The Group of Death

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Post by Peccadillo Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:06 am

Do we want the Group of Death to be history?

It has been discussed in the past about changing the way the world cup groups are formed based on pots being determined by FIFA world rankings.
I was reading an article in the BBC's features page which was readdressing that very suggestion.

The article identified the potential difference in quality between the “easiest” group of the tournament, and the “hardest”.. With the only objective way of identifying what is the easiest and hardest than average FIFA world ranking..

It found using the current system the hardest group and easiest group would be;
Hardest: Spain, USA, Chile and the Netherlands
Easiest: Colombia, South Korea, Algeria and Croatia
- Using this system the difference between these two groups in terms of the average FIFA ranking is 25.

Whereas using the FIFA ranking system;
Hardest: Spain, Switzerland, Ivory Coast, Australia
Easiest: Chile, Greece, Cameroon and South Korea
- Here, the difference between these two groups in terms of the average FIFA ranking is 11.

So in theory, there’s no doubt you are substantially minimising your chances of creating a Group of Death, or at least swapping a "group of death" with a group of moderately bearable doom..

What downside could there be? It is after all without doubt a more equitable system, thereby increasing the likelihood of the best possible teams in the knockout stages.. which should be what we all want..

I think we all do kind of enjoy the excitement of having a group of death (especially when it aids an exit for the French) it's in our nature as human beings, much like that wry smile you get when you see a plastered bird face-plant in her stilettos, you know you shouldn’t get any level of enjoyment from it.. you just do.

Thoughts?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:12 am

France is the European country with the lowest FIFA ranking, but somehow I doubt they would be most top seeds most preffered European country to face in groups.
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Post by Peccadillo Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:45 pm

It doesn't completely avoid the possibility of a group of death.. but I think it still minimises the chances as I said.. I mean France would rarely fall out of the top two pots, usually ranking higher than 16.. they are at this stage unusually low..
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Post by mr-r34 Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:10 pm

The rehearsal Group Stage draw (in full):

GROUP A - Brazil, Italy, France, Australia.

GROUP B - Uruguay, Nigeria, USA, Croatia.

GROUP C - Argentina, Ghana, Costa Rica, Russia.

GROUP D - Switzerland, Chile, Japan, Greece.

GROUP E - Spain, Ivory Coast, South Korea, England.

GROUP F - Colombia, Cameroon, Honduras, Holland.

GROUP G - Germany, Ecuador, Iran, Portugal.

GROUP H - Belgium, Algeria, Mexico, Bosnia.
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Post by mr-r34 Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:10 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/brazil-world-cup-2014-draw-england-drawn-with-holders-spain-in-official-group-stage-rehearsal-8986228.html

Rehearsal Draw
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Post by MaraVilla Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:16 pm

omg thank fk, i shat my pants when i saw Aussie getting france, brazil and Italy
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Post by McAgger Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:24 pm

Group D, B, and G
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Post by Collblanc Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:26 pm

I'd say B. Spain is struggling and so is Holland, with a very young team. Chili can give them a very hard time with their attacking style.
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Post by Guest Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:05 pm

Chile is going to get out of the group stages, but that group is not fair at all.

Dutch or Spain are going to flop. Probably the dutch.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:11 pm

Yeah the toughest group is B to me.
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Post by Robespierre Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:18 pm

B
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Post by lszanto Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:23 pm

If we get a point in B i'll be very very shocked.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:47 pm

freaking Ghana man... THat was just adding insult to injury. World Cup for us is over before it even started. Ugh. What a crap day.
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:51 pm

^ I fancy US to beat Portugal, but lose to Ghana. I also think Germany will have a shock defeat, but progress regardless

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Post by Eman Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:47 pm

The thing about group D is that at least there is Costa Rica to give everyone a likely 3 points. Group G could throw up any result at any time. Group G is the hardest IMO.

As for the original post, I personally do like the group of death idea because it hypes up the beginning of the tournament, but it does always suck to see mediocre teams get a free pass into the next round while better teams get knocked out early. In reality, a more balanced system would probably result in more drama later in the tournament, although then again, who doesn't like to see a so-called weaker team make it far and actually give it a go? I guess I'm still for the groups of death...
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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:05 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:freaking Ghana man... THat was just adding insult to injury. World Cup for us is over before it even started. Ugh. What a crap day.
u Ghanaian m8t?
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Post by Peccadillo Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:30 am

shame about the England draw.. second hardest group we could have got for me...

I think the fact that Costa Rica is there makes it tougher in a way as every team should take the 3 points against them.. it makes it really come down to two games which we could very easily lose..

I suppose the silverlining is the first knockout stages are favourable should we get through that group..

Cant look past group B as the true group of death on paper though...
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Post by VendettaRed07 Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:53 am

elm_baraja_shaman wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:freaking Ghana man... THat was just adding insult to injury. World Cup for us is over before it even started. Ugh. What a crap day.
u Ghanaian m8t?
American Laughing

Germany and Portugal wasn't bad enough... The team we would have the best chance of beating is of course the same one that's knocked us out the last two world cups.. ugh.. oh well.
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Post by 7amood11 Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:29 am

I think it's D, followed by B. You've got 3 teams with a very good chance of making it through.

G, not so much. Germany and Portugal are just too much for Ghana and USA in my opinion.
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Post by Peccadillo Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:54 am

I don't think so..
Contrast;
Spain > Italy
Netherlands > England (or Uruguay if you want to go by ranks)
Uruguay > Chile
Costa Rica > Australia

Group B is a stronger group. I think a lot of people will be feeling like Italy and Uruguay will get through our group. Not to disrespect Uruguay as they are a strong side.. any group where Uruguay is the favourite to get through cannot be the true group of death.
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Post by neuro11 Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:57 am

Peccadillo wrote:.. any group where Uruguay is the favourite to get through cannot be the true group of death.
i kind of agree with you, but i think it is not correct to say Uruguay is favourite to go through from a group having England and Italy. If you ignore the so called south american soil effect, i dont see Uruguay to be way ahead of England and Italy...

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Post by 1991 Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:19 am

I don't think there are any group of deaths.

Compare England, Italy, Uruguay & Costa Rica to Arsenal, Dortmund, Napoli & Marseille...And people still claim the world cup is still the highest level of football Laughing
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Post by flameas Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:36 am

I think we can already say - RIP England Very Happy Nothing better than seeing Wayne Rooney lose : )
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Post by harhar11 Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Peccadillo wrote:I don't think so..
Contrast;
Spain > Italy
Netherlands > England (or Uruguay if you want to go by ranks)
Uruguay> Chile
Costa Rica > Australia

Group B is a stronger group. I think a lot of people will be feeling like Italy and Uruguay will get through our group. Not to disrespect Uruguay as they are a strong side.. any group where Uruguay is the favourite to get through cannot be the true group of death.
Imo, Chile are better than Uruguay. We even finished ahead of them in the qual and head to head, we won in Chile while they won in Uruguay. So I honestly don't see why some people thinks that Uruguay are better than Chile. Is it because they won the last Copa America?

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Post by donttreadonred Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:49 pm

Imo, Chile are better than Uruguay. We even finished ahead of them in the qual and head to head, we won in Chile while they won in Uruguay. So I honestly don't see why some people thinks that Uruguay are better than Chile. Is it because they won the last Copa America?
It's all to do with the Copa America, the last World Cup, and the individual quality of player on Uruguay's squad.

The feeling is that even though Uruguay botched up the COMEBOL qualifying campaign, they are still capable of pulling it together to present a much stronger effort at a major tournament. To be honest, I actually believe their recent history backs up this feeling. Ever since 2010, they have made a habit of stepping up for major tournaments. They're certainly not a squad that will go out and steamroll all challengers. However, they are capable of punching above their weight, and who knows what will happen if they can manage to get into the knockout stage.

With Italy and England in the group, Uruguay will have a tough task ahead of them. Then again, I think they can beat either of them on any given day, especially considering that the tournament is in South America. My expectation is that Uruguay progresses at the expense of one of Italy or England. They may very well come second, but I think they will progress.
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