The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
You're points, in this case, are more specific. However, your second and third paragraph essentially butresses my initial point.
Your first papragraph does not apply to Wenger at all. The aforementioned managers are very successful and their accolades support this. Wenger hasn't won anything since 2005. He is not in a position to make small adjustments, as he'll probably tell you that he's been making small adjustments since 2005...which coincedentally haven't produced anything. It boils down to tactics and strategy. Hence why I say his are out-dated.
For example, When big teams lose to lower teams - and this does happen - a lot of it is the way the lower team's pitch their tent. It could be argued that the bigger teams simply failed to execute their game plan, or just underestimated the oppostion.
Take Utd, for example, the reason they had such a horrid season wasn't because of the personnel. It was because Moyes didn't know how to get the best out of his players. Yet Fergie managed too, months prior. Moyes's strategy were useless. As were his tactics. He had the exact same squad with the additon of Feilllani.
Chelsea were guilty of blowing winnable games. They took good point of top teams like Utd, us and Chelsea. But droppped point to a relegated Norwich etc. Unacceptable considering it was only like 2 weeks ago. They didn't show urdency nor were they able to adapt effectively enough.
Why is it that Wilshere is inept? Arteta isn't good at what he does because he isn't a DM. Flamini is a DM that get's overlooked when his attributes should be utilised as opposed to Arteta's. Teams look at this and know that due to our tactics, all they have to do is pressure Wilshere as he advances forward, box in Arteta, then make them hit it long to Giroud. Jenko and Sanogoal aren't ready. Period. I won't even discuss them lol.
But then there's the issue with playing Cazorla against pressing teams. Playing a deep-line, while Giroud plays so far forward with no runners around him, while we have Gnabry on the bench (This happened a few times). It creates a large gap in the middle of the park. Just examples of our disjointed set-up.
Agree with some of your points, but to say it isn't strategic and tactical...come on, man.
Wenger has overrated his players for ages. And, frankly, there's nothing wrong with that. My main concern is the way he wants them to play knowing full well they aren't capable of doing so.
Your first papragraph does not apply to Wenger at all. The aforementioned managers are very successful and their accolades support this. Wenger hasn't won anything since 2005. He is not in a position to make small adjustments, as he'll probably tell you that he's been making small adjustments since 2005...which coincedentally haven't produced anything. It boils down to tactics and strategy. Hence why I say his are out-dated.
For example, When big teams lose to lower teams - and this does happen - a lot of it is the way the lower team's pitch their tent. It could be argued that the bigger teams simply failed to execute their game plan, or just underestimated the oppostion.
Take Utd, for example, the reason they had such a horrid season wasn't because of the personnel. It was because Moyes didn't know how to get the best out of his players. Yet Fergie managed too, months prior. Moyes's strategy were useless. As were his tactics. He had the exact same squad with the additon of Feilllani.
Chelsea were guilty of blowing winnable games. They took good point of top teams like Utd, us and Chelsea. But droppped point to a relegated Norwich etc. Unacceptable considering it was only like 2 weeks ago. They didn't show urdency nor were they able to adapt effectively enough.
Why is it that Wilshere is inept? Arteta isn't good at what he does because he isn't a DM. Flamini is a DM that get's overlooked when his attributes should be utilised as opposed to Arteta's. Teams look at this and know that due to our tactics, all they have to do is pressure Wilshere as he advances forward, box in Arteta, then make them hit it long to Giroud. Jenko and Sanogoal aren't ready. Period. I won't even discuss them lol.
But then there's the issue with playing Cazorla against pressing teams. Playing a deep-line, while Giroud plays so far forward with no runners around him, while we have Gnabry on the bench (This happened a few times). It creates a large gap in the middle of the park. Just examples of our disjointed set-up.
Agree with some of your points, but to say it isn't strategic and tactical...come on, man.
Wenger has overrated his players for ages. And, frankly, there's nothing wrong with that. My main concern is the way he wants them to play knowing full well they aren't capable of doing so.
SUPERCARTTS- Starlet
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Wenger could have gone to Madrid and he refused out of loyalty to Arsenal. Same with PSG. I guarantee you he would have won several trophies with those clubs because they have elite talent and spend like elite clubs.
Arsenal were unable to spend from 2005 until 2012 because of the debt issues surrounding the new stadium. Summer of 2013 is the first time that Arsenal had a decent transfer budget in a long time.
Philosophy AND talent wins you trophies. You can't win consistently without one or the other unless you luck out and get a golden youth generation like Dortmund and Barca had who remain loyal for a long enough period.
Arsenal were unable to spend from 2005 until 2012 because of the debt issues surrounding the new stadium. Summer of 2013 is the first time that Arsenal had a decent transfer budget in a long time.
Philosophy AND talent wins you trophies. You can't win consistently without one or the other unless you luck out and get a golden youth generation like Dortmund and Barca had who remain loyal for a long enough period.
sportsczy- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
sportsczy wrote:Oh come on. Wenger paid up for Ozil. I think he'll do it again this summmer for another player... Madrid seems like a good place to buy
Yea, do you see Wenger spending 40m again?
Raptorgunner- World Class Contributor
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
YeapRaptorgunner wrote:sportsczy wrote:Oh come on. Wenger paid up for Ozil. I think he'll do it again this summmer for another player... Madrid seems like a good place to buy
Yea, do you see Wenger spending 40m again?
Wenger will spend.. He just needs to believe in the player.. He won't go all out for just anyone, just because they are the flavor of the month and everyone is shouting for Wenger to sign him. He will go hard after Benz. He's awesome, he's french.. and l think Wenger will see the value of signing him for whatever he costs. lf Madrid is willing to part with him and Benz himself wants to leave we'll get him.
Last edited by VendettaRed07 on Thu 15 May 2014, 16:56; edited 2 times in total
VendettaRed07- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Remember guys Wenger might not be in charge next season as he is to sign a new contract.
djoe26- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
SUPERCARTTS wrote:Even if Wenger signed:
Benz
Schinederlin
Aurier
Vela
GK
We still won't win the league...
FFs.. What a depressed bunch we are.
lf we have that great of a summer and still don't believe we can win the league after being in first for over 120 days last year than wtf can we do to think we can? Have faith. lf we sign all those guys, depending on who the Gk is, and if we manage to sneak in a young CB as well.. lt'll be the best summer we have EVER had.. not even a question
VendettaRed07- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Tbh I have always preferred Higuain over Benzema. Like you said, I think Higgy is a better finisher than Benz.bloodless wrote:Honestly don't feel like benzema is what we need, he is a horrible finisher! Higuain would have been a much better player for us without a doubt.....We suffered this year in the big games and someone to score for us basically and I honestly don't see benzema coming in and scoring 35 goals in a season....it's not who he is.
On Vela it will be the craziest thing if we really have a 4mill pound buy back clause and we don't use it...that would be insane, I would even bring him back and sell podolski if the wage bill is the issue...
I'm not too hyped about these Benzema rumours tbh. Lol even last summer window I said that I'd prefer Michu over Benzema.
El Gunner- An Oakland City Warrior
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Raptorgunner wrote:Aurier and Vela are the only players I can see Wenger signing. Money does not change Wenger, he is still the same. Don't really expect much from Wenger anymore. I laugh when I hear Benzema and other top players.
I honestly have no clue how anyone can still say things like this when Özil was only one window ago.
People take for granted what a huge galvanizing move that was and now with new commercial deals and sponsorships we have even more potential to attract top talent. If it helps your ego to pretend otherwise then so be it but the reality is there.
And Benzema is most definitely superior to Higuain. His ceiling is much higher and although his physical movement might be different, he's more complete. Better technique and vision even. Would be my first pick of strikers outside of the top 5 (Ibra, RVP, Suarez..)
MJ- Fan Favorite
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Gifs of all Carlos Vela goals this season https://imgur.com/a/c4r4h/all
&Assists https://imgur.com/a/4r94y#0
via @MLIBagalwadi
&Assists https://imgur.com/a/4r94y#0
via @MLIBagalwadi
Sina- Fan Favorite
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
why the bleep wont wenger sign another 40m+ player? he's done it before, now no reason for him not to do it again. before we didnt have the funds, now we do, its that simple.
REWB- Fan Favorite
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
If we get embarrassed in our first game again sure.Raptorgunner wrote:sportsczy wrote:Oh come on. Wenger paid up for Ozil. I think he'll do it again this summmer for another player... Madrid seems like a good place to buy
Yea, do you see Wenger spending 40m again?
6unner- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
VendettaRed07 wrote:SUPERCARTTS wrote:Even if Wenger signed:
Benz
Schinederlin
Aurier
Vela
GK
We still won't win the league...
FFs.. What a depressed bunch we are.
lf we have that great of a summer and still don't believe we can win the league after being in first for over 120 days last year than wtf can we do to think we can? Have faith. lf we sign all those guys, depending on who the Gk is, and if we manage to sneak in a young CB as well.. lt'll be the best summer we have EVER had.. not even a question
I think that some put to much into us leading the league for the 120 days. It is not hard to see that a major reason for that was managerial changes in the top teams. After chelsea and city started getting acclimated our record started to slowly erode.
6unner- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
6unner wrote:If we get embarrassed in our first game again sure.Raptorgunner wrote:sportsczy wrote:Oh come on. Wenger paid up for Ozil. I think he'll do it again this summmer for another player... Madrid seems like a good place to buy
Yea, do you see Wenger spending 40m again?
What you talking about, that game had nothing to do with Wenger going against his principles and spending money.
The funny thing is he had everything planed out, and was hoping for a win so he wont have to spend and it backfired on him and was forced to buy a player for 40m, nothing new under the sun..
I am just scared Wenger will punish us for Ozil buy and not add anyone. I think we got a small punishment January when he signed an injured player.
Raptorgunner- World Class Contributor
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
This is what Wenger said in January I believe, I cant find the quote.
Wenger said he will not sign Karim Benzema, since he and Olivier Giroud are both competing for the same place in France's World Cup squad. Wenger insists that similar competition at the club would be to the detriment of both strikers and he is therefore looking elsewhere to strengthen his attack.
Wenger said he will not sign Karim Benzema, since he and Olivier Giroud are both competing for the same place in France's World Cup squad. Wenger insists that similar competition at the club would be to the detriment of both strikers and he is therefore looking elsewhere to strengthen his attack.
Last edited by Raptorgunner on Thu 15 May 2014, 22:51; edited 1 time in total
Raptorgunner- World Class Contributor
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
imagine Girouds presence blocking Benz move to Arsenal
loan him to QPR ffs
but then again he himself confessed that Arsenal need a better striker
loan him to QPR ffs
but then again he himself confessed that Arsenal need a better striker
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Sina wrote:imagine Girouds presence blocking Benz move to Arsenal
loan him to QPR ffs
but then again he himself confessed that Arsenal need a better striker
I am trying to find the interview.
Wenger said: “Giroud and Benzema can play together. But up until now, their partnership has not worked so they must find another way.
“It’s always hard. But you must have guys who are giving good assists as well as guys who score.”
Not sure if this is the right interview though.
Raptorgunner- World Class Contributor
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
6unner wrote:VendettaRed07 wrote:SUPERCARTTS wrote:Even if Wenger signed:
Benz
Schinederlin
Aurier
Vela
GK
We still won't win the league...
FFs.. What a depressed bunch we are.
lf we have that great of a summer and still don't believe we can win the league after being in first for over 120 days last year than wtf can we do to think we can? Have faith. lf we sign all those guys, depending on who the Gk is, and if we manage to sneak in a young CB as well.. lt'll be the best summer we have EVER had.. not even a question
I think that some put to much into us leading the league for the 120 days. It is not hard to see that a major reason for that was managerial changes in the top teams. After chelsea and city started getting acclimated our record started to slowly erode.
LOL.
You do realize that we got 3/18 points vs Chelsea, City AND United?
Let them acclimate and progress and gel and whatever, we can't be worse than we were against them this season. Their teams getting their acts together won't have an effect on us vs the rest of the league. As long as we keep playing against the other 16 teams the way we did this season then all we need is to improve (which we definitely can) against those three.
Especially if we add quality depth. And win the FA Cup.
MJ- Fan Favorite
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
I bet at least one signing this summer will be something totally out of left field ... a rumor that hasn't been put forward yet, at least not with any seriousness or credibility.
Chumlum- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
MJGunner wrote:Raptorgunner wrote:Aurier and Vela are the only players I can see Wenger signing. Money does not change Wenger, he is still the same. Don't really expect much from Wenger anymore. I laugh when I hear Benzema and other top players.
I honestly have no clue how anyone can still say things like this when Özil was only one window ago.
People take for granted what a huge galvanizing move that was and now with new commercial deals and sponsorships we have even more potential to attract top talent. If it helps your ego to pretend otherwise then so be it but the reality is there.
And Benzema is most definitely superior to Higuain. His ceiling is much higher and although his physical movement might be different, he's more complete. Better technique and vision even. Would be my first pick of strikers outside of the top 5 (Ibra, RVP, Suarez..)
Last transfer window to be specific we got Kim Kallstrom when we needed help. The reason my self and I believe others don't believe is that 1 summer transfer window bringing in a WC player that is ready to contribute out of the last 20 or so windows. Just is not good odds.
6unner- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
6unner wrote:
Last transfer window to be specific we got Kim Kallstrom when we needed help. The reason my self and I believe others don't believe is that 1 summer transfer window bringing in a WC player that is ready to contribute out of the last 20 or so windows. Just is not good odds.
If you don't want to analyze the context of the window post Özil and the ones before then that's probably why you feel that way. We'll see.
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
sportsczy wrote:Wenger could have gone to Madrid and he refused out of loyalty to Arsenal. Same with PSG. I guarantee you he would have won several trophies with those clubs because they have elite talent and spend like elite clubs.
Arsenal were unable to spend from 2005 until 2012 because of the debt issues surrounding the new stadium. Summer of 2013 is the first time that Arsenal had a decent transfer budget in a long time.
Philosophy AND talent wins you trophies. You can't win consistently without one or the other unless you luck out and get a golden youth generation like Dortmund and Barca had who remain loyal for a long enough period.
What?! Wenger going to PSG or Madrid where they have Sporting Directors, Leonardo and Butragueno [sp] not a snow balls chance in hell, mate. Wenger has it extra rosey at Arsenal. Him taking orders and having to consult Leonardo...haha no chance. £7m p/a without anything to show for it; or even a competitive edge? LOL. He'd be sacked!!!!
Unable to spend from 2005-2012? now you're spouting nonsense, bro. We've been accumulating money since 2008. How do you think it's feasible to amass £120m, if not that Usmanov gave it to us gift wrapped? exactly, we've been hoarding money for several years now. Don't make excuses for Wenger's inability to send effectively.
Now that figure will sit someone close to £170m when you factor Puma, CL and EPL revenues.
We've had a fixed repayment on the emirates since 2006. It can not go up or down no matter what. We also have to set aside something lie £25m for another reason, can't remember exactly what it's called, but I'm sure you'll be able to find out if your refer to swiss ramble.
SUPERCARTTS- Starlet
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
When Leonardo left last summer.... the job was handed to Wenger to become Manager and Director for PSG. He didn't take it.
At Real Madrid, in 2006 i believe, he was offered the Madrid job with the ability to veto player purchases (didn't choose; but could refuse a transfer). He also said no.
And it's common knowledge that Arsenal wasn't allowed to spend until last summer because there was a fixed debt amount that the club needed to get to before its transfer budget was increased... ask all your mates here including RG. Can't believe you don't know that one. How long have you been an Arsenal fan?
At Real Madrid, in 2006 i believe, he was offered the Madrid job with the ability to veto player purchases (didn't choose; but could refuse a transfer). He also said no.
And it's common knowledge that Arsenal wasn't allowed to spend until last summer because there was a fixed debt amount that the club needed to get to before its transfer budget was increased... ask all your mates here including RG. Can't believe you don't know that one. How long have you been an Arsenal fan?
sportsczy- Ballon d'Or Contender
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
Wenger also rejected Bayern, France, Germany and Brazil. You can criticize him for many things but you can't question his loyalty.
urbaNRoots- First of his name
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
I don't think there was a major European team who didn't want Wenger, especially in 2006.
He sacrificed his personal legacy for Arsenal and that's a fact. We could have won some trophies in the past 8 years, of course, but the circumstances we were in were comparatively more difficult than the years preceding and the years ahead now that we have considerable financial muscle.
He sacrificed his personal legacy for Arsenal and that's a fact. We could have won some trophies in the past 8 years, of course, but the circumstances we were in were comparatively more difficult than the years preceding and the years ahead now that we have considerable financial muscle.
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
From a Swiss Ramble piece from last August
I think this is somewhere close to the truth. Arsenal, and Wenger, have performed really admirably (and in a way that most hotshot manager flavor-of-the-months would fail miserably at) and tried to ensure a lot of long-lasting foundational strength at the club. Wenger's legacy at Arsenal is secure in the long term, whatever his doubters think right now. That said, there have been some "strike while the iron is hot" moments where the club under Wenger has screwed up. I still wonder how things might have worked out differently had the Mata transfer been secured ...
There are also instances of circular logic on both sides of the fence re: Wenger's performance in recent years. Anti-Wenger people often assume that the main reason he stays at the club is because he's a megalomaniac, and their main evidence for his megalomania is ... the fact that they don't like him. (And he hasn't won trophies in a while.)
But sometimes I think that Wenger's supporters (and I am one) abstain from criticizing when he does make a mistake or fail to latch onto an opportunity.
All this is to say that, regarding transfers, I think we shouldn't assume anything in terms of how big our targets will be, how massive the expenditure will be. Obviously he can be stubborn about valuation (especially in the post-Dein age) and loves a good bargain. Bargain doesn't mean scraping the bottom of the barrel, either - Cazorla, at the price we got him, was a huge bargain. We also know that Wenger is willing to spend relatively big if he gets the right player in his sights ... the massive fee for Özil shows that, and the fact that Wenger has tried to bid fairly big for Suarez, Draxler, Götze, Mata, and Hazard (I think all of these are documented attempts since 2011) indicates that he's willing to break his transfer record ... though of course, on the other hand, there's no medal for "trying" to sign a player.
This past season has seen signs of definite but only incremental progress. I think it's hard to deny that.
If the right players come in, and if the team can be revitalized after (let's hope) an FA Cup win, and tweaked tactically, I think next year is possibly a good year.
And I'll say it again. I doubt Benzema will be an Arsenal player come this fall ... but if he is, I'd be thrilled. I'm shocked at some of the negative opinions people have about him on Twitter and the like. He's a terrific player. Probably the only fractionally-realistic ST/CF target I would want as much, or more, than him is Cavani.
OK that was long.
This is not a question of whether Arsenal have under-performed or not. Most neutral observers would agree with Gazidis’ assertion that “We have outperformed our spend, in virtually any metric you can look at, consistently for the last 15 years.” You can agree with that opinion, while still being unhappy that the club has not made the best use of its resources.
I think this is somewhere close to the truth. Arsenal, and Wenger, have performed really admirably (and in a way that most hotshot manager flavor-of-the-months would fail miserably at) and tried to ensure a lot of long-lasting foundational strength at the club. Wenger's legacy at Arsenal is secure in the long term, whatever his doubters think right now. That said, there have been some "strike while the iron is hot" moments where the club under Wenger has screwed up. I still wonder how things might have worked out differently had the Mata transfer been secured ...
There are also instances of circular logic on both sides of the fence re: Wenger's performance in recent years. Anti-Wenger people often assume that the main reason he stays at the club is because he's a megalomaniac, and their main evidence for his megalomania is ... the fact that they don't like him. (And he hasn't won trophies in a while.)
But sometimes I think that Wenger's supporters (and I am one) abstain from criticizing when he does make a mistake or fail to latch onto an opportunity.
All this is to say that, regarding transfers, I think we shouldn't assume anything in terms of how big our targets will be, how massive the expenditure will be. Obviously he can be stubborn about valuation (especially in the post-Dein age) and loves a good bargain. Bargain doesn't mean scraping the bottom of the barrel, either - Cazorla, at the price we got him, was a huge bargain. We also know that Wenger is willing to spend relatively big if he gets the right player in his sights ... the massive fee for Özil shows that, and the fact that Wenger has tried to bid fairly big for Suarez, Draxler, Götze, Mata, and Hazard (I think all of these are documented attempts since 2011) indicates that he's willing to break his transfer record ... though of course, on the other hand, there's no medal for "trying" to sign a player.
This past season has seen signs of definite but only incremental progress. I think it's hard to deny that.
If the right players come in, and if the team can be revitalized after (let's hope) an FA Cup win, and tweaked tactically, I think next year is possibly a good year.
And I'll say it again. I doubt Benzema will be an Arsenal player come this fall ... but if he is, I'd be thrilled. I'm shocked at some of the negative opinions people have about him on Twitter and the like. He's a terrific player. Probably the only fractionally-realistic ST/CF target I would want as much, or more, than him is Cavani.
OK that was long.
Chumlum- First Team
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Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread
It's because Benzema is in the eye of the storm in madrid, you cant be average, you are either excellent or u suck. there is no shade of grey in how people look at him, and it doesnt help that he is just 85 in fifa.
point being that Cavani has had a very poor season compared to benzema if anyone has cared to follow both. The same people that mocked him for choking vs chelsea are the same that refuse to praise benzema when he slays barca or score in CL semis. Yet they still rate Cavani as if he is some kind of one of a kind player...
anyway, no CF can play with CR and look amazing.
point being that Cavani has had a very poor season compared to benzema if anyone has cared to follow both. The same people that mocked him for choking vs chelsea are the same that refuse to praise benzema when he slays barca or score in CL semis. Yet they still rate Cavani as if he is some kind of one of a kind player...
anyway, no CF can play with CR and look amazing.
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