Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
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Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by terrance511 Wed May 21, 2014 11:04 am
Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
It will be hailed as Carlo Ancelotti’s greatest achievement but victory on Saturday would owe as much to domestic failure as superiority in European competition
COMMENT
By Tony Mahoney
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/05/21/4829864/dustbin-decima-real-madrid-winning-in-lisbon-will-devalue?ICID=HP_HN_1
It will be hailed as Carlo Ancelotti’s greatest achievement but victory on Saturday would owe as much to domestic failure as superiority in European competition
COMMENT
By Tony Mahoney
- oh:
When the Champions League was expanded in 1997, there was a major outcry over the decision to include clubs that had not won their domestic titles.
How can the champions of Europe not be the champions of their own territory? It makes a mockery of the competition, said the critics.
The answer from Uefa chiefs and their supporters was that cream generally rises to the top and, in most years, the winner will be the champion team of their country - either in the season of qualification or the season of competition.
As our graphic demonstrates, Uefa has generally been proved right. On only five occasions since the revamp has the competition been won by a side who were neither the current or previous domestic title holders.
To land a league and Champions League double in the same campaign is the ultimate achievement in club football and the eight teams to have achieved this since 1997/8 deserve to be ranked as the greatest of all Champions League winners.
To follow up a domestic title success with a Champions League win is also laudable – indeed, it was the entry criterion for the previous format – so, again, those sides are well worthy of the ‘Champions of Europe’ tag.
Which brings us to the five exceptions - and this is where the format critics have their “I told you so” moment. How can Europe truly hail Liverpool as its champions of 2005 when they finished fourth in the Premier League to qualify and fifth in the season of their triumph?
They are dustbin winners, much like Real Madrid (2000), AC Milan (2003, 2007) and Chelsea (2012). Coaches sacrificed domestic campaigns to prioritise the knockout stages of the Champions League.
Great achievements for the clubs involved; not so great for the reputation of Europe’s elite competition. Indeed, Chelsea held so little value to their success that Roberto Di Matteo was out of work within six months of the final.
Despite spending more money on transfers than any club in the history of football, Real Madrid are the third-best team in Spain. Last year, they were the second-best.
But they are favourites going into Saturday’s final against the No.1 team in Spain by virtue of their own domestic failings - which have allowed coach Carlo Ancelotti to rest key players.
Atletico Madrid, in contrast, were at full throttle until the final kick of the Liga season last Saturday prior to being crowned champions. Their top scorer, Diego Costa, is injured.
The stars are aligning for Ancelotti but, if Real Madrid do return to the pantheon of Champions League winners by claiming that elusive Decima, they will do so by re-entering the dustbin.
History will view it as little more than the triumph of a cup specialist and all who railed against the Uefa format change 17 years ago will shrug with knowing disapproval.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/05/21/4829864/dustbin-decima-real-madrid-winning-in-lisbon-will-devalue?ICID=HP_HN_1
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by rwo power Wed May 21, 2014 11:05 am
Goal.com posting troll articles for more more clicks again...
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by jibers Wed May 21, 2014 11:09 am
Well tbh, non of those Real Madrid teams are in talks of being the greatest teams of all time. Madrid fans would not care at the end of the day. Only football historians will have some 'investment' in the outcome. Noone really cares. If Madrid win it they will have the 10th and will further reinforce their rightful claim as the most prestigious club football history. This obsession with best of all time teams man nothing to the teams at the time. It is times like these you can make a clear distinction between those that have played the sports and those that write about it.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by zigra Wed May 21, 2014 11:18 am
"How can the champions of Europe not be the champions of their own territory? "
Tbh no matter what you call it at the end of the day it's just a cup and you don't become champion of anything in football by winning a cup. There is no european champion. Just a cup winner.
Tbh no matter what you call it at the end of the day it's just a cup and you don't become champion of anything in football by winning a cup. There is no european champion. Just a cup winner.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by jibers Wed May 21, 2014 11:26 am
zigra wrote:"How can the champions of Europe not be the champions of their own territory? "
Tbh no matter what you call it at the end of the day it's just a cup and you don't become champion of anything in football by winning a cup. There is no european champion. Just a cup winner.
100% Agreed.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by rwo power Wed May 21, 2014 11:44 am
BTW, if Atletico win, then everything is fine anyway. So one should probably wait until the CL final is over 
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Le Samourai Wed May 21, 2014 11:50 am
terrance511 wrote:Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
It will be hailed as Carlo Ancelotti’s greatest achievement but victory on Saturday would owe as much to domestic failure as superiority in European competition
COMMENT
By Tony Mahoney
- oh:
When the Champions League was expanded in 1997, there was a major outcry over the decision to include clubs that had not won their domestic titles.
How can the champions of Europe not be the champions of their own territory? It makes a mockery of the competition, said the critics.
The answer from Uefa chiefs and their supporters was that cream generally rises to the top and, in most years, the winner will be the champion team of their country - either in the season of qualification or the season of competition.
As our graphic demonstrates, Uefa has generally been proved right. On only five occasions since the revamp has the competition been won by a side who were neither the current or previous domestic title holders.
To land a league and Champions League double in the same campaign is the ultimate achievement in club football and the eight teams to have achieved this since 1997/8 deserve to be ranked as the greatest of all Champions League winners.
To follow up a domestic title success with a Champions League win is also laudable – indeed, it was the entry criterion for the previous format – so, again, those sides are well worthy of the ‘Champions of Europe’ tag.
Which brings us to the five exceptions - and this is where the format critics have their “I told you so” moment. How can Europe truly hail Liverpool as its champions of 2005 when they finished fourth in the Premier League to qualify and fifth in the season of their triumph?
They are dustbin winners, much like Real Madrid (2000), AC Milan (2003, 2007) and Chelsea (2012). Coaches sacrificed domestic campaigns to prioritise the knockout stages of the Champions League.
Great achievements for the clubs involved; not so great for the reputation of Europe’s elite competition. Indeed, Chelsea held so little value to their success that Roberto Di Matteo was out of work within six months of the final.
Despite spending more money on transfers than any club in the history of football, Real Madrid are the third-best team in Spain. Last year, they were the second-best.
But they are favourites going into Saturday’s final against the No.1 team in Spain by virtue of their own domestic failings - which have allowed coach Carlo Ancelotti to rest key players.
Atletico Madrid, in contrast, were at full throttle until the final kick of the Liga season last Saturday prior to being crowned champions. Their top scorer, Diego Costa, is injured.
The stars are aligning for Ancelotti but, if Real Madrid do return to the pantheon of Champions League winners by claiming that elusive Decima, they will do so by re-entering the dustbin.
History will view it as little more than the triumph of a cup specialist and all who railed against the Uefa format change 17 years ago will shrug with knowing disapproval.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/05/21/4829864/dustbin-decima-real-madrid-winning-in-lisbon-will-devalue?ICID=HP_HN_1
Toney Mahoney ffs
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by M99 Wed May 21, 2014 12:08 pm
rwo power wrote:Goal.com posting troll articles for more more clicks again...
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Lord Spencer Wed May 21, 2014 12:08 pm
Including Milan, who were the by far the greatest European team 2003-2007, and only were second best to two deep sides in Juve and Inter automatically devalues this article's argument.
That being said, the moment a team enters the CL by its own right, it automatically deserves being the champion if it wins it. Saying anything else about that is just pure stupidity.
That being said, the moment a team enters the CL by its own right, it automatically deserves being the champion if it wins it. Saying anything else about that is just pure stupidity.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by zenmaster Wed May 21, 2014 12:36 pm
terrance511 wrote:Dustbin Decima
http://p1.zopnow.com/images/products/320/princeware-princeware-round-mini-dustbin-7-ltr-1.png
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by windkick Wed May 21, 2014 2:05 pm
On the other hand, if Atletico pull it off it would be an awesome story. Bales and CR7 transfers were probably higher than the entire cost of the Atleticos starting 11 lol
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Vibe Wed May 21, 2014 2:54 pm
I read somewhere that QPR annual wage budget is 78 million while Atletico's is 54.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by jibers Wed May 21, 2014 2:54 pm
windkick wrote:On the other hand, if Atletico pull it off it would be an awesome story. Bales and CR7 transfers were probably higher than the entire cost of the Atleticos starting 11 lol
As was Neymars...
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Forza Wed May 21, 2014 2:59 pm
M99 wrote:rwo power wrote:Goal.com posting troll articles for more more clicks again...
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by The_Badger Wed May 21, 2014 3:01 pm
People on Goal.com know more about football than the people on here. 
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by che Wed May 21, 2014 4:02 pm
Lord Spencer wrote:Including Milan, who were the by far the greatest European team 2003-2007, and only were second best to two deep sides in Juve and Inter automatically devalues this article's argument.
so they were the best but they were second best to two different teams?
trollish as the article is it does have a point... maybe not so much for madrid who still put up a respectable fight for the title, but the chelsea win where they were resting players for cl since like march was an absolute joke... liverpool to a certain extent too, but i'd say that was more of an excellent tournament achievement on their part, since finishing 5th in the league was about par for the course for a team that regularly started djimi traore, stephen warnock, baros and sinama pongolle
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Mr Nick09 Wed May 21, 2014 4:09 pm
lol che, the guy has no point. The Champions league is a cup tournament that has nothing to do with a league competition. We win the league on consistency and accumulating the most points, meaning, you can lose to the best teams but if you make sure to crush the fodder teams, u still win it.
In CL you have beat whichever team is in front of you to go through and to win it.
let's take the question in reverse. What does it say about atletico if they win the league and still cant beat us in a final?
In CL you have beat whichever team is in front of you to go through and to win it.
let's take the question in reverse. What does it say about atletico if they win the league and still cant beat us in a final?
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by che Wed May 21, 2014 4:13 pm
pretty much exactly the same thing it says about madrid if they win the cl but not the league... best in spain with an asterisk, and best in europe with an asterisk
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Mr Nick09 Wed May 21, 2014 4:29 pm
winning the league or the CL doesnt make you the best of anything.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by windkick Wed May 21, 2014 4:31 pm
jibers wrote:windkick wrote:On the other hand, if Atletico pull it off it would be an awesome story. Bales and CR7 transfers were probably higher than the entire cost of the Atleticos starting 11 lol
As was Neymars...
Exactly my point. Their run has been amazing and very admirable and I hope they complete the double
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Onyx Wed May 21, 2014 4:32 pm
I think the author is taking the tagline 'being champions of Europe' too literally. At the end of the day both are 2 separate competitions and aren't linked in any way. I don't think winning the CL and not winning the league devalues the CL.
However in order to be close to being the undisputed best team, I think a club has to win both the league and the CL.
However in order to be close to being the undisputed best team, I think a club has to win both the league and the CL.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Lord Spencer Wed May 21, 2014 4:55 pm
che wrote:Lord Spencer wrote:Including Milan, who were the by far the greatest European team 2003-2007, and only were second best to two deep sides in Juve and Inter automatically devalues this article's argument.
so they were the best but they were second best to two different teams?
trollish as the article is it does have a point... maybe not so much for madrid who still put up a respectable fight for the title, but the chelsea win where they were resting players for cl since like march was an absolute joke... liverpool to a certain extent too, but i'd say that was more of an excellent tournament achievement on their part, since finishing 5th in the league was about par for the course for a team that regularly started djimi traore, stephen warnock, baros and sinama pongolle
Milan was better than both teams, but both teams were better than scrubs. A League campaign depends on depth, form, and consistency. A cup campaign depends on playing your best game and hoping you get lucky. From 2003 to 2007, Milan simply dominated in Europe (like Barca did in Pep's Era). However, Juve had less European load to deal with (in account of getting out early) and a larger squad. Then we get Inter and the Calciopoli scandal.
A Team winning the leauge depends on other teams than its own, but a cup is entirely in one's own hand. Also, freak incidents like Liverpool's CL win shouldn't be the yard stick we measure the competition's worth by.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Lord Spencer Wed May 21, 2014 4:59 pm
On topic of undisputed best teams.
I think winning both the league and CL "regularly" for a period of years is the mark of an undisputed team. IMO, Milan 2003-2007 were the best cup team, but they did not have the depth to regularly win in Serie A.
In contrast, Milan 1988-95 were probably the best in Europe in that time-frame, as well as Barca 2008-2011.
I think winning both the league and CL "regularly" for a period of years is the mark of an undisputed team. IMO, Milan 2003-2007 were the best cup team, but they did not have the depth to regularly win in Serie A.
In contrast, Milan 1988-95 were probably the best in Europe in that time-frame, as well as Barca 2008-2011.
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Valkyrja Wed May 21, 2014 5:06 pm
We are BuLi champions
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
by Lord Awesome Thu May 22, 2014 4:28 am
Should change his name to Tony Baloney. His article is certainly full of it. 
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Re: Dustbin Decima: Real Madrid winning in Lisbon will devalue Champions League
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