Transfer Rumours V4

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Post by free_cat Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:48 am

No, obviously we will not solve our problems with that, but we will renew our team with younger and better players. Our teams need a renovation that was needed last summer and it wasn't done.

However, to solve our problems we would need a good tactical manager, which we currently don't have.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:02 pm

Im alright Free, keep your advice to yourself.

Your the last person to be talking about blind bias on here. Other than Harmoncia obviously.

Why would I be bias for or against any player? I just have my opinion and I dont really care if its popular or not. Thats it really.

You on the other hand, a bit different.

You have your reasons we all know.

And second to that, you think because of our decline nothing remaining from those time are salvageable. Other than a couple of pieces which have their own problems but you blindly defend yourself..like Messi.


Back on the subject. How is Kroos for Xavi going to fix the problems in midfield. Does Kroos have superior defensive skills than our current options? Doe he transition faster? Does he bring more dynamism?

And who plays deep in the double pivot? Him? Same for Koke...neither play that position currently, so I am somewhat intrested to hear your logic behind all this.

Cesc lost 2 balls? Yeah, I call bs mate. And even so, the number is not as important as how he lost the balls.

Cesc and Iniesta in a 433 again? Good joke. I have seen the signs of fail enough already. Better than Xavi? Another good joke. When Xavi left the pitch we lost control..what was Cesc doing at that time?

Give me some stats to quantify that Harmoncia Free?

That lineup Donut put there isnt good, he said so himself when he said "even then it still looks really wrong in every way possible."
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Post by free_cat Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:53 pm

But, what are you telling me? That Xavi is the best CM in the world or that Barça can get and that he will be next year with 35 years? Really?
Come on.

Of course Kroos, Gundogan or Koke are much stronger than Xavi defensively (specially the last two), but also right now are probably better than Xavi in attack too. He doesn't make a difference anymore. Kroos doesn't play in the double pivot true, we could try him there though, but Koke and Gundogan surely do. Anyway, we wouldn't need a double pivot for most matches, so Kroos could play as a CM as he does all the time for Bayern.

I didn't see any change in play after or before Xavi went off, we played the same and had the same control, only Mascherano messed up in a la Real counter when before that he was doing fine. Truth is that under Tata we don't really have that much control, and that's also another reason Xavi is redundant. Tata's game doesn't suit him.

I don't have absolutely anything against Xavi, I'm a big fan of his and was a huge supporter when people wanted him out pre-2008. I just see (I think it's really obvious) that Xavi is not decisive anymore and that we would be better off building for the future, because obviously at 34 he won't get better.

I think this is all very logical unless someone has a rejuvenating machine.

Oh, and I defend Messi when he desrves it, I agreed with everyone that his walkfest vs. Valencia was way too much walking, however, his last games are ok to me. He just needs to find the balance he had under Pep when he was already not running too much (the player that ran the least in Europe).

PS. Please tell me my reasons for being biased, because I don't know them.


Last edited by free_cat on Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:06 am

Free whenever Xavi is taken off we lose possession much more, and when he is introduced we gain it. And when we lose control we become defensively frail and just more exposed. I still think he is absolutely key for us. He may be past it, he's not as consistent anymore, but the reason he is the first midfield sub is one of rotations I believe, not a tactical one. Martino wants Xavi to be as sharp as possible. I wouldn't say he is past it, but we do have to find a way to live without him. And that might mean to find a new way to play because we are never going to find a copy of him to replace him.
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Post by free_cat Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:09 am

I completely disagree that we lose posession. I don't see it and data doesn't say that also.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:11 am

Just to be clear: we don't lose possession, we just have less of it than with Xavi on the pitch.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:03 am

Data? When did you start relying on stats? You need stats for what you can see with your own eyes?

Anyway, no I am not telling you Xavi is still the best in the world. I am saying he still has value. Obviously we need another midfielder, I said that many times, but surely we need someone who brings something we lack?

Those players you named are hardly the obvious answer to the problems.

Kroos is pretty slow and while he tries, noone is mistaking him for Vidal or someone defensively. Obviously he is a great player, but he wont make fix our issues transitioning in the midfield.

Also why play him in a double pivot? Surely a double pivot works best with the configuration of a holding player, a creator and a box to box. Busquets would be the holding player, Cesc the creator and Kroos the box to box? Nah, doesnt work for me, thats not his game.

Gundogen hasnt played in like a year, I love the guy but we need to see his return before you go head over heels for the guy.

Koke is a fine player, I am not totally sold on his talent like you are but I am open to the idea. But do we need to SELL Xavi to bring him in...no. Why would we?


Sure, maybe you dont have anything against Xavi. I dont see why you would. But I dont agree with your opinions on him and feel they are highly exaggerated. You speak like he has no use, when in fact he very much can.

And its the same with Dani Alves. Nowhere did I say him, nor Xavi are the same players as say 4 years ago. In fact I have said both are not more than once...however, there is a long way from that statement to your...ship him and out and play inferior players over him. And yes Montoya and Cesc are inferior in those positions.

You dont have a reason to be bias? Well either you do have a reason or its a big co-incidence that you stick up for players who arent good enough in their positions (Alba, Cesc, Pedro previously, Montoya, some may argue Pique) yet happen to be from La Masia. And on the flip side, you have had a tendency to dismiss players who have been around for a while and arent what they used to be (even though they still may be good enough to some).

I normally go out of my way to not accuse you of this (La Masia thing), because its actually unfair and I dont know this to be the case at all and sense its really not true....however, accusing me of bias is strange, because I dont care at all where the players are from or anything non football related...all I care about is the players who

A. Care and show effort, play with pride
B. Are good enough to play for us
C. Fit what I think we should be/are trying to do

For me, some of those guys I named which I think you overly defend dont play with 1 or 2 of those things. Meanwhile players you are overly critical of do show all these things.

So, thats strange to me.
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Post by futbol Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:43 am

Writing walls of texts when arguing with free but not for me. My feelings. Sad

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Post by free_cat Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Just to be clear: we don't lose possession, we just have less of it than with Xavi on the pitch.

No we didn't, we had the same posession pre and post Xavi vs. la Real as we do in most of our games with or without Xavi.

The Franchise wrote:Data? When did you start relying on stats? You need stats for what you can see with your own eyes?

Posession is a statistic: the time you have the ball. And in this last game it was the same. We didn't even lose control, we had the same dominance with or without Xavi. They just happened to take advantadge of one chance after he went out while they didn't when he was playing.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:57 pm

free_cat wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Just to be clear: we don't lose possession, we just have less of it than with Xavi on the pitch.

No we didn't, we had the same posession pre and post Xavi vs. la Real as we do in most of our games with or without Xavi.
Idk why this is even controversial. Xavi slows down the play, retains the ball better and is less likely to go for the Hollywood pass than Cesc, Sergi or Song. That leads to better possession. If some website tracked possession on a per minute basis I'm sure this would be supported by the data.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:41 pm

Fußball wrote:Writing walls of texts when arguing with free but not for me. My feelings. Sad

Its a strange thing, I am finding myself agreeing with you a little more these days.
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Post by Donuts Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:16 pm

Donuts wrote:The problem really relies on Iniesta and Cesc, you cannot have both..

double pivot could work, in all the wrong ways.

the most logical thing we could do is.. and even then it still looks really wrong in every way possible.

--------------Xavi---------------Buscuit
Messi-------------------Cesc--------------------Iniesta
-----------------------Neymar

after putting more thought into it, one formation I would like to see implemented or atleast tried against a pointless game is the diamond one..
---------------------------GK
----------------Pique---------------Bartra
-------------------------Buscuit
Alves-------------Xavi------------Iniesta-----------Alba
--------------------------Cesc
------------------Messi-----------Neymar

the problem i have with this is the obvious width and defensive liabilities, but it does allow all our main stars to play together.. which again would not seem worth it if you ask me.
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Post by futbol Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:07 pm

That's our usual starting lineup with Messi placed on the wing and Fabregas false 9. Laughing

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Post by Donuts Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:12 pm

hardly, I'm talking about keeping the front two not so wide,
when Messi played on the wing against Madrid he was practically babysitting Marcelo the whole game sometimes he cut in but didn't sit in the middle the whole game.
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Post by futbol Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:34 pm

Players move where they find spaces. Drawing a lineup where Messi is closer to the touchline or further away doesn't really change too much as players aren't strictly static like a lineup board. The lineup you drew doesn't really change anything as the players are already rotating like that anyway in many situations when necessary.

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Post by free_cat Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:46 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
free_cat wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Just to be clear: we don't lose possession, we just have less of it than with Xavi on the pitch.

No we didn't, we had the same posession pre and post Xavi vs. la Real as we do in most of our games with or without Xavi.
Idk why this is even controversial. Xavi slows down the play, retains the ball better and is less likely to go for the Hollywood pass than Cesc, Sergi or Song. That leads to better possession. If some website tracked possession on a per minute basis I'm sure this would be supported by the data.

It's controversial because it's false. In the TV they give posession data and it didn't change much throughout the whole game.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:52 pm

President of Dinamo Zagreb: "FC Barcelona's negotiators are coming tomorrow for Alen Halilovic and I'm afraid we're hopeless."

Looks like we are going after a 17 year old AM, transfer fee in the 5m-ish amounts.
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Post by Donuts Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:38 pm

Althought not extremely impressive the only things i know about him is that he was the youngest player to debut for Croatia, and youngest goal scorer for the league.
also second youngest player to debut in champions league history.

seems like Barca is also using the football manager scouting system to find this kid..
probably better then our current scouts tbh.
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Post by free_cat Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:18 am


The Franchise wrote:
Also why play him in a double pivot? Surely a double pivot works best with the configuration of a holding player, a creator and a box to box.

That's a prejudice. There's no scientific law that a different composition in a dobule pivot can work better.



The Franchise wrote:
And its the same with Dani Alves. Nowhere did I say him, nor Xavi are the same players as say 4 years ago. In fact I have said both are not more than once...however, there is a long way from that statement to your...ship him and out and play inferior players over him. And yes Montoya and Cesc are inferior in those positions.

I never said Alves should be shipped and Montoya played. I only said Montoya is an ok backup (better than being talked).
While on Xavi, I find it hard to agree that Cesc is an inferior player right now, outplaying Xavi in almost everything.

The Franchise wrote:
You dont have a reason to be bias? Well either you do have a reason or its a big co-incidence that you stick up for players who arent good enough in their positions (Alba, Cesc, Pedro previously, Montoya, some may argue Pique) yet happen to be from La Masia. And on the flip side, you have had a tendency to dismiss players who have been around for a while and arent what they used to be (even though they still may be good enough to some).

I indeed have a la Masia bias, I never denied that. But I meant in Xavi's specifical situation... as he happens to be a la Masia player and one of my favourite players of all time.

Alba, I'm not a defender of him, I always said he is not a great defender and him and Alves shouldn't play together. I used to dislike Cesc but he has slowly won me over especially after xavi decline, and I think it is obvious now that Pedro defence was on spot.

I dismiss players that are not what they used to be when there are better options. Alves is not on his previous level, but it's hard to find a better player than him. While Xavi isn't what he used to be, but I think there are better available CM. Oh, and Alves is 3 years younger... big difference.



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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:50 pm

OK, but could you tell me how its going to work if not in that fairly standard configuration. Because I dont get it.

Playing Kroos deep in the double pivot, he going to get forward but struggle to get back because he, like Cesc, is quite slow footed. He isnt a great defensive player either...so basically defensively, we arent any better. So again, you tell me what he brings to the table in a double pivot.


You have said many times we should cash in on Dani Alves for X amount of money. You also never named a replacement at rightback.

I disagree about Xavi - Cesc so lets leave that there.

Your not a fan of Alba, but your not vocal at all about replacing him. Yeah, you say he shouldnt start with Dani Alves (which we all agree) but your solution is benching the better player, Alves.

No, your Pedro defence was not proven right. Because most people were talking about the current situation...not what Pedro was going to do (because thats harder to guess). At the time, Pedro was playing terrible, Alexis playing better, yet guess who you still wanted dropped.

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Post by free_cat Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:09 pm

The Franchise wrote:OK, but could you tell me how its going to work if not in that fairly standard configuration. Because I dont get it.

Playing Kroos deep in the double pivot, he going to get forward but struggle to get back because he, like Cesc, is quite slow footed. He isnt a great defensive player either...so basically defensively, we arent any better. So again, you tell me what he brings to the table in a double pivot.


You have said many times we should cash in on Dani Alves for X amount of money. You also never named a replacement at rightback.

I disagree about Xavi - Cesc so lets leave that there.

Your not a fan of Alba, but your not vocal at all about replacing him. Yeah, you say he shouldnt start with Dani Alves (which we all agree) but your solution is benching the better player, Alves.

No, your Pedro defence was not proven right. Because most people were talking about the current situation...not what Pedro was going to do (because thats harder to guess). At the time, Pedro was playing terrible, Alexis playing better, yet guess who you still wanted dropped.


With a dominant midfield you don't need players that are that mobile, and Kroos might be able to provide that. Anyway, Kroos is just one option, you focus too much with him. The baseline point is that we would probably be better starting someone of Gundogan (if he is not crippled), Kroos, Cesc or Koke over Xavi.

I toy with the idea of selling Alves, but I never said we should surely sell him. It could be smart business to sell him and get someone younger and better if there's the chance, but as you say, it's hard to find someone better.

I don't thin I've ever said Alba should start and Alves be dropped generally, I actually said the opposite just before the City match.

I think I was proven right about Pedro because I always admited he was playing badly, but said he could regain his form, while Alexis never has showed Pedro's best level consistently.
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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:20 pm

How can we be dominant if we cant pressure to win the ball back?

Kroos cant do that. And if your trying to sell to me we will keep the ball even better with him vs Xavi im at a loss for words.

I already replied my feelings about the other players, again, Cesc you know, maybe Gundogan but he been out so long its a risk and im not totally sold on Koke but im open to the idea. But we cant have Iniesta, Cesc, new guy and Xavi all trying to play 2 positions. Selling Xavi is not an option I agree with, especially not for those players. That wont improve us.

I have heard you say before about Alba starting and Dani Alves not, but ok.

Lets not go back to Alexis, Pedro again...right now as far as I can see, both players are playing at a good level this season and give different things.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:44 pm

So even around here Koke is overrated this much, better off starting Koke over Xavi? oh yes please, do that Laughing
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Post by free_cat Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:50 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:So even around here Koke is overrated this much, better off starting Koke over Xavi? oh yes please, do that Laughing

Koke is one for the future, not really starting material. If we brought Koke Cesc would be the starter, Roberto shipped out and Koke a rotation player. He is 21, he is already very good but can still improve a lot.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:52 am

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9183193/Jan-Vertonghen-hints-at-exit-if-Tottenham-fail-to-qualify-for-Champions-League

Vertonghen: if we don't make CL I have to rethink my future
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Post by The Franchise Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:11 am

Still wont sign him.

They will baulk at the 20+ asking price. Didnt sign him when we had the chance, what exactly has changed? Its not as if they have any idea how he is doing Laughing
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