- Mr. Antonio Conte | Former Coach 2011-2014 -

Davide Moscardelli wrote:No, what Conte is doing is clearly wrong. Stop bringing up two titles and other bs thats the past. Llorente needs to play to gain confidence and as we have seen Conte is terrible in player morale. Stop saying "He won us two titles". He failed in the CL last year with rotation and it seems like he could do the same again. Conte has multiple flaws and some people need to get past the nostalgia of the last two years and look ahead.

Than stop paying respect to ADP,Boniperti,Trez,Camo its THE PAST !

And everyone acknowledges on how good Conte is.But there are some things which could be fixed such that these kind of problems dont arise again in the future.

When Marotta bought Bendtner,you again stopped people from criticizing him when in reality it was bad planning all along and the weak department should have been rectified earlier.(Just an example).

Whats the purpose of having a 'discussion' anyway when everybody here is going to agree on everything what Juventus do and just be 'Yes' men ?In life,there is always room for improvement no matter how well you're doing.

(Nothing against you Devi btw but i think in this case Conte does warrant some criticism here).

It's not paying respect, Devi. All the players you mentioned no longer play for Juve. Conte is still with us so we must always be critical of him. If Conte wasn't the manager, then you can say how great he was but that isn't the case. Respecting a legend who has retired is one thing but respecting a coach who is still coaching you without looking at his mistakes is blind ignorance.

Davide Moscardelli wrote:It's not paying respect, Devi. All the players you mentioned no longer play for Juve. Conte is still with us so we must always be critical of him. If Conte wasn't the manager, then you can say how great he was but that isn't the case. Respecting a legend who has retired is one thing but respecting a coach who is still coaching you without looking at his mistakes is blind ignorance.

I won't comment anymore

I agree with people


Your point about old legends is wrong bro

Because there's no need to criticise somebody who's not currently a part of the club. There's nothing wrong for them to do

I love Conte, he's a great coach but his rotation and ability to bring new players into the team is very poor. And you can only improve so much with the same squad of players.

There is no way in hell we should keep using the same XI despite having all that depth. And like I said, there's no point in Conte publicly stating he wants to keep Gio and Quags when he won't even play them over a injured Vucinic

And that's another thing. Vucinic is very good but he's not exactly leagues ahead of Quag/Gio. It's not like we're forcing an injured Messi on to the pitch because we don't want to use a scrub.

Davide Moscardelli wrote:No, what Conte is doing is clearly wrong. Stop bringing up two titles and other bs thats the past. Llorente needs to play to gain confidence and as we have seen Conte is terrible in player morale. Stop saying "He won us two titles". He failed in the CL last year with rotation and it seems like he could do the same again. Conte has multiple flaws and some people need to get past the nostalgia of the last two years and look ahead.

THIS

I can't believe people sometimes, the fact that Conte has won us trophies doesn't take the fact away that he is a player management jacka**.


Callejon is Spanish and is doing fine at Napoli [for those who'll jump at the Spanish players don't well in Serie A bullsh*t]

Higuain and Callejon are doing great at Napoli [for those who'll lick Conte's balls about La Liga players failing in Serie A]

Gomez is doing great at Fiorentina [for those who will lick Conte's balls about foreigners need time to adjust]

why because they were all given a FKN chance

yes llorente had a bad preseason but so did 95% of our players including Pirlo and Vidal

why was he given a chance in preseason and wasn't adjusting then? the dude needs to play simple and short....

if we remember well Conte tried to pull that sh*t on Vidal too and the only reason he adjusted Vidal was Vidal was an instant sub who scored a goal and was clearly better than Marchisio and there was no reason to hide it so he "adjusted" his formation

if llorente doesn't get the opportunity, how will he learn about Serie A's so called compact defenses [according to Monsieur Conte] that Higuain, Callejon and Gomez are destroying because they've been given a chance....

look at that Tevez cross yesterday to Vidal who headed it straight and honestly tell me Llorente would have missed it.........

greater coaches have been criticized and sacked in the past, Scolari, Mourinho, Trapattoni, Ancelotti even Lippi

Conte has nothing on these guys ad he is NOT beyond criticism.... he is a poor player manager and his ego will hurt us....

DeviAngel wrote:

Davide Moscardelli wrote:It's not paying respect, Devi. All the players you mentioned no longer play for Juve. Conte is still with us so we must always be critical of him. If Conte wasn't the manager, then you can say how great he was but that isn't the case. Respecting a legend who has retired is one thing but respecting a coach who is still coaching you without looking at his mistakes is blind ignorance.

I won't comment anymore

Let's just agree to disagree then. No harm in that.

Conte knows the players better than ur moms lol

Nobody here including me knows what the heck is going on at Vinovo so how can you accurately comment and say as a matter of fact that Conte is doing a bad job at rotation and needs to absolutely play Llorente because he will do better than an injured Vucinic?

For all we know Llorente is sucking big time in practice, has no chemistry with Tevez, who is currently our #1 striker, and so Conte does not want to put him out there for fear he will suck balls and lose his confidence.

Please stop making Llorente out to be our saviour at the striker position. Don't compare him to Higuain and Gomez please. Those guys are miles ahead of Llorente in terms of talent. Napoli paid $40m for Higuain who is a starter for his national team, Fiorentina paid $20 million for Gomez who scored a million goals in Bundesliga and has also started for Germany, and you're comparing them to Llorente who was bought on a freebie by Marotta and doesn't even play regularly for his national team? Seriously? When was the last time Llorente actually scored a goal for Spain, 2010??

So Callejon is having a few good games for Napoli and all of a sudden Spanish players can conquer Serie A? Name the last Spanish striker before Callejon to actually succeed in Serie A??

I am not saying Conte is above criticism and of course he is not perfect, he is human like all of us, but the problem I have is people saying that Conte should absolutely be playing Llorente but give no concrete reasons as to why he should play other than to give him a chance. It doesn't work that way. With Conte, playing time is earned not given, we should all know this by now. That's how Conte is. It is pretty obvious to me that Llorente is probably sucking balls in practice and is having a hard time adjusting to Conte's tactics, so that is the most logical reason as to why he is not currently playing. Also, he has played very little over the last year and a half and so his conditioning is probably not as good as it should be. And finally there is a big adjustment to go from La Liga to Serie A. Yes I understand that Higuain and Callejon have made the adjustment, but like I said Higuain is a much better striker than Llorente and he is Argentinean, just like Tevez, and we all know that Argentinean strikers have done fairly well playing in Serie A and so their adjustment to Italian football is much easier to make than for a Spanish player.

I said this before and I'll say it again, Fernando Llorente will become Eljero Elia 2.0. I can just feel it. We will end up selling him for a profit and then our search will begin again next summer for a world class striker. Unless of course one of our kids like Gabbiadini takes the next step.

I also wanna point out that it's Marotta and Agnelli's fault we didn't buy one of Higuain, Jovetic or Gomez. Conte is not to blame.  Conte asked for a top striker throughout the whole summer.  

Marotta spent a grand total of $9m to get two strikers, Llorente and Tevez.  At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.  Tevez looks like a bargain at $9m (probably around $15m after bonuses), and as for Llorente, well he was free so we can't complain if he is not our saviour.

If we wanted a sure thing than we should have splashed out the cash for Higuain or Jovetic.  Our supposed financial constraints didn't allow us to do this, so we got stuck looking for bargains and now we have what we have.  Plain and simple...

if Llorente sucks balls at training, Conte needs to man up and tell us

none us is at Vinovo so we don't know what happens at the training grounds....

we judge a player by what we see.... why do I have a doubt that its not a problem about llorente not doing well at training but its only Conte not wanting to change his team for the sake of it......

Conte will risk playing the same team for 95% of the season bar any injuries and only plays his second team in Coppa games only, it is a FACT:

same way he doesn't know how to adjust tactics to fit the opposition is why we were raped by Bayern and stopped by Inter yesterday because Conte's predictability is 100% assured because he is too egoistic and that is his downfall

mark my words and watch the same damn team we play vs Copenhagen [same team vs Inter] play vs Hellas over the weekend....

he is bad at rotation and adjusting players just admit it and stop putting the fault on Llorente's head....

yes llorente is not better than Tevez, Higuain and Gomez and Vucinic has a cord with Tevez in our current set up....

but for our subs bench, you seriously cannot tell me llorente is beyond a sub role around 60th-70th min cameo roles till fully fit to start....

he is seriously better than Quagliarella and Giovinco, and when fully ready yards better than Vucinic....

Yeah that's better. Conte immune to criticism but its all Marotta's fault. Conte said in public Juventus cannot compete financially but it's Marotta's fault for not signing Higuain and Jovetic. Now it makes sense, it's easier to blame the person you don't see than the one you do.

Now tell me, we haven't seen Llorente train at Vinovo, that's true. But I would bet you haven't seen Juventus' financials either to the degree that Marotta and those who manage and spend the money have. Ask yourself: why would Marotta not sign the best player he could, if he could? Do you think he chose Matri over Benzema or Vucinic over Aguero? Or do you think these decisions make themselves? Next time you go into the grocery store get 100 dollars worth of items and when it's time to pay break out a 50 and see what happens. Marotta shops within his budget and Conte understands that, it's a shame it's difficult for fans to comprehend this notion 3 years later.

But alas, I blame FIFA and the way it's corrupted our minds. We need Coentrao and Nani to make our non-existent 4-3-3 work! Unbelievable stuff.

#FIFAout

elmystique wrote:if Llorente sucks  balls at training, Conte needs to man up and tell us

n

Who the f* are we so Conte will explain himself to us? To tell us now at the beginning of the season and create trouble in the locker room or bed atmosphere ? .....

juve_gigi wrote:I also wanna point out that it's Marotta and Agnelli's fault we didn't buy one of Higuain, Jovetic or Gomez. Conte is not to blame.  Conte asked for a top striker throughout the whole summer.  

Marotta spent a grand total of $9m to get two strikers, Llorente and Tevez.  At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.  Tevez looks like a bargain at $9m (probably around $15m after bonuses), and as for Llorente, well he was free so we can't complain if he is not our saviour.

If we wanted a sure thing than we should have splashed out the cash for Higuain or Jovetic.  Our supposed financial constraints didn't allow us to do this, so we got stuck looking for bargains and now we have what we have.  Plain and simple...

it was a matter of Tevez or Higuain, we couldn't afford both, we had already snapped up Llorente and yes Conte asked for llorente he wanted a CF nd llorente is a CF we got for free, don't forget we bid 20m for him a year or so ago.....

please stop acting like Conte became a fortune teller now and Marotta got llorente because Marotta is obsessed with him...

and what Juve needed was a quality SS because Vucinic and Gio were failures and thats why we got Tevez..... we needed a good CF because Quags and Mehtri are/were failures too its as simple as that....

Luca wrote:Yeah that's better. Conte immune to criticism but its all Marotta's fault. Conte said in public Juventus cannot compete financially but it's Marotta's fault for not signing Higuain and Jovetic. Now it makes sense, it's easier to blame the person you don't see than the one you do.

Now tell me, we haven't seen Llorente train at Vinovo, that's true. But I would bet you haven't seen Juventus' financials either to the degree that Marotta and those who manage and spend the money have. Ask yourself: why would Marotta not sign the best player he could, if he could? Do you think he chose Matri over Benzema or Vucinic over Aguero? Or do you think these decisions make themselves? Next time you go into the grocery store get 100 dollars worth of items and when it's time to pay break out a 50 and see what happens. Marotta shops within his budget and Conte understands that, it's a shame it's difficult for fans to comprehend this notion 3 years later.

But alas, I blame FIFA and the way it's corrupted our minds. We need Coentrao and Nani to make our non-existent 4-3-3 work! Unbelievable stuff.

#FIFAout

We paid $25 million for a flop in Melo, another $25 million for a flop in Diego, another $12 million for a flop in Martinez, $15 million for a flop in Krasic, should I go on? Do you think FIAT has stopped selling cars since these flops were purchased and now we have no money? Juve has been spending hundreds of millions of dollars on players over the last 5 years or so, we spent $80 million alone on just those 4 flops I mentioned. Maybe someone can add up all the money we spent on transfers the last 5 years, I am sure it is well over $300 million. The money is there. It has always been there. If you don't believe this then you aren't paying attention to the money trail. If we had $25 million lying around to buy a flop in Melo then surely that same $25 million plus maybe another $10 million was lying around to buy a Higuain. The problem is not whether or not we have the money, which is plain and obvious through previous purchases that we do, the problem is whether or not Agnelli wants to actually spend it and how Marotta distributes it throughout the team in terms of total player purchases.

The point I am trying to make is that if Marotta gives Conte someone like Elia or Llorente, and Conte can't integrate them into the team and they flop, what's Conte supposed to do? You can't make chicken salad from chicken sh*t.

I understand Marotta is working within a budget and I understand we may not have $40 million in the kitty to buy a Higuain so we are stuck getting a Llorente on a freebie. But you can't blame Conte if the freebie Llorente sucks in practice and cannot play with Tevez, which is the most logical explanation as to why Conte is not playing him right now.

Conte can only play the players he is given. If he is given Matri over Benzema and Vucinic over Aguero then our play on the field will be reflected in those purchases. We shouldn't have an expectation to win the scudetto every year and challenge for the CL title if Conte is given chicken sh*t to make chicken salad.

DeviAngel wrote:

elmystique wrote:if Llorente sucks  balls at training, Conte needs to man up and tell us

n

Who the f* are we so Conte will explain himself to us? To tell us now at the beginning of the season and create trouble in the locker room or bed atmosphere ? .....

from the same analogy, I will say since people are claiming Conte is the one that sees what happens at Vinovo and e don't, I will take everything he has said about llo so far

"Llorente is doing very well at training"

"Lorente is a true professional who will greatly impact our game with a new dimension"

"llorente is doing well at training, but he is not fit yet after not playing much from a year and is coming from the Spanish league where defenses are weaker, but he is doing good at training"

"I will play llorente when he is ready, not to please the media"


i don't think that sounds like someone who is sucking at training, so why can he not be given a chance?

what will you say about llorente if he is sold in Jan/Summer if he is sold after getting only 30 mins of playtime in all those month, a flop because of Conte's faults? I hope not.......

elmystique wrote:and what Juve needed was a quality SS because Vucinic and Gio were failures and thats why we got Tevez..... we needed a good CF because Quags and Mehtri are/were failures too its as simple as that....

Yes I agree Kwame. The money we spent for Vucinic and Gio was what $30 million? Guess what you can buy for $30 million these days? Yeah a Jovetic and some fries...

juve_gigi wrote:

elmystique wrote:and what Juve needed was a quality SS because Vucinic and Gio were failures and thats why we got Tevez..... we needed a good CF because Quags and Mehtri are/were failures too its as simple as that....

Yes I agree Kwame.  The money we spent for Vucinic and Gio was what $30 million?  Guess what you can buy for $30 million these days?  Yeah a Jovetic and some fries...

Fiorentina made t clear to us they won't sell Jovetic to us.... it was clear.....

a 29 yr old Tevez vs Jovetic, I will take Tevez everyday.....

Jovetic is NOT worth 30 million currently or based on Fiore form last year, Juve had other targets in other positions to get and couldn't waste 30m on Jovetic

we are still paying for loans of the stadium.......

Conte asked for Llorente and Tevez, stop acting like he did not....

elmystique wrote:if Llorente sucks  balls at training, Conte needs to man up and tell us

none us is at Vinovo so we don't know what happens at the training grounds....

we judge a player by what we see.... why do I have a doubt that its not a problem about llorente not doing well at training but its only Conte not wanting to change his team for the sake of it......

Conte will risk playing the same team for 95% of the season bar any injuries and only plays his second team in Coppa games only, it is a FACT:

same way he doesn't know how to adjust tactics to fit the opposition is why we were raped by Bayern and stopped by Inter yesterday because Conte's predictability is 100% assured because he is too egoistic and that is his downfall

mark my words and watch the same damn team we play vs Copenhagen [same team vs Inter] play vs Hellas over the weekend....

he is bad at rotation and adjusting players just admit it and stop putting the fault on Llorente's head....

yes llorente is not better than Tevez, Higuain and Gomez and Vucinic has a cord with Tevez in our current set up....

but for our subs bench, you seriously cannot tell me llorente is beyond a sub role around 60th-70th min cameo roles till fully fit to start....

he is seriously better than Quagliarella and Giovinco, and when fully ready yards better than Vucinic....

The game was tied in the 70th minute against Inter so Conte is not going to risk putting in a Llorente who he has no confidence in at the moment. That's why Quags went in, because Quags knows Conte's system and Conte trusts him. And quite frankly Quags looked good yesterday, he wasn't the reason why we couldn't score that second goal.

Let's face it, Quags is the #3 striker right now, so if you're expecting Llorente or Gio to make more than just a cameo appearance in garbage time in any upcoming game you are going to be sadly disappointed...

Guyzzz... lol conte knows his players better than we do. End of argument
Team devi wins

Its not that Juve arent willing to spend money but we are basically spending what we are earning.And tbf our revenue is nowher near as big as other top clubs.
Date back to 2011,there was a 120m cash injection from EXOR which helped us build a good squad in the first place.And apparently we are still repaying that money in installments.
Its easy to sit and say Juventus have a billionaire so money is not an issue but we have to understand that where they are coming from.They are trying to make the club self-sustainable in the long term and be completely independant of owner's money.

Papa just wanted to add the Conte specifically asks for the players he wants. Elia was wanted by Conte to be used in a 4-2-4 formation, to which we never used. The Elia saga is Conte's fault not Marotta.

elmystique wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

elmystique wrote:if Llorente sucks  balls at training, Conte needs to man up and tell us

n

Who the f* are we so Conte will explain himself to us? To tell us now at the beginning of the season and create trouble in the locker room or bed atmosphere ? .....

from the same analogy, I will say since people are claiming Conte is the one that sees what happens at Vinovo and e don't, I will take everything he has said about llo so far

"Llorente is doing very well at training"

"Lorente is a true professional who will greatly impact our game with a new dimension"

"llorente is doing well at training, but he is not fit yet after not playing much from a year and is coming from the Spanish league where defenses are weaker, but he is doing good at training"

"I will play llorente when he is ready, not to please the media"


i don't think that sounds like someone who is sucking at training, so why can he not be given a chance?

what will you say about llorente if he is sold in Jan/Summer if he is sold after getting only 30 mins of playtime in all those month, a flop because of Conte's faults? I hope not.......

What will I say? Nothing wish him the best.. All the players that Conte sold never became players : elia, Krasic, Martinez, Ziegler none of them made a career or have permanent club they can't prove themselfs even in 3rd tier teams lmao so if Llorente leaves than he is nothing more than average player

Also the whole "get what you pay for" thing is complete B.S. We got Pirlo and Pogba for free, Llorente for free when only a year earlier he was worth well over 20 euro. Also you saying he hasn't scored for Spain since 2010? He NEVER plays! I'm not getting into that but if you want to actually know about the situation with Llorente on the national team, ask Arq because he will vouch for me on this.

elmystique wrote:

juve_gigi wrote:

elmystique wrote:and what Juve needed was a quality SS because Vucinic and Gio were failures and thats why we got Tevez..... we needed a good CF because Quags and Mehtri are/were failures too its as simple as that....

Yes I agree Kwame.  The money we spent for Vucinic and Gio was what $30 million?  Guess what you can buy for $30 million these days?  Yeah a Jovetic and some fries...

Fiorentina made t clear to us they won't sell Jovetic to us.... it was clear.....

a 29 yr old Tevez vs Jovetic, I will take Tevez everyday.....

Jovetic is NOT worth 30 million currently or based on Fiore form last year, Juve had other targets in other positions to get and couldn't waste 30m on Jovetic

we are still paying for loans of the stadium.......

Conte asked for Llorente and Tevez, stop acting like he did not....

I agree about Tevez. But Tevez can play as a CF so Jovetic and Tevez could have surely played together like Vucinic and Tevez play right now. As for Jovetic, $30 million these days isn't alot of money for a top striker. Higuain went for $40 million, so it's not incomprehensible that Jovetic was worth $30 million. Time will tell.

I don't recall Conte specifically asking for Llorente, but I could be wrong. But even if he did, Conte saw what we all saw from Llorente when he was playing regularly in La Liga. The fact that he has not played alot in over a year and half tells me he's not quite the same player he was two years ago and needs more time to adjust.