I really, really, really, REALLY Wish Vieira Would STFU

Patrick Vieira planted seeds of doubt beneath Arsenal's title bid and warned they could be undermined by a lack of leaders on the pitch.

The Gunners have not won a trophy since Vieira buried the decisive spot-kick in their FA Cup final triumph against Manchester United in 2005.

Now manager of Manchester City's elite development squad, Vieira's barb was deliciously timed ahead of Arsenal's title six-pointer at the Etihad on Saturday.

Vieira said: "When you look at Arsenal, they play fantastic football. But sometimes you need to win games playing badly, and I don't think Arsenal are capable of that at the moment.

"Maybe there is a lack of leadership - they don't have a Tony Adams, Martin Keown or Sol Campbell. These are players who can be leaders on or off the field."

Vieira felt he was pushed out of the door by the Gunners eight years ago, adding: "I had no idea that Cup final would be my last game - I wasn't thinking about leaving at all.

"The club didn't really fight to keep me or ask me to stay. I was really close to leaving for Real Madrid the year before, the deal was done between the two clubs, but I wanted to finish my career at Arsenal."
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bitter, old dinosaur living in the past, still thinks a team needs 11 Presidential bodyguards for it to be successful

He's not wrong in this case...?

Any team needs somebody to step up when things are going bad. Especially when your most "influential" player sits on the bench in captain Vermaelen.

Very hard to see a leader in this Arsenal squad right now. Maybe Flamini? But no, he's not really captain material. We'll soon find out who'll step up when Arsenal are challenged. Arsenal's biggest test this season is post January, mentally. Let's hope for the Arsenal fans on here that they don't bottle it. It's their league to lose right now.

I get what he's saying, I kind of agree with it too. When I look at that team, there's nobody that comes off like they can motivate the rest of the lads. They don't have that Keane, Vidic or an Evra type capable of inspiring and spurring the team on when need be.

He is completely on the money with the part about winning when playing badly, the team  doesn't have that player that is able to win you three points by himself by nicking a wonder goal against the run of play. I just don't see it. Maybe Ozil, but he's still an unknown quantity in the PL, been hot (very hot at times) and cold so far in games.

Arsenal are running on a confidence high at the moment, that's the type of footballing environment players like Ramsey flourish in, you only need to look at the first half of the Everton game to see that Viera is spot on, Arsenal were getting dominated and stifled, and as a result Ramsey put in his worst performance of the year. Ozil was cack too. Turned around once Wenger got them to HT and presumably gave them the kick up the arse the team needed.

Viera

Ironically this comes from a City employer, a club which doesn't seem to know how to win ugly (unless they're completely dominating), a club which doesn't seem to know how to win without their only "leader" Kompany.

urbaNRoots wrote:Ironically this comes from a City employer, a club which doesn't seem to know how to win ugly (unless they're completely dominating), a club which doesn't seem to know how to win without their only "leader" Kompany.

It might be ironic, but he's not wrong.

But to be fair, City have shown they can do it without Kompany. Aguero has stepped up. When Aguero doesn't play to his high standards, Toure steps up. They have the experience, and "big" players that can lift their team at any given moment. So City do have that leadership, maybe not in defence but they do have some leaders in their team, Arsenal do not.

Yes they've showed leadership against Bayern, Cardiff, Southampton, etc...

No, that's a team adjusting to a new coach/managerial style.

The only thing that puts Arsenal on top of everyone else in England right now is managerial stability.

Arsenal has already have a system step up, so the likes of City, United, Spurs, Chelsea etc are playing catch up right now. They still lack leaders, there's a difference.

The only thing that puts Arsenal on top RIGHT NOW is getting better results than evreryone else, all the other crap is irrelevant.

And the only reason WHY you're getting better results is because you already have a system set up.

It's not hard to compute.

City have won something recently... Arsenal haven't. Until Arsenal step up and win something, they don't have a leg to stand on in these debates tbh.

Once Arsenal wins a trophy, this will all go away.

Harsh reality of competitive sports.

Recent title winning sides;

City: Yaya, Zabaleta, Kompany
United: Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Rio
Chelsea: Terry, Lampard, Cech

The lack of leadership in the Arsenal side will be one of the factors why they will end up bottling that lead they have at the top during the course of the season when the inevitable slump hits.

I'll bump this as the official Patrick Viera appreciation thread come mid May 2014.

Red Alert wrote:And the only reason WHY you're getting better results is because you already have a system set up.

It's not hard to compute.

I agree with this.

Red Alert wrote:And the only reason WHY you're getting better results is because you already have a system set up.

It's not hard to compute.

No we're getting better results because we've been better at football so far, no need to overanalyze everything

You don't have to play "better" football to get the result. You should know this being an Arsenal fan... you've been playing arguably the best football in England for the last decade. What exactly do you guys have to show for it? It's a harsh sport at the end of the day.

urbaNRoots wrote:

Red Alert wrote:And the only reason WHY you're getting better results is because you already have a system set up.

It's not hard to compute.

No we're getting better results because we've been better at football so far, no need to overanalyze everything

It's the easiest explanation actually! Every top 6 club bar liverpool has a new manager! It's pretty obvious!

Firenze wrote:Recent title winning sides;

City: Yaya, Zabaleta, Kompany
United: Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Rio
Chelsea: Terry, Lampard, Cech

The lack of leadership in the Arsenal side will be one of the factors why they will end up bottling that lead they have at the top during the course of the season when the inevitable slump hits.

I'll bump this as the official Patrick Viera appreciation thread come mid May 2014.

I've always felt Rooney has been the most underrated "leader" in the world. He's definitely a leader in your squad.

Red Alert wrote:You don't have to play "better" football to get the result. You should know this being an Arsenal fan... you've been playing arguably the best football in England for the last decade. What exactly do you guys have to show for it? It's a harsh sport at the end of the day.

I said better AT (PLAYING) FOOTBALL, not beautiful football. We've been better at it so far this season, it could change really quickly if we start playing poorly again. All the other stuff is rrelevant.

jibers wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:

Red Alert wrote:And the only reason WHY you're getting better results is because you already have a system set up.

It's not hard to compute.

No we're getting better results because we've been better at football so far, no need to overanalyze everything

It's the easiest explanation actually! Every top 6 club bar liverpool has a new manager! It's pretty obvious!

Rodgers was hired as Liverpool's manager last season. He's already the 4th or 5th (with AVB, hired at a similar time) longest standing manager in the league. The PL has definitely approached a new era. It will be interested to see who the next "big" force is after Wenger retires.

I want to say Chelsea with all their talent, but Mourinho won't stay at the club for the long term.

urbaNRoots wrote:

Red Alert wrote:You don't have to play "better" football to get the result. You should know this being an Arsenal fan... you've been playing arguably the best football in England for the last decade. What exactly do you guys have to show for it? It's a harsh sport at the end of the day.

I said better AT (PLAYING) FOOTBALL, not beautiful football. We've been better at it so far this season, it could change really quickly if we start playing poorly again.

And you're better "at playing football" because your players know what to expect from your manager and already have an idea how on how your manager sets up.

Again, City and co are still adjusting to a new system in place. Players do not automatically pick up systems straight away.

So you still came to conclusion that we're on top because we've been better than everyone else (which comes from having the stability) which is what I've been saying.

Ok... let's be clear. Has Arsenal always played beautiful footy? Sure. Has the club been in the elite of the EPL? Not in a long time as in the last 5 years. You had Man U who was the cream of the crop. Then you had Chelsea who was later joined by Man City. Arsenal is a candidate to regain elite status right now in the EPL... but until the club wins the EPL, it won't happen.

So can people talk down to Arsenal justifiably? Absolutely. Is it classy to do so? No. But then again, this is football. If you want sportsmanship and mutual respect... watch rugby.

Yes, okay whatever.

Do you agree with Vieira or not?

No I don't agree. He has his own opinion and I respect but if he actually watched Arsenal this year (since the Bayern match) instead of listening to the clueless media he would know that we've won so many games where we were not so good, probably even the 2nd best team, but we still won. He's just assuming we are where we were 3-4 years ago, which is not true at all.

Well I guess we found out who's right at the end of the season.

I agree with Vieira, as much as it pains me to say.  There is no player on this team that's "been there" as a leader on a trophy winning side.  Ozil wasn't a leader at Madrid and Giroud is not the leader type.

But they can emerge.  I think Per, Kos and Arteta are the main guys to act as leaders. Wilshere is too dumb for it lol and Ramsey is a kid.

Arsenal is the best team in EPL this year imo.  But not very deep.  Health will be the key more than anything else...