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Batista vs Menezes.
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Adit
Ganso
Great Leader Sprucenuce
Senor Penguin
guest7
rsinatra
Albiceleste
awalezelin
biggiejay
Mr Nick09
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
this needs a bump. both failed with panache
Mr Nick09- Forum Legend
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
menez atleast has his own fail ideas though, pep batista has pep's fail ideas lended lol
Re: Batista vs Menezes.
Adit wrote:menez atleast has his own fail ideas though, pep batista has pep's fail ideas lended lol
So we are giving Menez extra credit for failing all by himself?
Makes sense definitely.
Great Leader Sprucenuce- Forum Legend
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
I really dont know
Batistas goal: Build a great environment for messi and make him thrive
Menezes: Create cohesion among brazil class of WC2014
Batistas goal: Build a great environment for messi and make him thrive
Menezes: Create cohesion among brazil class of WC2014
Yuri Yukuv- First Team
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
was joking both should get the stick ASAPImmaculate_Mole wrote:Adit wrote:menez atleast has his own fail ideas though, pep batista has pep's fail ideas lended lol
So we are giving Menez extra credit for failing all by himself?
Makes sense definitely.
but still menez played with U-19 squad though
Re: Batista vs Menezes.
This assesment still holds truesportsczy wrote:Batista is horrible. Mano is meh. Impressed by neither. They're being too drastic with their methods. There's no need with the talent and depth of these two countries.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
rsinatra wrote:St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:getting the tactics wrong is a more punishable offense than getting the players wrong.
With a different set of players, Argentina would look much better, while Brazil doesnt have a clue of how they should go about attacking, it's a mess.
I think Batista at least has an idea of what the team should play like, and he is committed to it, while Menezes just after the 1st game was already changing the outlay.
Despite all of Mano's flaws, I think he does have a clear idea of what he is trying to do, the problem is that it isn't easy. In fact, he took the hardest road possible. He could be fielding a squad and using tactics similar to Dunga's, and in that he'd probably be getting better results, but he is trying to go for a team playing with the ball, passing, dominating possession and creating good chances. Playing like the bigger side - something Dunga didn't do.
It'll take a while for it to start functioning properly. But he has to try it, because if he didn't, then all of you would be here criticizing Brazil for winning with ugly football.
You can't compare him to Argentina's coach who changed nothing from the first game. Wasn't he the one who almost ruled Tevez out of the Copa América, only to give in to pressure and call him up in the end? No personality.
I'm going to say this now, and I hope you don't get me wrong: the Copa América is a practicing tournament for Brazil. It is simply not our primary objective. Our objective is to be ready for the 2014 WC, which we must win since it'll be in Brazil. Period. What is most important for us that we can at least get some good tests, real training, and hopefully some decent performances towards the end of the tournament. And even if we can't get them, it won't be the end of the world for Brazil, and it shouldn't be for Mano, because he simply hasn't had enough time to accomplish any realistic thing. I applaud him for taking Robinho out, somebody had to have the guts to do it, that guy is overrated and hasn't made a truly good performance for our country since the WC. I don't know if Jadson was our best option, but he is more experienced than Lucas, and despite not having a great game, he did score our first goal, so no one can argue there.
Mano is doing the right thing by investing in Ganso, Neymar, and Pato now. This is Ganso's and Neymar's first time with Brazil, and they need to learn to deal with the pressure now rather than later. I shouldn't even mention the fact that Neymar has just come from an exhaustive semester leading Santos to two titles (one of them the biggest in South America), or the fact that Ganso came back from injury a few days before departing for Argentina. But you just can't expect them to be like they are at Santos, because they don't know the seleção players as well as they know the Peixe players yet, particularly Ganso, who despite not being at his best, had a better performance last night and showed why he's so precious to us with some fine passing.
Mano needs to find the fourth man. Will it be Lucas? I don't know, but I'm not sure he's mature enough. He does bring in some personality, and if not now, then perhaps in a couple of years, Neymar-Ganso-Lucas-Pato could be a sight to behold. How about Hulk? That's one option he should really consider, and one I'd approve of. Would it work? It has to be tried after this Copa.
He cannot be expected to call up Kaká, Ronaldinho, Fabiano, etc, people who most likely won't be at the World Cup. Like I said, this is practicing for us, we need to get a good chemistry going, so we need to invest in the players that might be there.
He's making a risky move when investing in people like André Santos, who are irregular, and imo not good enough for the seleção. Marcelo should be there, but really he most likely wouldn't have helped our poor defending last night. At least Mano stood his ground, and by doing so he could be signing his own death certificate, or leading us to glory. A coach has to be firm.
Another thing I don't like is T. Silva sending those long balls to Pato. What is that? They keep trying it, but I think we should play with the ball on the ground. With patience, like Brasil should play. Those long balls work in 2 out of 5 attempts.
Anyway. everyone here's criticized Mano for calling up Jadson and Fred, so now we've all gotten a slap on our faces.
Great post rsinatra , and about the fourth man I think I have an answer. The man who score 40 goals and led his team to a treble, HULK.
M99- Forum Legend
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
milanista99 wrote:rsinatra wrote:St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:getting the tactics wrong is a more punishable offense than getting the players wrong.
With a different set of players, Argentina would look much better, while Brazil doesnt have a clue of how they should go about attacking, it's a mess.
I think Batista at least has an idea of what the team should play like, and he is committed to it, while Menezes just after the 1st game was already changing the outlay.
Despite all of Mano's flaws, I think he does have a clear idea of what he is trying to do, the problem is that it isn't easy. In fact, he took the hardest road possible. He could be fielding a squad and using tactics similar to Dunga's, and in that he'd probably be getting better results, but he is trying to go for a team playing with the ball, passing, dominating possession and creating good chances. Playing like the bigger side - something Dunga didn't do.
It'll take a while for it to start functioning properly. But he has to try it, because if he didn't, then all of you would be here criticizing Brazil for winning with ugly football.
You can't compare him to Argentina's coach who changed nothing from the first game. Wasn't he the one who almost ruled Tevez out of the Copa América, only to give in to pressure and call him up in the end? No personality.
I'm going to say this now, and I hope you don't get me wrong: the Copa América is a practicing tournament for Brazil. It is simply not our primary objective. Our objective is to be ready for the 2014 WC, which we must win since it'll be in Brazil. Period. What is most important for us that we can at least get some good tests, real training, and hopefully some decent performances towards the end of the tournament. And even if we can't get them, it won't be the end of the world for Brazil, and it shouldn't be for Mano, because he simply hasn't had enough time to accomplish any realistic thing. I applaud him for taking Robinho out, somebody had to have the guts to do it, that guy is overrated and hasn't made a truly good performance for our country since the WC. I don't know if Jadson was our best option, but he is more experienced than Lucas, and despite not having a great game, he did score our first goal, so no one can argue there.
Mano is doing the right thing by investing in Ganso, Neymar, and Pato now. This is Ganso's and Neymar's first time with Brazil, and they need to learn to deal with the pressure now rather than later. I shouldn't even mention the fact that Neymar has just come from an exhaustive semester leading Santos to two titles (one of them the biggest in South America), or the fact that Ganso came back from injury a few days before departing for Argentina. But you just can't expect them to be like they are at Santos, because they don't know the seleção players as well as they know the Peixe players yet, particularly Ganso, who despite not being at his best, had a better performance last night and showed why he's so precious to us with some fine passing.
Mano needs to find the fourth man. Will it be Lucas? I don't know, but I'm not sure he's mature enough. He does bring in some personality, and if not now, then perhaps in a couple of years, Neymar-Ganso-Lucas-Pato could be a sight to behold. How about Hulk? That's one option he should really consider, and one I'd approve of. Would it work? It has to be tried after this Copa.
He cannot be expected to call up Kaká, Ronaldinho, Fabiano, etc, people who most likely won't be at the World Cup. Like I said, this is practicing for us, we need to get a good chemistry going, so we need to invest in the players that might be there.
He's making a risky move when investing in people like André Santos, who are irregular, and imo not good enough for the seleção. Marcelo should be there, but really he most likely wouldn't have helped our poor defending last night. At least Mano stood his ground, and by doing so he could be signing his own death certificate, or leading us to glory. A coach has to be firm.
Another thing I don't like is T. Silva sending those long balls to Pato. What is that? They keep trying it, but I think we should play with the ball on the ground. With patience, like Brasil should play. Those long balls work in 2 out of 5 attempts.
Anyway. everyone here's criticized Mano for calling up Jadson and Fred, so now we've all gotten a slap on our faces.
Great post rsinatra , and about the fourth man I think I have an answer. The man who score 40 goals and led his team to a treble, HULK.
If Robinho always played as well as he did last night, we'd be fine. But it really is time to try Hulk.
rsinatra- First Team
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
With Brazil, the problem is not the forwards. It's the midfield. Ganso is completely passive out there when he needs to impose his will and get the ball flowing. Lucas and Ramirez are hard workers, but not technically gifted enough to play together. You only need one of those two guys.
Amazingly enough, Brazil lacks one more creative player in the midfield. It could be Kaka. But i don't think Ganso and Kaka can coexist. Need a creative b2b player.
Amazingly enough, Brazil lacks one more creative player in the midfield. It could be Kaka. But i don't think Ganso and Kaka can coexist. Need a creative b2b player.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
They're both very mediocre. Our "lesser" teams and coaches have made them look like utter shit, so it's really not an excuse 2 of the biggest sides in the world filled up the ass with star players can't perform.
Tactically and player choice wise both are clueless. Brazil's problems aren't just tactical, either. The emission of Hulk, Luiz Gustavo, Kaka and bringing in all these unknown players as starters is a strange one. I have no problem developing your local youth, but integrate them bit by bit, don't just throw them into the fray and expect them to develop.
I'm sorry, but Fred = Shit.
Tactically and player choice wise both are clueless. Brazil's problems aren't just tactical, either. The emission of Hulk, Luiz Gustavo, Kaka and bringing in all these unknown players as starters is a strange one. I have no problem developing your local youth, but integrate them bit by bit, don't just throw them into the fray and expect them to develop.
I'm sorry, but Fred = Shit.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
Sushi Master wrote:They're both very mediocre. Our "lesser" teams and coaches have made them look like utter shit, so it's really not an excuse 2 of the biggest sides in the world filled up the ass with star players can't perform.
Tactically and player choice wise both are clueless. Brazil's problems aren't just tactical, either. The emission of Hulk, Luiz Gustavo, Kaka and bringing in all these unknown players as starters is a strange one. I have no problem developing your local youth, but integrate them bit by bit, don't just throw them into the fray and expect them to develop.
I'm sorry, but Fred = Shit.
It's not strange dude, our goal is to get the young players used to the pressure. And they have been playing for a year under Mano now, except for Ganso and Pato who were injured a lot.
Ganso really needs to work harder, he's invisible, and doesn't run back to defend so well.
rsinatra- First Team
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
Our real problem is that Neymar and Pato, especially Pato who is our centerforward, didn't do their jobs. Brazil improved a lot, dominated the match (Paraguay attacked twice throughout the match I think), and weren't playing that bad. If Pato and Neymar did their jobs, now we'd be in for a semi final against Venezuela.
Mano can't walk onto the pitch and score for them, or take penalties for them.
Mano can't walk onto the pitch and score for them, or take penalties for them.
rsinatra- First Team
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
There wasn't much Pato and Neymar could do. I saw the match and the goalkeeper was out of the world, denied every chance you could get. The hihglight is the Pato shot he stopped, Villar was the 8055 that game.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
Pato needs to bulk up if he's to be that 9 you're looking for. IMO, Hulk would have done nicely here penetrating defenses on pure physique and power. Can't always just pass the ball into the net.
I understand the logic, but Fred, Andres Santos and co are just mediocre players who you could have replaced with real class.
I understand the logic, but Fred, Andres Santos and co are just mediocre players who you could have replaced with real class.
Sushi Master- Fan Favorite
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
There wasnt much Pato and Neymar could do? Come on, Neymar had a golden chance, and what did he do? He tried to dribble a defender and THEN shoot, which gave time for all of Paraguay's defenders to come and back the GK, so when the ball when past him, a defender took it. If he had just shot it right away, there was time to place it in nicely enough. Pato couldve done better too. But I am not trying to take any credit away from the keeper, he was good, but sometimes even a great goalkeeper cant help it when the striker is good enough.
Hulk is not a striker, he plays on the wing, so Mano had to choose, and he chose Robinho, Neymar, etc. Yes, Fred is mediocre, but he is a number 9. We don't have any world class #9.
Hulk is not a striker, he plays on the wing, so Mano had to choose, and he chose Robinho, Neymar, etc. Yes, Fred is mediocre, but he is a number 9. We don't have any world class #9.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
Last night was bad luck as Brazil should have won. But Brazil has shown plenty of meh-ness to question Mano. The substitutions going into OT and the PK taking choices were just stupid (why do you take Pato out with 10 mins to go before PKs?).
I think Mano is a very meh coach. He also does a poor job of choosing players... you can't go with all youngsters. You need some leadership + experience. Fred is huge head scratcher. Putting Neymar as a false 9 and playing Hulk and Robinho on the wings is a much better choice. You can't play non-quality players. It's like playing with a man down.
I think Mano is a very meh coach. He also does a poor job of choosing players... you can't go with all youngsters. You need some leadership + experience. Fred is huge head scratcher. Putting Neymar as a false 9 and playing Hulk and Robinho on the wings is a much better choice. You can't play non-quality players. It's like playing with a man down.
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Re: Batista vs Menezes.
well have lus fabiano back soon.Also we had Kleber who is much better than Fred.rsinatra wrote:There wasnt much Pato and Neymar could do? Come on, Neymar had a golden chance, and what did he do? He tried to dribble a defender and THEN shoot, which gave time for all of Paraguay's defenders to come and back the GK, so when the ball when past him, a defender took it. If he had just shot it right away, there was time to place it in nicely enough. Pato couldve done better too. But I am not trying to take any credit away from the keeper, he was good, but sometimes even a great goalkeeper cant help it when the striker is good enough.
Hulk is not a striker, he plays on the wing, so Mano had to choose, and he chose Robinho, Neymar, etc. Yes, Fred is mediocre, but he is a number 9. We don't have any world class #9.
Honestly,when i look at players like andre santos,elias,jadson,fred(all players mano worked with before)I feel like hes just calling up his friends.As i said before,i dont care about the tactics,because lets be honest,their GK was the main reason they didnt go home yesterday.My problem is with his damn squad and calling up people who simply dont deserve it.
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Similar topics
» Menezes needs a new job
» If you had Menezes job!
» Menezes is staying!?
» Mano Menezes is a selfish *****
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» If you had Menezes job!
» Menezes is staying!?
» Mano Menezes is a selfish *****
» Batista sacked from Argentina NT
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