La Selección Argentina V.2

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Post by neuro11 Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:44 am

@RealGunner wrote:Text Sebella this team


--------------------Romero-------------------------
--------Zabaleta-----Fernandez------Garay------------
----------------Gago------Biglia------------------------
Lavezzi---------------Enzo-----------------------Di maria
--------------Messi----------------------------------
--------------------------Aguero-------------------

Works for me everytime


No it does not......in any way
firstly, you omitted the workhorse Mashcherano. He is irreplaceable from this squad. Secondly you put Enzho and Biglia in the mid, two new players none of whom have game time even not much in friendly. It will collapse as soon as the game goes in high intensity mode. they will just lack in experience. Thirdly, you have put Aguero who is injured and even if not is far from his WC qualifier performance.

I would not take so much risk at this moment. would simply replace Rojo with Basanta and take off Higuain for Palacio.....

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Post by BarcaLearning Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:53 pm

Rojo suspended....do we have a good enough LB backup? Belgium look really threatening on the wings vs USA.... Sad
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Post by Glory Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:06 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:Rojo suspended....do we have a good enough LB backup? Belgium look really threatening on the wings vs USA.... Sad


yea Basanta pale

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Post by shinigami99 Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:19 pm

Either Basanta is going to play LB or Zabaleta is going to switch wings and we're going to put Campagnaro on the right
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Post by Casciavit Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:23 pm

@neuro11 wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Text Sebella this team


--------------------Romero-------------------------
--------Zabaleta-----Fernandez------Garay------------
----------------Gago------Biglia------------------------
Lavezzi---------------Enzo-----------------------Di maria
--------------Messi----------------------------------
--------------------------Aguero-------------------

Works for me everytime


No it does not......in any way
firstly, you omitted the workhorse Mashcherano. He is irreplaceable from this squad. Secondly you put Enzho and Biglia in the mid, two new players none of whom have game time even not much in friendly. It will collapse as soon as the game goes in high intensity mode. they will just lack in experience. Thirdly, you have put Aguero who is injured and even if not is far from his WC qualifier performance.

I would not take so much risk at this moment. would simply replace Rojo with Basanta and take off Higuain for Palacio.....


He wasn't serious lol.
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Post by Casciavit Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:24 pm

What exactly does Gago do? Is it not his job to link the defense and attack? He's doing a poor job at it IMO.

Surely E.Perez is better, no?
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Post by harhar11 Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:15 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Aguero is injured brah


When will he be fit again? I heard that he started training with the ball already..

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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:44 am

Think changes are necessary but it is clear there cant be anything to dramatic at this stage. The answer too isnt that 5 man backline disaster formation.

For me, Messi is getting tightly marked because if teams didnt know already, they know now he is the center of this team's universe. He is the un-questioned leader of this team and they look for him as much as possible, he responds by providing more movement than he does for Barca. He wont ever run in behind or sprint to spaces anymore (unless it is for a tap in chance) but he looks for the ball with a positive body language and coming to meet the ball, rather than allowing himself to be marked.

In any event, he is getting alot of attention.

I think they missed Aguero's presence, even if wasnt doing anything of any note when he was in. But the change in system did hurt a side which was already struggling.

Lavezzi plays wider and makes different kinds of runs than Aguero. He engages different players on the field, namely the rightback. Whereas Aguero draws the ire of CB's and deeper midfielders.

With Higuain in, this keeps the CB's in place and off Messi, which is positive. However, when Aguero is there too, the CB's dont want a 2 v 2 vs these two and a deep midfielder will always keep Aguero in his mind. Now of course, the rightback track Aguero easily enough because Argentina dont have a leftwinger, but this opens up Di Maria who from midfield loves to make that run out to the left.

This natural positioning provides movement without any real thought, it can naturally occur.

Vs the Swiss, he (Di Maria) was on the right and not the midfield. So it allowed the midfielders to concentrate on Messi, knowing Gago and Mascherano will stay deep with the ball and not make forward runs.

I think they need to get Palacio in there, but not as a winger, but directly as an Aguero replacement.



Zab------------------Fernandez----------Garay---------Basanta

-----------------Gago---------Mascherano--------------Di Maria---

----------------------------------Messi----------------------------------

-----------------------Higuain----------------Palacio-----------------------



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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:18 pm

The problem with that is that Zaba is working for 2 and gets eaten alive. I think it would make more sense to replace Gago with Enzo who will actually make forward runs and has a great engine to get back to the defensive positions, unlike Gago who has not done anything at all.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:21 pm

Depends on who your facing. Against Belguim, there is nothing to be worried about.

If anything you want Vertoghen to get forward, he is no left back.

Im not convinced swapping Gago vs Enzo will do too much. Yes, he will fill the spaces left by the tough marking of Messi. But those forward runs leave Mascherano with more ground to cover.

Enzo may have a great engine to get back, but he cant run faster than a ball can travel on a counter attack.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:15 pm

dani, some very interesting comments. How much of a chance do you give Belgium against Argentina?


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Post by The Franchise Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:23 pm

Well they have to have a chance, Argentina dont look in good condition and while Belgium arent either, the uncertainty of consistent performances means its totally up in the air.

This is also a game where Belguim not having proper fullbacks might not be a big issue. They dont have to be proactive in this game, they can wait for Argentina..and it would make sense to, because so far Argentina have struggled to create chances without being on the counter attack and so far them seem very happy to knock the ball around in front of the opponant, keeping possession. So I dont expect the Belguim CB's playing fullback to get isolated much and have to be exposed by their lack of pace.

So, while I still dont rate Belgium much and think they have been even worse than I thought they would be..they obviously arent the favourites but have the possibility to win a tight, narrow margin win.
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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:33 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Well they have to have a chance, Argentina dont look in good condition and while Belgium arent either, the uncertainty of consistent performances means its totally up in the air.

This is also a game where Belguim not having proper fullbacks might not be a big issue. They dont have to be proactive in this game, they can wait for Argentina..and it would make sense to, because so far Argentina have struggled to create chances without being on the counter attack and so far them seem very happy to knock the ball around in front of the opponant, keeping possession. So I dont expect the Belguim CB's playing fullback to get isolated much and have to be exposed by their lack of pace.

So, while I still dont rate Belgium much and think they have been even worse than I thought they would be..they obviously arent the favourites but have the possibility to win a tight, narrow margin win.


Thanks dani. Nothing to disagree. Argentina may be better served to let Belgium have the ball and hit them on the counter attack. Our ball playing in general is poor.

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Post by neuro11 Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:25 pm

nice post dani.

We made three changes.....Gago,Rojo and Farnandez out.....I expected such kind of changes in last group game but now its a way too much risk i think. i wish Demichellis put one of his best performance...

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Post by The Franchise Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:28 pm

Thanks neuro.

Yes, those are some interesting and maybe dangerous changes.

I have faith in Demi for some reason, but I do worry about him if he gets isolated because Garay isnt no speed demon either.
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Post by neuro11 Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:35 pm

While i dont have too much objection vs Demi because he is not worse atleast and vs basanta because we are just forced to do so, i wonder at the decision of playing Biglia. gago might be quiet in few games but his experience could have helped in such later stage of the tournament.

Have you seen Biglia before?....what type of player he is?? how is he going forward and in terms of passing accuracy?

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Post by The Franchise Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:47 pm

I dont know about Biglia, only the few sub appearances I caught here and there and dont have much of a view on him.

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Post by M99 Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:26 pm

According to Fox News, Di Maria will miss the rest of the World Cup due to a muscle tear. Nothing is official yet as he will undergo tests tomorrow.
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Post by shinigami99 Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:39 pm

RIP in peace our WC ambitions Sad

Though I think because of this Sabella will go even more defensive.
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Post by Ganso Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:57 pm

it's official now, he is out of the semi and 3rd place match
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:04 pm

dat subtle troll....

He's out, but Brazil is missing Nerman, Germany is missing Reus. No excuses.
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Post by Casciavit Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:56 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:dat subtle troll....

He's out, but Brazil is missing Nerman, Germany is missing Reus. No excuses.


Is it official?

Sabella said Di Maria would take tests tomorrow.
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Post by shinigami99 Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:41 am

Di Maria is pretty much out, but may make the Final if we make it. Aguero looks likely to start on the bench against the Dutch:

http://www.mundoalbiceleste.com/Article.aspx?id=3964&title=agero-is-back-di-maria-out-for-now
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:58 am

@The Franchise wrote:Think changes are necessary but it is clear there cant be anything to dramatic at this stage. The answer too isnt that 5 man backline disaster formation.

For me, Messi is getting tightly marked because if teams didnt know already, they know now he is the center of this team's universe. He is the un-questioned leader of this team and they look for him as much as possible, he responds by providing more movement than he does for Barca. He wont ever run in behind or sprint to spaces anymore (unless it is for a tap in chance) but he looks for the ball with a positive body language and coming to meet the ball, rather than allowing himself to be marked.

In any event, he is getting alot of attention.

I think they missed Aguero's presence, even if wasnt doing anything of any note when he was in. But the change in system did hurt a side which was already struggling.

Lavezzi plays wider and makes different kinds of runs than Aguero. He engages different players on the field, namely the rightback. Whereas Aguero draws the ire of CB's and deeper midfielders.

With Higuain in, this keeps the CB's in place and off Messi, which is positive. However, when Aguero is there too, the CB's dont want a 2 v 2 vs these two and a deep midfielder will always keep Aguero in his mind. Now of course, the rightback track Aguero easily enough because Argentina dont have a leftwinger, but this opens up Di Maria who from midfield loves to make that run out to the left.

This natural positioning provides movement without any real thought, it can naturally occur.

Vs the Swiss, he (Di Maria) was on the right and not the midfield. So it allowed the midfielders to concentrate on Messi, knowing Gago and Mascherano will stay deep with the ball and not make forward runs.

I think they need to get Palacio in there, but not as a winger, but directly as an Aguero replacement.



Zab------------------Fernandez----------Garay---------Basanta

-----------------Gago---------Mascherano--------------Di Maria---

----------------------------------Messi----------------------------------

-----------------------Higuain----------------Palacio-----------------------





Nice analysis as usual Dani Very Happy I always like Palacio, after he came on and especially for the goal obviously he helped and started that run onto Messi onto the assist. He can be a handful and hopefully can create similar problems as u said for the opposition. Lavezzi does his defensive work though and knowing the coaches to want to be more safe and cautious problem Lavezzi starts and then Palacio sub later on.
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Post by neuro11 Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:37 pm

Rojo is back and i think Demichellis will start instead of farnandez after a decent game vs belgium even though he was not as much tested as he will be in next game. but its highly likely that he also will start....Who will replace Di Maria....???

Only options are :
Perez
Maxi
Gago (considering Biglia is a starter)
Alvarez

to be honest only real option is Perez who played only 65 mins....Don know how would we threat Holland with this midfield :facepalm: ....I really now hope aguero is back with his power....

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:19 pm

Messi should give back the captaincy to Mascherano. He never stopped being the true captain.
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