Rosell stepped down over Neymargate and death threats; Bartomeu new president until 2016

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Post by sportsczy Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:58 pm

if you guys want to delude yourselves, be my guest...  but the Madrid fee was all in for Bale (somewhere in the 90s).  All 3rd party fees were paid by the Spurs from that amount.  There was nothing else to say.  It didn't include Bale's wages either.  The 86,2 million is the total consideration paid by Barca to Neymar, Santos and other various related parties to secure the transfer of Neymar to Barca... that's the bottom line.  That's what Barca, the socios and everyone cares about.  What hair-brained scheme Barca & Neymar devised to split the cash outflow is not relevant... the question is:  How much consideration did Barca have to pay to secure the transfer of Neymar?  The answer is 86,2 million according to this document.

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Post by harhar11 Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:21 pm

How do you know that it's included? I mean, Real Madrid has not revealed the documents. And I belive that you normally don't include that into the transfer fee, so I very much doubt that it's included.

Before all of this, before last night, we knew just as much about Neymar's contract as we did knew about Bale's contract. It was exactly the same. The only difference between Neymars and Bale, is that we had a socio who had the balls/hate to denounce the president, Real Madrid does not have that. That's it. Everything else is exactly the same. Apart from the fact that the Madrid media was from the start including salary, agent fee and what not into the price to make the number higer, while the Barca media did not do with Bale's price. Which explains why some report €57m, while then you have another who reports over €100m and why the difference was so big, while Bale's was only a €10m difference.

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Post by danyjr Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:16 am

The deal was dodgy from the beginning and will remain a stain on Barcelona's history but a certain group including Neymar's salary and priority to sign a few Santos players in this alleged €86 million is really a sign of butt-heart from the exact people who paid more for a player who earns 'Flop of the Match' award consistently.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:22 am

harhar11 wrote:False! The club has done no such thing. Infact, in the press conference Bartomeu said like a million times that the transfer cost for Neymar was €57,1m. The €86,2m included alot of things that you normally don't include as a part of the transfer cost, like agent fee and bonus on signing. The only reason they mentioned the €86,2m was to compare it to the article from El Mundo.

Saying that Neymar cost €86,2m is like saying that Bale cost €265m. The only difference between thesse two prices is that MD counted with the salary, while the Barca board did not..

Free_cat can probably give you a better explanation that I can, but belive me when I say that the board didn't say that the transfer cost was €86,2m
The 86.2m does not include salary, which would add an additional 44m.

The Rosell board can spin it however they want, but the fact of the matter is that the club spent 86.2m to get Neymar into our club. I don't think there's anything wrong with that other than denying it from the first place (although their hands were tied, so perhaps the mistake was agreeing to a nondisclosure agreement).
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Post by CBarca Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:03 am

Hmm. Hefty price.

Think he'll prove worth it over the years. He's already been brilliant, and he's so young yet.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:43 am

Hi, and apologies, but could I ask someone to just CONCISELY tell me why exactly he left and whats the situation and future plan looking like? Constant updates and bunch of posts to read has made me even more confused now looool.... thx...
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Post by neuro11 Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:15 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
harhar11 wrote:False! The club has done no such thing. Infact, in the press conference Bartomeu said like a million times that the transfer cost for Neymar was €57,1m. The €86,2m included alot of things that you normally don't include as a part of the transfer cost, like agent fee and bonus on signing. The only reason they mentioned the €86,2m was to compare it to the article from El Mundo.

Saying that Neymar cost €86,2m is like saying that Bale cost €265m. The only difference between thesse two prices is that MD counted with the salary, while the Barca board did not..

Free_cat can probably give you a better explanation that I can, but belive me when I say that the board didn't say that the transfer cost was €86,2m
The 86.2m does not include salary, which would add an additional 44m.

The Rosell board can spin it however they want, but the fact of the matter is that the club spent 86.2m to get Neymar into our club. I don't think there's anything wrong with that other than denying it from the first place (although their hands were tied, so perhaps the mistake was agreeing to a nondisclosure agreement).

I completely understand this math and it makes clear sense to me (i mean that we payed around 86.2) what i don understand is why still they are claiming its 57.1m paid. EMD headlines the following with the picture of deal :

TRANSPARENCY
Bartomeu, in his first press conference as president: “The player cost 57.1 million. We did not lie.”


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Post by Jonathan28 Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:04 am

neuro11 wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
harhar11 wrote:False! The club has done no such thing. Infact, in the press conference Bartomeu said like a million times that the transfer cost for Neymar was €57,1m. The €86,2m included alot of things that you normally don't include as a part of the transfer cost, like agent fee and bonus on signing. The only reason they mentioned the €86,2m was to compare it to the article from El Mundo.

Saying that Neymar cost €86,2m is like saying that Bale cost €265m. The only difference between thesse two prices is that MD counted with the salary, while the Barca board did not..

Free_cat can probably give you a better explanation that I can, but belive me when I say that the board didn't say that the transfer cost was €86,2m
The 86.2m does not include salary, which would add an additional 44m.

The Rosell board can spin it however they want, but the fact of the matter is that the club spent 86.2m to get Neymar into our club. I don't think there's anything wrong with that other than denying it from the first place (although their hands were tied, so perhaps the mistake was agreeing to a nondisclosure agreement).

I completely understand this math and it makes clear sense to me (i mean that we payed around 86.2) what i don understand is why still they are claiming its 57.1m paid. EMD headlines the following with the picture of deal :

TRANSPARENCY
Bartomeu, in his first press conference as president: “The player cost 57.1 million. We did not lie.”


The 57.1 figure is the transfer fee, the fee which is reported to FIFA and the press, the 86.2 figure is the operating cost, which includes the agent fee, signing bonus etc, stuff which is never included in the reported in the transfer fee. Using a recent example, Mata, his transfer fee was 37m, the figure reported to the press and FIFA, but this does not include the agents fee, his signing bonus etc, if it did it would be much higher.

Neymar is the only player who has ever had the operating cost of his transfer publicly revealed and some people are trying to play it off as the actual transfer fee when its not, don't be fooled by them.
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Post by Donuts Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:14 am

Jonathan28 wrote:
neuro11 wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The 86.2m does not include salary, which would add an additional 44m.

The Rosell board can spin it however they want, but the fact of the matter is that the club spent 86.2m to get Neymar into our club. I don't think there's anything wrong with that other than denying it from the first place (although their hands were tied, so perhaps the mistake was agreeing to a nondisclosure agreement).

I completely understand this math and it makes clear sense to me (i mean that we payed around 86.2) what i don understand is why still they are claiming its 57.1m paid. EMD headlines the following with the picture of deal :

TRANSPARENCY
Bartomeu, in his first press conference as president: “The player cost 57.1 million. We did not lie.”


The 57.1 figure is the transfer fee, the fee which is reported to FIFA and the press, the 86.2 figure is the operating cost, which includes the agent fee, signing bonus etc, stuff which is never included in the reported in the transfer fee. Using a recent example, Mata, his transfer fee was 37m, the figure reported to the press and FIFA, but this does not include the agents fee, his signing bonus etc, if it did it would be much higher.

Neymar is the only player who has ever had the operating cost of his transfer publicly revealed and some people are trying to play it off as the actual transfer fee when its not, don't be fooled by them.
I keep hearing this and the exact opposite..
confusing matter nonetheless
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Post by neuro11 Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:30 am

Donuts wrote:
Jonathan28 wrote:
neuro11 wrote:

I completely understand this math and it makes clear sense to me (i mean that we payed around 86.2) what i don understand is why still they are claiming its 57.1m paid. EMD headlines the following with the picture of deal :

TRANSPARENCY
Bartomeu, in his first press conference as president: “The player cost 57.1 million. We did not lie.”


The 57.1 figure is the transfer fee, the fee which is reported to FIFA and the press, the 86.2 figure is the operating cost, which includes the agent fee, signing bonus etc, stuff which is never included in the reported in the transfer fee. Using a recent example, Mata, his transfer fee was 37m, the figure reported to the press and FIFA, but this does not include the agents fee, his signing bonus etc, if it did it would be much higher.

Neymar is the only player who has ever had the operating cost of his transfer publicly revealed and some people are trying to play it off as the actual transfer fee when its not, don't be fooled by them.
I keep hearing this and the exact opposite..
confusing matter nonetheless

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:49 pm

Operating cost?  Dude, what has the got to do with anything lol.  When you acquire an asset or invest in a 3rd party, the credit is to "Cash" if you pay up front or a liability account if you create an obligation to pay in the future.  The debit is an asset if it's something you are allowed to amortize over a period of time according to the accounting standards in effect or an expense if you a) cannot amortize or b) want to take the entire expense hit immediately as opposed to over time.

This has NOTHING to do with disclosing the consideration given for the acquisition of an asset, which is simply the cash spent at the time for the acquisition and what that cash was paid for.  That's what people asked and wanted to know... which was 86,2 million.  How that 86,2 is categorized for compliance purposes on the financials is a completely separate issue.

When you come out and say "we paid 55 million for Neymar total.", you're trying to deceive people.  You should say "we paid a total of 86,2 million for Neymar, 55 million of which went to Santos and the 3rd party owner.  The rest was paid to various other related parties as part of the transaction."  Then, you're being totally transparent and there's no deception.
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Post by neuro11 Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:08 pm

sportsczy wrote:Operating cost?  Dude, what has the got to do with anything lol.  When you acquire an asset or invest in a 3rd party, the credit is to "Cash" if you pay up front or a liability account if you create an obligation to pay in the future.  The debit is an asset if it's something you are allowed to amortize over a period of time according to the accounting standards in effect or an expense if you a) cannot amortize or b) want to take the entire expense hit immediately as opposed to over time.

This has NOTHING to do with disclosing the consideration given for the acquisition of an asset, which is simply the cash spent at the time for the acquisition and what that cash was paid for.  That's what people asked and wanted to know... which was 86,2 million.  How that 86,2 is categorized for compliance purposes on the financials is a completely separate issue.

When you come out and say "we paid 55 million for Neymar total.", you're trying to deceive people.  You should say "we paid a total of 86,2 million for Neymar, 55 million of which went to Santos and the 3rd party owner.  The rest was paid to various other related parties as part of the transaction."  Then, you're being totally transparent and there's no deception.
stop repeating same story you already have written up there.

the deal never comes to public normally and so many theory is coming off from different people. i am interested to hear the reactions of international media after revealing the detail, about what they think. whether its fair to them or not, or what is actually the price paid according to them. And what happens to Rosell's case. In fact the case itself will clarify many issues..

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Post by sportsczy Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:27 pm

He's throwing the term "operating cost" out there which has nothing to with any of this lol. That needed to get clarified. Operating costs are costs you incur that are related to your operating revenue. That's the thing with an expense: the matching principle needs to apply.

The case will get settled outside of court. That's why Rosell stepped down... he didn't want this dragged further and expose him + Barca to additional scrutiny. Will Rosell's resignation be enough or will something else need to happen, such as elections this summer? That's the question. The socio who brought the lawsuit holds the cards right now obviously.

As far as the international media goes, it's being reported as 86,2 million in France (l'Equipe). Die Welt in Germany says 86,2 million as well.
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Post by harhar11 Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:27 pm

Donuts wrote:I keep hearing this and the exact opposite..
confusing matter nonetheless

What Jonathan said is the truth..

This is what Barca released, and look at it.

Rosell stepped down over Neymargate and death threats; Bartomeu new president until 2016 - Page 4 BexAodEIUAAEnVC

Notice how the €86,2m is under total operació, which is obviously the catalan word for total operation. Ergo, the €86,2m is NOT, and I repeat, IT'S NOT just the transfer cost. It's everything bar the salary.

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Post by harhar11 Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:40 pm

sportsczy wrote:Operating cost?  Dude, what has the got to do with anything lol.  When you acquire an asset or invest in a 3rd party, the credit is to "Cash" if you pay up front or a liability account if you create an obligation to pay in the future.  The debit is an asset if it's something you are allowed to amortize over a period of time according to the accounting standards in effect or an expense if you a) cannot amortize or b) want to take the entire expense hit immediately as opposed to over time.

This has NOTHING to do with disclosing the consideration given for the acquisition of an asset, which is simply the cash spent at the time for the acquisition and what that cash was paid for.  That's what people asked and wanted to know... which was 86,2 million.  How that 86,2 is categorized for compliance purposes on the financials is a completely separate issue.

When you come out and say "we paid 55 million for Neymar total.", you're trying to deceive people.  You should say "we paid a total of 86,2 million for Neymar, 55 million of which went to Santos and the 3rd party owner.  The rest was paid to various other related parties as part of the transaction."  Then, you're being totally transparent and there's no deception.

Bro, Barca said that the transfer cost was a total of €57,1m. They never said that the total operation cost only €57,1m.

And also, care to explain to me why only Barca have to say that? I mean, when a club says that a player cost a certain amount of money, they are never including agent fee and signing on bonus. Like for example with Lewandowski to Bayern. I belive that everyone is saying that he went for free to bayern, but he recieved a €10m for signing he contract. So according to you, Bayern should not say that he went for free, am I correct?

Or Mata for example, I am pretty certain that when they say that he cost £37m, they are not including his signing-on fee or agent fee..

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Post by neuro11 Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:10 am

It seems Jordi Cases has withdrawn the case. I wonder whether this means an end to the issue, i mean investigation will be stopped just because the complaint has been withdrawn.

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Post by Jonathan28 Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:11 pm

Yes, unless the judge finds reason not to the case will be withdrawn and all this nonsense will come to an end, at least in Spain, I'm not sure about Brazil.
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Post by windkick Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:08 pm

Free_Cat and anybody else in Spain; how is all this being perceived by the people over there?
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Post by jugster Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:43 pm

windkick wrote:Free_Cat and anybody else in Spain; how is all this being perceived by the people over there?

A friend in Catalunya was pretty happy that Rosell was gone. I imagine that there are pro & anti Rosellistas

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:32 am

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/27/barcelona-neymar-sandro-rosell?CMP=twt_gu

Good article on the whole Rosell saga
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Post by windkick Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:06 am

Great article, thanks

The dumbest thing in all this, is not that Neymar might of actually been the most expensive player of all time (and maybe highest paid if the huge fee that went to his father is actually indeed a massive bonus for Neymar, and as the article stated, they just didnt want to rustle Messi's jimmies by saying publicly they were paying Neymar more).
The dumbest thing is that Neymar would of cost us ZERO dollars if we waited until this summer. All we had to was secure some sort of pre-contract with Neymar and his father, and apparently Rossell had great advances with them because of his Brazil connections. Instead, he blew our entire load on one player who was on his last year of his contract and he completely ignored all the other areas that needed work (maybe another CM and a CB or two, maybe even some full backs). And to top it off he doesn't try harder to keep Thiago. Seriously, good riddens. He cared about his legacy and I'm glad it's tarnished for ever.
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Post by Donuts Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:13 am

if we waited until his contract was up Madrid would of gotten him for sure.
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Post by halamadrid2 Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57 am

Donuts wrote:if we waited until his contract was up Madrid would of gotten him for sure.

That was not possible because Rossell had already secured Neymar by making him sign a pre contract. So if Neymar had gone to Madrid both Neymar and Real would have needed to pay Barca compensation and Barca would have needed to pay Neymar if they hadn't gotten him and instead went after someone else. We had something similar with Ronaldo
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Post by futbol Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:03 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
Donuts wrote:if we waited until his contract was up Madrid would of gotten him for sure.

That was not possible because Rossell had already secured Neymar by making him sign a pre contract. So if Neymar had gone to Madrid both Neymar and Real would have needed to pay Barca compensation and Barca would have needed to pay Neymar if they hadn't gotten him and instead went after someone else. We had something similar with Ronaldo

Perez was willing to pay the € 40M penalty to Barca. That's the whole crux.

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Post by halamadrid2 Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:18 am

futbol wrote:
Perez was willing to pay the € 40M penalty to Barca. That's the whole crux.

That's if he was able to convince him to break an already existing contract with Barcelona. Not to mention everything else Neymar would have had to pay. Personally I think it would've been unrealistic for Perez to get him. part of the reason people do pre contracts is that it acts as a guarantee they wil sign for you and not someone else. Also even if Perez wanted to pay the 40ME to Barca Neymar is still bound in a contract which can not be terminated unless there is a stated amount of money you have to pay to terminate it I think.


The 40ME Perez supposedly wanted to pay is probably the amount Barca paid him so basically he is trying to pay back the money they paid out
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Post by harhar11 Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:39 pm

From what I have read, Perez supposedly wanted to pay the €40m to Barca and on top of that, another €60m to Neymar's dad..

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