La Selección Argentina V.2

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Post by Ganso Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:41 pm

Aguero is out of the WC according to Clarin

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Post by neuro11 Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:43 pm

Ganso wrote:Aguero is out of the WC according to Clarin

thats blessings in disguise....he is not deadly right now...he was a statue in all three games and Sabella would not use lavezzi had he been able to continue...Lavezzi might not replace fully fit Aguero but certainly can improve the half fit one.

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Post by LeVersacci Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:45 pm

Rojo is so shit. No wonder he's 74 in fifa.

Aguero has been terrible in this WC so Lavezzi >>>
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Post by LeVersacci Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:46 pm

Oh and Palacio should start ahead of Higuain imo.
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Post by neuro11 Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:47 pm

LeVersacci wrote:Oh and Palacio should start ahead of Higuain imo.

Agreed...but higuain need to get injured for that  Laughing 

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:54 pm

Pls Higgy had a great game against Nigeria. He is on the rise. Agreed that agüero out could be a blessing in disguise but I'm still very sad for him. With Lavezzi playing though I really hope the system will be a 4231 drop now on.

Also the guy that said that Rojo is shut has clearly not seen a single Argentina game.
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Post by shinigami99 Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:05 pm

Rojo has been a pleasant surprise this tournament. With FF, Garay, Higuain, and Rojo, we're actually somewhat of a threat from corners and he's actually not too bad in defence. Granted, this is against Bosnia, Nigeria and Iran but still. He sucked less than the others (cept Garay prolly-Fernandez has been screwing up this WC)
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Post by halamadrid2 Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:27 pm

you need your players to know the definition of placing the ball before you can be considered as a threat from set pieces. how many times have garay, fernandez, rojo headed the ball over/out from free headers?? there has been some absolutely brilliant delivery by the headers have been dissapointing
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Post by neuro11 Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:23 am

halamadrid2 wrote:you need your players to know the definition of placing the ball before you can be considered as a threat from set pieces. how many times have garay, fernandez, rojo headed the ball over/out from free headers?? there has been some absolutely brilliant delivery by the headers have been dissapointing


The way you are talking, if true, there would be dozens of goals almost in every match. But tell me in total how many goals from corner happened, or which one is the best team in terms of converting corners into goals and what is their accuracy???
It does not work that way, either players' headings are terrible or the ball is placed in the wrong place. its a common issue in corners.
that being said, i would say i am not etirely convinced with our usage of set peices. we have taller players and i expect us to scare opponent more. so far their attempts were good but not excellent...

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Post by halamadrid2 Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:58 am

The thing is the players make contact with the ball but their headers have been bad, you'd expect them to at least test the goalkeeper but nearly all have been wayward. I am not saying score on all set pieces but when the majority don't aren't even directed towards the goal it makes you question them
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Post by Collblanc Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:48 am

halamadrid2 wrote:you need your players to know the definition of placing the ball before you can be considered as a threat from set pieces. how many times have garay, fernandez, rojo headed the ball over/out from free headers?? there has been some absolutely brilliant delivery by the headers have been dissapointing


agreed. messi have been dropping the ball on the penalty spot every single time. brilliant delivery every time, need to get more out of those cornerkicks
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Post by shinigami99 Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:38 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:you need your players to know the definition of placing the ball before you can be considered as a threat from set pieces. how many times have garay, fernandez, rojo headed the ball over/out from free headers?? there has been some absolutely brilliant delivery by the headers have been dissapointing


Oh I know our heading/finishing from corners have been bad. However, the fact is that we have tall players who are willing to fight for corners and we have Di Maria and Messi who can put it  on a plate all day long. That's why I say we are a threat, but I didn't say we were deadly since we haven't been very efficient with converting those chances.
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:47 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm hesitant to post this because GL jinx, but aside Messi the two standout players for us have so far been Romero and Rojo. Sabella, I never should have doubted you :bow:

I think Mascherano has been good. However most of our players are so below their levels that we somehow still look like a one man team in spite of having some other big names in football.


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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:51 pm

Donuts wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:What was that slow mo of Lavezzi spraying water into Sabella's face when Sabella was barking him instructions? If on purpose it was very dsrespectfulto the manager!

that is his type of humor, according to my commentators, there was also a video of him pranking a sleeping staff member by slapping him awake.
he's a little crazy to do that to his manager.

He later said the heat and pressure were getting to the manager and he was trying to cool him down. Smile


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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:20 pm

Forgot to say this yesterday but must do so now.

This 4-2-3-1 looks mouth watering and it should now make us play well as a team. Di Maria and Lavezzi using their persistence, speed and skill on each flank. Messi's genius is beyond words. Even Higuain might come good. Gago does not stamp his authority and isn't a player to write volumes about but when given space he can pick out a nice pass. Mascherano may not be the most technically gifted player but he is a tiger and we need at least one like him to win this world cup. Rojo has surprisingly done well. Zabaleta I can almost bet money on to improve. Romero has not disappointed. The biggest concern is the central defence or more specifically Federico Fernandez. If he stays in the line up and plays as he is doing he could single handedly cost us the world cup.

Overall though this looks good. For years many have been saying Argentina should play in a 4-2-3-1. We don't have the players to play a possession based game. So trying to over do that can cause massive problems. We must rely on our speed and skill to counter attack. If this line up functions at it's best then there isn't a team in this tournament who we can't knock out.

GO ARGENTINA !!!

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Post by neuro11 Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Well explained,JD. I really was glad to see Lavezzi coming in and did not feel worried at all with Aguero out. Lavezzi while not as deadly as a fit Aguero is a workhorse without any doubt. while playing on the right, the guy will certainly pull off a lot fouls which is a plus. the first goal vs Nigeria started with a brilliant pass from the mid that Di Maria utilized with his speed. btw, is Di maria our worst player in one on one. he missed some easy chances and those miss looked terrible to me considering his level.

Its also a shame that we dont have a convincing CB in entire Argentina. Demichellis is so unpredictable otherwise the guy often put a world class performance at times.

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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:34 pm

Thanks neuro. Who made that great pass from midfield? Was that Gago? Di Maria may not be the best finisher but his finding form at the right time is good news for us.


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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:01 pm

I've got a question, something I guess I've always wondered - but now I remembered and it's a good thime to ask:

What happened with Pekerman as Argentina coach after 2006 - was he fired or why did he leave? How did this unfold?
Because the way I remember it Argentina were such a breathtaking team then, the best team in the tournament I thought until we kicked them out as underdogs.

Were people pissed he subbed off Riquelme or what?

Because Argentine (I don't see qualification games I have to say) never looked NEARLY as good since then, as a 'team' you were a joke under Maradona in 2010, and so far this tournament you're not looking like a good team either.
Back then you were flowing like crazy and so promising, cut short by us of course but somehow I always wondere how that can be a final measurement, that was a underdog win by a inferior home team after all hmm
Should you maybe have contined with him or were there other things happening? I need some context...
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:24 pm

Yeah he quit after the Germany defeat, although Grondona (the Argentina FA mafia leader) wanted to keep him around. One of the most important things he did was the youth setup which under his leadership won a huge amount of U20 WCs, but soon after he left the way he had set things up was dismantled and now it is a wreck. Sabella is the first coach since then that actually has the CV to coach Argentina.

Hope he takes Colombia past Brazil, they play some great football unlike the "jogo bonito" country.


Last edited by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:26 pm

OUCH that avatar hurts even for me rofl

SORRY BC  Embarassed 
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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:28 pm

Hans, Pekerman was not fired. He quit himself. Julio Grondona tried very hard to keep him but he totally refused. He was probably very irritated by the blame coming his way for the exit and felt it was time he got himself rid of that kind of pressure. That's when AFA reluctantly appointed Alfio Basile. He also continued to make the team play beautifully as in Copa America 2007 where surprisingly a much weaker on paper Brazil beat us in the final. All this had damaging consequences. Basile continued but he seemed to be outdated and once the WC 2010 qualification campaign began to flounder IIRC he left himself and wasn't fired as such. That's when Maradona was given the job and after that the less I say the better.

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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:30 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Hope he takes Colombia past Brazil, they play some great football unlike the "jogo bonito" country.

THIS


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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:30 pm

ok, but how were feelings then? Was it split public opinion? Was there debate, is there regret?
Because to me, the difference in how good you played then and how bad (as a team) you played since (when I saw you) is painfully obvious..
So there must have been thoughts of rehiring him or something?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:31 pm

mxi, thanks, that's what I wondered.
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Post by neuro11 Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:25 am

messixaviesta wrote:Thanks neuro. Who made that great pass from midfield? Was that Gago? Di Maria may not be the best finisher but his finding form at the right time is good news for us.



No, i think it was Mashcherano....

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Post by neuro11 Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:31 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:ok, but how were feelings then? Was it split public opinion? Was there debate, is there regret?
Because to me, the difference in how good you played then and how bad (as a team) you played since (when I saw you) is painfully obvious..
So there must have been thoughts of rehiring him or something?

Good question, why Argentina did not hire him back. He took job of Colombia in 2012. So right after the disaster of Maradona in 2010 it was still possible to hire him.
However i do not think Sabella is doing any worse. The advantage of pekerman in 2006 was he had an encredibly good number of players as well. Look at our 23 men squad back then. Even a star Messi spent entire time on bench.
This time its completely oppositie. So i doubt even with Pekerman there would be huge difference this time around. Ofcourse if you are talking of him being coach for long time, thats different. May be he would be able to bring out new talent, as BC mentioned his contribution for the youth set up.

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