The unpopular opinion thread

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Post by Robespierre Mon May 10, 2021 6:32 pm

Freeza wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Suarez did in the World Cup.

On the same level as a last ditch tackle for me. Completely within the rules, and the rules says it warrants a red. Should've been the end of it.


Not unpopolar for me. Totally agree with it.

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Post by Young Kaz Mon May 10, 2021 6:44 pm

I want folks to have this same energy when they complain about Italy being robbed in the 2002 world cup.

Obviously the ref was a professional and knew what he was doing.


Last edited by Young Kaz on Mon May 10, 2021 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 7:40 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Freeza wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Suarez did in the World Cup.

On the same level as a last ditch tackle for me. Completely within the rules, and the rules says it warrants a red. Should've been the end of it.


In that way anything is acceptable to you.

What If he just went and broke Ayew's leg in the second half and got sent off? Tackling is in the game, and the rules warrant a red card.

yup lol

point remains what Suarez did was dirty... it was "unethical" and "unsportman-like"... it was instinctual and it says a lot about his character because of that. He was "cheating" the "fair ethics" of the game, point blank! Now i do understand if some is more lenient with what he did... some could simply frame it as it was a show of how much of a "winner" he is, and what lengths he would go to for it. And also in terms on the "dirty" scale it is not to the same degree as going to break someone's leg intentionally. Still, Kaz, your rebuttal is a good response to how Freeza framed his opinion.
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Post by Young Kaz Mon May 10, 2021 7:52 pm

El Gunner wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Freeza wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Suarez did in the World Cup.

On the same level as a last ditch tackle for me. Completely within the rules, and the rules says it warrants a red. Should've been the end of it.


In that way anything is acceptable to you.

What If he just went and broke Ayew's leg in the second half and got sent off? Tackling is in the game, and the rules warrant a red card.

yup lol

point remains what Suarez did was dirty... it was "unethical" and "unsportman-like"... it was instinctual and it says a lot about his character because of that. He was "cheating" the "fair ethics" of the game, point blank! Now i do understand if some is more lenient with what he did... some could simply frame it as it was a show of how much of a "winner" he is, and what lengths he would go to for it. And also in terms on the "dirty" scale it is not to the same degree as going to break someone's leg intentionally. Still, Kaz, your rebuttal is a good response to how Freeza framed his opinion.


It was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen in sport. July 2 2010 is when I fell out of love with the game all together in general. I was working as an intern in San Diego at a Hardware company at that point, and I sat in that cramped room and wept after that match. It still hurts over 10 years later.

He cheated EVERYBODY who loves football
Who loves sport
Who loves anything that is good, and civil and decent in the world.

That Ghana side, in my opinion, was good enough to beat the Netherlands. Would they have beat Spain in a final? Almost certainly not, but they should have been there. They were the best African team I had ever seen, and this is coming from someone who watched the 90's super eagles  .

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Post by Robespierre Mon May 10, 2021 7:59 pm

Young Kaz wrote:I want folks to have this same energy when they complain about Italy being robbed in the 2002 world cup.

Obviously the ref was a professional and knew what he was doing.

Your post would make sense if ref would not have given pen to Ghana and given red card to Suarez.
But he did both things.
So, what's the point ?
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Post by Myesyats Mon May 10, 2021 8:02 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
El Gunner wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:


In that way anything is acceptable to you.

What If he just went and broke Ayew's leg in the second half and got sent off? Tackling is in the game, and the rules warrant a red card.

yup lol

point remains what Suarez did was dirty... it was "unethical" and "unsportman-like"... it was instinctual and it says a lot about his character because of that. He was "cheating" the "fair ethics" of the game, point blank! Now i do understand if some is more lenient with what he did... some could simply frame it as it was a show of how much of a "winner" he is, and what lengths he would go to for it. And also in terms on the "dirty" scale it is not to the same degree as going to break someone's leg intentionally. Still, Kaz, your rebuttal is a good response to how Freeza framed his opinion.


It was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen in sport. July 2 2010 is when I fell out of love with the game all together in general. I was working as an intern in San Diego at a Hardware company at that point, and I sat in that cramped room and wept after that match. It still hurts over 10 years later.

He cheated EVERYBODY who loves football
Who loves sport
Who loves anything that is good, and civil and decent in the world.

That Ghana side, in my opinion, was good enough to beat the Netherlands. Would they have beat Spain in a final? Almost certainly not, but they should have been there. They were the best African team I had ever seen, and this is coming from someone who watched the 90's super eagles  .

What? Laughing

What a ridiculous take.

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon May 10, 2021 9:15 pm

Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

It's not remotely at the same level as leg-breaking a tackle or even a handball goal. He denies a clear goal-scoring opportunity with an infringement, and he got correctly a red card and a penalty awarded to Ghana, and they missed. If they deserved it, they would have won the game with other goals. It's not Suarez's fault that Gyan choked and missed.

Every Ghanian member in that team would have done the same thing at the other end, not caring for "Uruguayan dreams" the slightest.
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Post by Luca Mon May 10, 2021 9:23 pm

I’d argue that what Suarez did is much more acceptable than a leg-breaking tackle

It was a tactical play and a calculated risk, which paid off

Him biting Chiellini on the other hand, immoral and disgusting. The fact that nothing was done? Another story entirely

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Post by Young Kaz Mon May 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

It's not remotely at the same level as leg-breaking a tackle or even a handball goal. He denies a clear goal-scoring opportunity with an infringement, and he got correctly a red card and a penalty awarded to Ghana, and they missed. If they deserved it, they would have won the game with other goals. It's not Suarez's fault that Gyan choked and missed.

Every Ghanian member in that team would have done the same thing at the other end, not caring for "Uruguayan dreams" the slightest.


The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon May 10, 2021 9:42 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

It's not remotely at the same level as leg-breaking a tackle or even a handball goal. He denies a clear goal-scoring opportunity with an infringement, and he got correctly a red card and a penalty awarded to Ghana, and they missed. If they deserved it, they would have won the game with other goals. It's not Suarez's fault that Gyan choked and missed.

Every Ghanian member in that team would have done the same thing at the other end, not caring for "Uruguayan dreams" the slightest.


The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...


Not nearly the same thing.

Suarez's handball (which was going to be handled by a different player initially) was at the 120th minute in a knock-out game.

If there is any player in that situation, and they could have kept the ball in, then they would. If they don't, then it means they are more stupid than honest. In that same match, Ghana, just like Uruguay, committed their fair share of cynical and tactical fouls and got their cards for it. Saurez's garnered a red card and a penalty, which Gyan promptly choked and missed.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 9:54 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

lol bullshit
you get what you deserve, he made his decision, and he'll get his judgments for it

Kaz was 100% right, Ghana were the better team... and they were riding the African world cup wave and mostly everyone was behind them except for Uruguayans and haters... sure Gyan messed up the penalty chance... but in an alternate universe, Ghana totally deserves that goal going in to win the match if Suarez doesn't do that. The no name that also went with his hand trying to keep the ball out but failed would've gotten the same flack for it if it was him and not Suarez.
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Post by Katy Perry Mon May 10, 2021 9:58 pm

Usually the red for denying a clear goal opportunity is a harsher punishment than what the natural development of the unaltered action would have been. Usually when you deliberately stop an opponent going 1on1 against the keeper (which is about 0.5 xG) the ref awards the opposing team a penalty (which is roughly 0.75xG) and makes your team play the rest of the game 10v11. So it's a worse outcome, and this is widely accepted because everyone just wants to see the cleanest football possible. Obviously in some cases it's only a free kick, but you can argue that having to play in 10 is worse than having a 50% chance of conceding one goal.

In Suarez's case that was as clear of a goal opportunity as it can be. It was a 100% goal. And he cheated by making it only a 75% chance of being a goal. And considering it was the last action of the game, Uruguay only received half of the normal punishment and didn't have to play any remaining second of the game with 10.

Suarez stretched the boundaries of cheating. You can't possibly cheat more egregiously than that. You can't find a similar loophole where the punishment of an act of cheating is less impactful on the outcome of a game than the act of cheating itself. And worse of all it worked out for him Laughing
Football lost that night.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 9:59 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

It's not remotely at the same level as leg-breaking a tackle or even a handball goal. He denies a clear goal-scoring opportunity with an infringement, and he got correctly a red card and a penalty awarded to Ghana, and they missed. If they deserved it, they would have won the game with other goals. It's not Suarez's fault that Gyan choked and missed.

Every Ghanian member in that team would have done the same thing at the other end, not caring for "Uruguayan dreams" the slightest.


The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...


Not nearly the same thing.

Suarez's handball (which was going to be handled by a different player initially) was at the 120th minute in a knock-out game.

If there is any player in that situation, and they could have kept the ball in, then they would. If they don't, then it means they are more stupid than honest. In that same match, Ghana, just like Uruguay, committed their fair share of cynical and tactical fouls and got their cards for it. Saurez's garnered a red card and a penalty, which Gyan promptly choked and missed.

again, bullshit, and this mentality probably says more about you as a person and your ideals and values than anything else. The moment + your instinctual principles will decide the eventuality in that moment of time, not stupidity lol.

Mind you that i'm saying this and thinking to myself what i would have done in that situation, and im not even sure of myself.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 10:01 pm

Katy Perry wrote:Usually the red for denying a clear goal opportunity is a harsher punishment than what the natural development of the unaltered action would have been. Usually when you deliberately stop an opponent going 1on1 against the keeper (which is about 0.5 xG) the ref awards the opposing team a penalty (which is roughly 0.75xG) and makes your team play the rest of the game 10v11. So it's a worse outcome, and this is widely accepted because everyone just wants to see the cleanest football possible. Obviously in some cases it's only a free kick, but you can argue that having to play in 10 is worse than having a 50% chance of conceding one goal.

In Suarez's case that was as clear of a goal opportunity as it can be. It was a 100% goal. And he cheated by making it only a 75% chance of being a goal. And considering it was the last action of the game, Uruguay only received half of the normal punishment and didn't have to play any remaining second of the game with 10.

Suarez stretched the boundaries of cheating. You can't possibly cheat more egregiously than that. You can't find a similar loophole where the punishment of an act of cheating is less impactful on the outcome of a game than the act of cheating itself. And worse of all it worked out for him Laughing
Football lost that night.

yes, thank you, brilliantly put!
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Post by Young Kaz Mon May 10, 2021 10:14 pm

Lord Spencer wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:Suarez's red card against Ghana is perfectly acceptable.

Gyan missed, and that was that. People scapegoating Suarez when 90% of players would have done the same thing are being ridiculous.

It's not remotely at the same level as leg-breaking a tackle or even a handball goal. He denies a clear goal-scoring opportunity with an infringement, and he got correctly a red card and a penalty awarded to Ghana, and they missed. If they deserved it, they would have won the game with other goals. It's not Suarez's fault that Gyan choked and missed.

Every Ghanian member in that team would have done the same thing at the other end, not caring for "Uruguayan dreams" the slightest.


The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...


Not nearly the same thing.

Suarez's handball (which was going to be handled by a different player initially) was at the 120th minute in a knock-out game.

If there is any player in that situation, and they could have kept the ball in, then they would. If they don't, then it means they are more stupid than honest. In that same match, Ghana, just like Uruguay, committed their fair share of cynical and tactical fouls and got their cards for it. Saurez's garnered a red card and a penalty, which Gyan promptly choked and missed.


Thats the thing though. They could have cheated us and didnt. I respected that even if I was heartbroken they knocked us out of the world cup.

The idea in that instance that everybody would cheat is part of the reason why I fell out of love with the game. Its cheating, and if you will cheat that way you will cheat in any other way. I wouldnt want to win that way, and I wouldnt want a team than won that way. We dont like that in America. Which is why people like Lan Armstrong and the patriots are hated so much. Rather lose than cheat.

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Post by CBarca Mon May 10, 2021 10:29 pm

It's not cheating if it's within the rules lol. Suarez didn't cheat.

Hate the rules, not the player for doing the right thing for his team.
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Post by Katy Perry Mon May 10, 2021 10:39 pm

CBarca wrote:It's not cheating if it's within the rules lol. Suarez didn't cheat.

Hate the rules, not the player for doing the right thing for his team.

What Suarez did was not within the rules, it was an infringement of the rules (aka cheating). And it was one of the only times in football where the punishment for an infringement of the rules was less impactful than the infringement itself.

He cheated football and he basically cheated the way football punishes cheating in an unprecedented loophole.
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Post by Luca Mon May 10, 2021 10:42 pm

An intentional handball is not cheating, it’s a foul prescribed by the rules of the game

Cheating would be doping or forming a super league

I know all about cheating because Pirlo just cheated me out of watching Juventus in the champions league next season

Please don’t make Serie b jokes, I’m not in a laughing mood

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Post by Katy Perry Mon May 10, 2021 10:45 pm

Luca wrote:An intentional handball is not cheating, it’s a foul prescribed by the rules of the game

Cheating would be doping or forming a super league

I know all about cheating because Pirlo just cheated me out of watching Juventus in the champions league next season

Please don’t make Serie b jokes, I’m not in a laughing mood
That's just semantics. Any infringement of the rules is technically cheating. Just like doping is an infringement of the rules.
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 10:54 pm

CBarca wrote:It's not cheating if it's within the rules lol. Suarez didn't cheat.

Hate the rules, not the player for doing the right thing for his team.

trust CZelda to come into the thread and say the most laughable thing... how the hell exactly is it in the rules? Laughing rofl
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Post by El Gunner Mon May 10, 2021 10:55 pm

Luca wrote:An intentional handball is not cheating, it’s a foul prescribed by the rules of the game

Cheating would be doping or forming a super league

I know all about cheating because Pirlo just cheated me out of watching Juventus in the champions league next season

Please don’t make Serie b jokes, I’m not in a laughing mood

pls Luca you're smarter than this
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Post by Lord Spencer Mon May 10, 2021 11:15 pm

El Gunner wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:

The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...


Not nearly the same thing.

Suarez's handball (which was going to be handled by a different player initially) was at the 120th minute in a knock-out game.

If there is any player in that situation, and they could have kept the ball in, then they would. If they don't, then it means they are more stupid than honest. In that same match, Ghana, just like Uruguay, committed their fair share of cynical and tactical fouls and got their cards for it. Saurez's garnered a red card and a penalty, which Gyan promptly choked and missed.

again, bullshit, and this mentality probably says more about you as a person and your ideals and values than anything else. The moment + your instinctual principles will decide the eventuality in that moment of time, not stupidity lol.

Mind you that i'm saying this and thinking to myself what i would have done in that situation, and im not even sure of myself.


That's a hypocritical look when it is acceptable in the same match to commit yellow card fouls, tactical fouls, using hands, and basic play at the boundary of the law.

Ghana, in the same match, made tactical fouls stopping key counterattacks, and they got yellows for it. That's as much "cheating" as handling the ball in the penalty area (which was correctly ruled as a foul and a penalty).

Every player, in every country, in every knock-out match, would 100% do what Suarez did in the 120th minute of a match in order to give a chance to his country to win the game.

The rules were applied correctly, giving Ghana an 80% chance of scoring a goal, which they missed. Arguably, the rules can change to award a goal in cases such as this (which means players will no longer attempt to make such a block).

The narrative behind this being Ghana carrying Africa's dreams (which is scrub mentality at its finest as if Africans are a monolithic race) exaggerating this offense is laughable. It isn't even half as bad as Henry's goal against Ireland (which was a foul that wasn't caught, and Henry didn't admit it).

Cheating, in my opinion, is committing infringements and not admitting it or being punished for it. Sure, Suarez would have probably tried to cheat and pretend it wasn't a handball, but the moment the correct decision was ruled, it was entirely on Ghana's hand.

If they scored, we wouldn't be talking about it now, but they missed.

Ghana messed up, and it wasn't Suarez's fault. They should take ownership of their own shortcomings instead of scapegoating.

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Post by Luca Mon May 10, 2021 11:18 pm

Katy Perry wrote:
Luca wrote:An intentional handball is not cheating, it’s a foul prescribed by the rules of the game

Cheating would be doping or forming a super league

I know all about cheating because Pirlo just cheated me out of watching Juventus in the champions league next season

Please don’t make Serie b jokes, I’m not in a laughing mood
That's just semantics. Any infringement of the rules is technically cheating. Just like doping is an infringement of the rules.


I think there is a distinction between cheating and committing a foul, I’ve never seen someone who tripped another player described as a cheater, although they committed a foul

Chiellini had a handball yesterday which led to a penalty, the ball struck his hand which was away from his body, a foul and a penalty yes, did he cheat by being born with arms?

Unless you’re taking about the morality behind committing an intentional handball in those circumstances, if so, just say that

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Post by Lord Spencer Mon May 10, 2021 11:21 pm

Katy Perry wrote:
Luca wrote:An intentional handball is not cheating, it’s a foul prescribed by the rules of the game

Cheating would be doping or forming a super league

I know all about cheating because Pirlo just cheated me out of watching Juventus in the champions league next season

Please don’t make Serie b jokes, I’m not in a laughing mood
That's just semantics. Any infringement of the rules is technically cheating. Just like doping is an infringement of the rules.


So basically any tactical foul is "cheating", and any player that commits a tactical foul should be considered a cheater. Also, any player that commits a yellow card offense.

Fouling is part of the game, and getting punished for it is part of the game as well. The punishment for Suarez was a red card and a penalty, which is the worst possible punishment in the rules of the law.

The rules were applied correctly in the Ghana match, so no "cheating" occurred (unlike Maradona's and Henry's handball goals for example).

Sure, Suarez would have tried to cheat, but he couldn't, and Ghana had the chance to quickly seal the match.

They didn't, and so ensues this decade of crying.
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The unpopular opinion thread - Page 28 Empty Re: The unpopular opinion thread

Post by Myesyats Mon May 10, 2021 11:32 pm

Everyone seems to forget that ghana was a team of divers and time wasters and iirc the fk that led to this whole shebang shouldnt have been called bc it was, in fact,  a dive and I consider diving way worse than what Suarez did.


Last edited by Myesyats on Mon May 10, 2021 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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The unpopular opinion thread - Page 28 Empty Re: The unpopular opinion thread

Post by Lord Spencer Mon May 10, 2021 11:32 pm

Young Kaz wrote:
Lord Spencer wrote:
Young Kaz wrote:

The fullback for Ghana had the opportunity to do that to the USA and didnt...


Not nearly the same thing.

Suarez's handball (which was going to be handled by a different player initially) was at the 120th minute in a knock-out game.

If there is any player in that situation, and they could have kept the ball in, then they would. If they don't, then it means they are more stupid than honest. In that same match, Ghana, just like Uruguay, committed their fair share of cynical and tactical fouls and got their cards for it. Saurez's garnered a red card and a penalty, which Gyan promptly choked and missed.


Thats the thing though. They could have cheated us and didnt. I respected that even if I was heartbroken they knocked us out of the world cup.

The idea in that instance that everybody would cheat is part of the reason why I fell out of love with the game. Its cheating, and if you will cheat that way you will cheat in any other way. I wouldnt want to win that way, and I wouldnt want a team than won that way. We dont like that in America. Which is why people like Lan Armstrong and the patriots are hated so much. Rather lose than cheat.


Again, its not the same thing. The stakes were not the same in that match, so blocking the ball and getting a red (missing the next group game) and potentially still losing is not the same situation.

You are comparing this to Armstrong, who doped and won countless trophies doping, which is just ridiculous.

Here, it is crystal clear. Suarez handled the ball, was correctly sent off and a penalty given. End of story.

That Ghana missed the penalty and then lost on the penalty shootouts is entirely their fault. Suarez didn't come in and act as a second GK for their penalities, and Uruguay didn't have an advantage within the rules of the game.

If Suarez handles the ball and got away with it, I would 100% consider it cheating since he wasn't punished for the foul. But since it was punished, it is exactly like any other tactical foul in the match, which is part of the game, and was committed by both countries.
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