles so we can accomodate Cesc.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:52 pm

No one is pointing the gun to Cesc's head forcing him to join Chelsea.

He WANTS to join chelsea. Don't waste your time thinking about him. If Cesc loved us so much, he would have never joined Barcelona. Specially not after leaving us in the horrible state at that time.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:54 pm

Sports, problem is, when you play a 433, you need genuine wide players and that still puts Ozil in limbo. Truth of the matter is, with Ozil at the club, it's pointless for Arsenal to sign Cesc. Will just create another cluster, waste of money.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:56 pm

RealGunner wrote:No one is pointing the gun to Cesc's head forcing him to join Chelsea.

He WANTS to join chelsea. Don't waste your time thinking about him. If Cesc loved us so much, he would have never joined Barcelona. Specially not after leaving us in the horrible state at that time.

Dont be so harsh, he did love u, but he loved his home club more. At the time they were a legendary team, winning CL and trophies in bundle. How could he not have wanted to be part of that. Plus Pep telling him he needed him for his 343 which ended up backfiring and flopping. Pep left, Cesc cant play the Xavi role, and despite Thiago leaving, barca still signed Neymar to kill his options (iniesta going LW, Cesc left interior, Xavi right interior).

Now he is going to chelsea because they are the only club interested in having him (surprised PSG not making a slight push).
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Post by Raptorgunner Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:58 pm

Spending half of our budget on Cesc? scratch We can get Cesc and Alexis sanchez for free almost. Barcelona owe us money for Cesc and Song.

I am over Cesc tbh, dont care where he goes. What I care about is what Wenger is going to do to get us to the next level. FA cup was great but next year we need more and just FA cup wont be good enouph.

As for selling Santi, I am against selling him to make space Cesc, it would be a pointless thing. We need all the players we can get to win major trophies.



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