Courtois: I am a top 5 GK

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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:10 pm

As I already said, what his team does isnt a fair reflection on his ability at all. What your saying is completely unfair.

If he has no saves to make (which has been the case at times) during a game, that doesnt detract from his ability at all.

You can only judge him on what he does as a goalie, not at what he hasnt had the chance to do to, or not do.

And your also wrong anyway, he saved us against Drogba on two difference occasion (something you should know) the first the double save in our home game and a 1 v 1 at the Bridge when you was up 1-0 before Iniesta, made a 1v 1 save on Cristiano in the 09 CL finals when the game was still at 0-0 or 1-0 to us I dont remember, saved at point blank vs Arsenal I forget which game but it was important and many more I dont even recall.

And above all this, your central point isnt true. Replace Valdes with Iker or Buffon and much of what Barca has done bogs down because both are shitty with their feet.

I think people still cant see he isnt the same goalie he was before Pep, I could probably show youtube videos of all this stuff btw if I bothered looking but I doubt anyone will watch anyway.

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Post by Pip Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:15 pm

The Franchise wrote:Valdes has made literally one error, he miskicked a long pass and it went to the opponant..nothing came of it after that. One mistake....other than that he has been literally error free and has made fantastic saves.
You're using the term "literally" way too liberally, especially considering your rationale for an error. For example, against Valencia he mis-kicked a long pass that went straight to the opponent, and after a short sequence of play Adriano was given a yellow card for making a dangerous studs-up tackle on Banega or Canales -- if he did not commit to that tackle, the player in question would have had a lot of space on the right wing, enough space to take eight or nine more touches of the ball before release.

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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:18 pm

I know what you mean, and I know its not fair to judge his abilities based on how good his team has been but that's not what I'm doing.

I'll agree he has been slightly better during the Pep years but not significantly imo. I may be wrong and you'd probably know better but what exactly has Valdes been doing with his feet that would be difficult for Iker or Buffon? Its not like he was making crosses from his box to the edge of the opponent's box for Messi to latch on to, is it? Isn't all he's been doing passing it between himself, Alves/Abidal & Busquets? I don't see how Iker & Buffon couldn't do that. How complicated can such passing get?

I'll give you the Drogba save though. I was gonna say any good GK should have made some of those saves but that would be unfair to Valdes. Those were good saves anyway so yeah you're right on those.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:20 pm

Pippo wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Valdes has made literally one error, he miskicked a long pass and it went to the opponant..nothing came of it after that. One mistake....other than that he has been literally error free and has made fantastic saves.
You're using the term "literally" way too liberally, especially considering your rationale for an error. For example, against Valencia he mis-kicked a long pass that went straight to the opponent, and after a short sequence of play Adriano was given a yellow card for making a dangerous studs-up tackle on Banega or Canales -- if he did not commit to that tackle, the player in question would have had a lot of space on the right wing, enough space to take eight or nine more touches of the ball before release.
So...where are you refuting my point exactly?

I said he literally one error this season...unless you know of a 2nd error I missed, where am I wrong?
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:23 pm

Blue Barrett wrote:Valdes literally hasn't had any significant impact on Barca's success in the Rijkaard years and in the Pep years. Seriously, swap him with any other half decent GK and nothing changes.
A Chelsea should know full well that isn't true.... the amount of one on ones he saved from Drogba over the year has been the difference between defeat and victory.

In the Arsenal final.... he was the reason they won making countless saves from Henry.

In fact in the majority of semi's and finals he was a big reason they were able to win...... but he gets glossed over because Barca ended up winning comfortably in the end due to sheer amount of attacking firepower.

But on many many occasions Valdes kept them in the game in important moments, its quite sad that people still refuse to accept this.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:25 pm

Blue Barrett wrote:I know what you mean, and I know its not fair to judge his abilities based on how good his team has been but that's not what I'm doing.

I'll agree he has been slightly better during the Pep years but not significantly imo. I may be wrong and you'd probably know better but what exactly has Valdes been doing with his feet that would be difficult for Iker or Buffon? Its not like he was making crosses from his box to the edge of the opponent's box for Messi to latch on to, is it? Isn't all he's been doing passing it between himself, Alves/Abidal & Busquets? I don't see how Iker & Buffon couldn't do that. How complicated can such passing get?

I'll give you the Drogba save though. I was gonna say any good GK should have made some of those saves but that would be unfair to Valdes. Those were good saves anyway so yeah you're right on those.
Well I think he has been alot better. In those pre Pep years I wanted his head on a chopping block, he was awful and nowhere near good enough.

And if we had Iker or Buffon instead of Valdes, no way would we be able to build from the back patiently like we have done. This season a bit less so, but previously his composure and ability to play short or long passes (which both feet) allow us to keep the ball. If we had one of those two, albiet legendary goalies, they dont have the composure and would kick it long much quicker and we would obviously lose the ball alot more because we dont win aerial balls. If that happens we have to defend more and obviously we are bad at defending.

No way those two are able to do stuff like this with the consistency he does.

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Post by Pip Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:28 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Pippo wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Valdes has made literally one error, he miskicked a long pass and it went to the opponant..nothing came of it after that. One mistake....other than that he has been literally error free and has made fantastic saves.
You're using the term "literally" way too liberally, especially considering your rationale for an error. For example, against Valencia he mis-kicked a long pass that went straight to the opponent, and after a short sequence of play Adriano was given a yellow card for making a dangerous studs-up tackle on Banega or Canales -- if he did not commit to that tackle, the player in question would have had a lot of space on the right wing, enough space to take eight or nine more touches of the ball before release.
So...where are you refuting my point exactly?

I said he literally one error this season...unless you know of a 2nd error I missed, where am I wrong?
Are you having difficulty understanding what I put across? You've stated that Valdés has made "literally one error", when he has not when following your own rationale. If an error to you is mis-kicking a long ball that results in possession for the opposition that results in nothing, what does it mean to you if there is a scene where Valdés mis-kicks a long ball and as a result his own player receives a yellow card? Valdés has mis-kicked more than a dozen long balls this season, so no, Valdés has not "literally" made on error this season, and no, Valdés has not been "literally" error free.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:31 pm

Ok it didnt literally result in nothing, but I was trying to say it didnt result in a goal.

He has miskicks more than a dozen balls? Thats bullshit frankly.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:33 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:Valdes literally hasn't had any significant impact on Barca's success in the Rijkaard years and in the Pep years. Seriously, swap him with any other half decent GK and nothing changes.
A Chelsea should know full well that isn't true.... the amount of one on ones he saved from Drogba over the year has been the difference between defeat and victory.

In the Arsenal final.... he was the reason they won making countless saves from Henry.

.


Even in his crap days.
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Post by Blue Barrett Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:56 pm

Tbh, I'd never taken note of his passing in particular. That's an interesting video. I'll admit I carried a lot of pre Pep bias about him but its butterfly effect stuff, tbh. If that was Iker then he'd probably be a La Masia product and he'd probably know how to pass better but that's just fantasy. Facts are facts and neither Iker or Buffon can pass like that so fair play to Valdes.
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Post by The Franchise Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:37 pm

Thats true, if Iker grew up learning and training the same way he too probably would of developed it.

Pre Pep, Valdes wasnt this level with the ball either to be fair. Guardiola did alot for him, his entire career. There is a documentary floating about somewhere, Valdes really didnt love football a great deal of have the type of passion for goalkeeping you might expect before Pep.

Pep really gave Valdes a level of importance (much more than it shows in games for sure) which he enjoyed and I think that turned his game around. He felt more part of the team because he saw his value to our build up play and with that his confidence grew I guess.

He isnt alone either, I think Mascherano, Yaya, Keita and perhaps Abidal really really improved their passing and composure after joining Barca, it really has helped that side of their game and now I see for example Yaya really showing to be a really good passer and even controlling the game sometimes at City.
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Post by CBarca Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:04 pm

Valdes hate has always been there so I'm going to ignore that.

The Lloris hate in this thread from several members is hilarious. He's been one of the best GK's in the EPL since coming and consistently saves Tottenham's average ass defense week in week out. Would love to have him at Barca personally. Not to mention he's fantastic for France. I'm not exactly sure what he has to do to get recognition but haters will be haters I guess, Lloris is one of the best in Europe right now.
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Post by Pip Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:41 pm

The Franchise wrote:Ok it didnt literally result in nothing, but I was trying to say it didnt result in a goal.
Fair enough.
The Franchise wrote:He has miskicks more than a dozen balls? Thats bullshit frankly.
He has. Literally.
CBarca wrote:Not to mention he's fantastic for France.
He hasn't. He was average at the 2012 European Championships, and he has been average apart from a game or two during the qualification stage. His match against Belarus was just woeful as well.

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Post by Forza Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:48 pm

I can see why this ended up in the RB section.

Also, some people's knowledge of Serie A goalkeepers in this thread is shockingly bad.
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Post by CBarca Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:19 pm

You can nitpick what I can say or respond to it as a whole. Either way, even with the nitpicking, from someone who watches the France NT consistently

sportsczy wrote:Just from a France NT standpoint... Lloris has been saving our arse a lot since 2010.  As an example, the 2 Spain games in WCQ:  In the first one, he was nothing short of incredible.  Saved a PK and made incredible saves...  even in the 1-0 loss in Paris, he got a hand on that tap in by Pedro.  He was an inch away from saving it from point blank.
Sports is notoriously biased on French matters but in this case he doesn't really have anything to be biased about.

He's made mistakes as all keepers do but I have the good fortune of watching him week in week out and he's a top 5 goalkeeper and, relating this back to the thread, much better than Courtois, who...I also watch fairly regularly.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:34 am

Gil wrote:Courtois...error prone.....Joe....Hart Laughing

One of his biggest strengths is his concentration ffs. His composure at such a young age is remarkable, lad is hardly ever flustered.

He's fantastic 1v1, in the air and has superb reflexes as well. His only weakness is on long shots, he concedes far too many screamers for it to be a coincidence. Distribution could also do with a bit of work as well.
He is not fantastic in one on ones. What are you on? He is very slow coming out of the goal and when he does he usually goes to ground at the first faint (because he knows otherwise he would never reach a ground ball because he is so slow). And barely ever he is in one on one situations playing for Atletico.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:40 am

Blue Barrett wrote:
The Franchise wrote:The 6 Free said were undisputed better than him, those 6 plus Julio and Lloris for sure. Weidenfeller is also a safer goalkeeper to me, even if less talented and I prefer his safety.

Those guys are for me better, some of the other names I am not sure about.

So you're referring to the first 6 he named, then? Of which Valdes is really nothing special(don't act like he is)
Dude, if you are trying to argue that Courtois is better than Valdes you should stop watching football. It's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. Valdes is currently the most on form GK in the world, and he has been for the last 5 years except the past season.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:47 am

Blue Barrett wrote:Valdes literally hasn't had any significant impact on Barca's success in the Rijkaard years and in the Pep years. Seriously, swap him with any other half decent GK and nothing changes.
You are drugged:



With Valdes people are stucked in 2002.
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Post by Kick Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:48 am

free_cat wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:
The Franchise wrote:The 6 Free said were undisputed better than him, those 6 plus Julio and Lloris for sure. Weidenfeller is also a safer goalkeeper to me, even if less talented and I prefer his safety.

Those guys are for me better, some of the other names I am not sure about.

So you're referring to the first 6 he named, then? Of which Valdes is really nothing special(don't act like he is)
Dude, if you are trying to argue that Courtois is better than Valdes you should stop watching football. It's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. Valdes is currently the most on form GK in the world, and he has been for the last 5 years except the past season.
He has been the most on form GK for the past 5 years? rofl You realise that means he's been on top form for 5 years, Yeah, no.

While I don't think Courtois is top 5, he's certainly top 15 and one of the youngest top class GK's in the world. He'll only get better.

I've never understood Barca fan's hate of him, it's been around as long as he's been linked to him but they don't seem to like any other GK than Valdes and currently don't want any CB except for T. Silva despite their current CB problems. I guess you just can't please some people. Laughing
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:16 am

Kick wrote:
free_cat wrote:
Blue Barrett wrote:So you're referring to the first 6 he named, then? Of which Valdes is really nothing special(don't act like he is)
Dude, if you are trying to argue that Courtois is better than Valdes you should stop watching football. It's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. Valdes is currently the most on form GK in the world, and he has been for the last 5 years except the past season.
He has been the most on form GK for the past 5 years? 🤣You realise that means he's been on top form for 5 years, Yeah, no.

While I don't think Courtois is top 5, he's certainly top 15 and one of the youngest top class GK's in the world. He'll only get better.

I've never understood Barca fan's hate of him, it's been around as long as he's been linked to him but they don't seem to like any other GK than Valdes and currently don't want any CB except for T. Silva despite their current CB problems. I guess you just can't please some people. Laughing
If you read carefully, you'll see I said "except past season". The other four seasons, Valdes has indeed been in top form.

See, your statement is reasonable. Courtois is indeed a top 15 GK and one of the best young GK in the world.

We don't hate Courtois and have no reason to hate him, and we do want another CB even if he is not Thiago Silva.


Last edited by free_cat on Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:17 am

CBarca wrote:Valdes hate has always been there so I'm going to ignore that.

The Lloris hate in this thread from several members is hilarious. He's been one of the best GK's in the EPL since coming and consistently saves Tottenham's average ass defense week in week out. Would love to have him at Barca personally. Not to mention he's fantastic for France. I'm not exactly sure what he has to do to get recognition but haters will be haters I guess, Lloris is one of the best in Europe right now.
Yeah.. please do tell in what games Lloris has single handedly saved Tottenham.
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Post by Kick Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:21 am

free_cat wrote:
Kick wrote:
free_cat wrote:Dude, if you are trying to argue that Courtois is better than Valdes you should stop watching football. It's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. Valdes is currently the most on form GK in the world, and he has been for the last 5 years except the past season.
He has been the most on form GK for the past 5 years? 🤣You realise that means he's been on top form for 5 years, Yeah, no.

While I don't think Courtois is top 5, he's certainly top 15 and one of the youngest top class GK's in the world. He'll only get better.

I've never understood Barca fan's hate of him, it's been around as long as he's been linked to him but they don't seem to like any other GK than Valdes and currently don't want any CB except for T. Silva despite their current CB problems. I guess you just can't please some people. Laughing
If you read carefully, you'll see I said "except past season". The other four seasons, Valdes has indeed been in top form.

See, your statement is reasonable. Courtois is indeed a top 15 GK and one of the best young GK in the world. We don't hate Courtois and have no reason to hate him, and we do want another CB even if he is not Thiago Silva.
Including that you are saying that at no point during the seasons you mentioned has his formed dipped and not only that, you are claiming his form to be better than every other GK in the world. Now that is just not true. Cech, Neuer, Buffon, Casillas and going back a few years, Van Der Sar were all better than him at some point or another.

That's not to say he's been poor, I just think your statement is over the top.

I've been reading the transfer rumour thread in the Barca section, not many players make it through there without at least one poster saying 'he sucks because ____'

It's baffling, you're a hard to please lot.
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:46 am

Was bored, so came up with this. Couldn't find a detailed list anywhere else.

Courtois: I am a top 5 GK - Page 4 WvPfcJ9

Shot-stopping definitely isn't the only thing that defines a great goalkeeper, but when you're supposedly one of the top goalkeepers in the world, you surely need to be in the list of the top 10 shot-stoppers in domestic competition, no?
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Post by Kick Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:55 am

Cech ffs :bow:
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:20 am

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Was bored, so came up with this. Couldn't find a detailed list anywhere else.

Courtois: I am a top 5 GK - Page 4 WvPfcJ9

Shot-stopping definitely isn't the only thing that defines a great goalkeeper, but when you're supposedly one of the top goalkeepers in the world, you surely need to be in the list of the top 10 shot-stoppers in domestic competition, no?
It's only EPL?
Valdes save % in the past seasons was around 80% and De Gea before leaving Spain was around the same as in england.
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Post by M99 Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:28 am

Kick wrote:
While I don't think Courtois is top 5, he's certainly top 15 and one of the youngest top class GK's in the world. He
*applause*

Finally a Chelsea fan not blinded by bias.
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