'The Messiah' - Lionel Messi V.2

Yeah probably but I can see it was that kind of a conversation going by their expressions

messixaviesta wrote:Three key skills in football :-

Dribbling
Passing
Finishing

Messi scores a near perfect 10 in all three of them.

Which other players can you think of that you have ever seen playing to whom you would give as high a score on all three aspects?

I dont really agree. I think he is a 10 in dribbling without a shadow of a doubt.
I dont think he is a 10 in passing. If you accept Xavi as the gold standard for passing(kind of stating the obvious) and assign him a 10, then Messi is a fair distance behind. I would assign Messi an 8.5 at passing. I think his one touch passing is not elite. His passes are a bit one dimensional and he passes a bit too much to the left for my liking( even when there are better options on the right). Having said that, at the diagonal over the top pass, Messi is as good as anyone.

Finishing, I would again assign Messi an 8.5. At his peak in 2011, 2012 he was as good as any to have played the game. All he needed was one chance. His finishing has noticeably declined since then. He misses a lot of chances these days;which he would have put away with ease back then.

I kind of get what you are saying though, that nobody has combined the 3 attributes and almost perfected all of them. I can think of Pele maybe. Not as good a dribbler as Messi but certainly elite. Poorer passer than Messi but definitely a better finisher. Maybe Cruyff. Not as good a dribbler or finisher but a better passer than Messi. Those are the only two I can think of besides Messi.

When it comes to dribbling he's the best ever without a shadow of doubt in my opinion. Never seen anyone like him. Only R9 comes close. Messi's close control at pace is inhuman. If he is a 10 then everyone else is at best a 9.
Finishing near 10 between 2010 and 2013 and around 9 at the moment. He's deteriorated a bit in that aspect as he's not as ruthless as he was when he played F9 but he gained in other areas such as passing as at the moment his passing is ludicrous. On par with the best in the world. Xavi was a better passer in his prime be it long or short and on par with the best ever. Today Messi is up there with the best and there are only a few on his level. Only Kroos and Modric can make a claim to be better but that comes to preference.

All in all, Messi soo dominant it's literally unfair, like cheating . Only comparasion I can think of is Michael Jordan

He's carrying a slight injury and Enrique doesnt want to risk him in the next game against Alaves.

Alcacer's debut might come sooner than expected.

enrique has played with two strikers in the past when messi was injured.

suarez and paco upfront??
neymar has yet to return to barca or even train with barca doubt enrique will start him

so arda paco and suarez to start sounds likely.

Valkyrja wrote:When it comes to dribbling he's the best ever without a shadow of doubt in my opinion. Never seen anyone like him. Only R9 comes close. Messi's close control at pace is inhuman. If he is a 10 then everyone else is at best a 9.
Finishing near 10 between 2010 and 2013 and around 9 at the moment. He's deteriorated a bit in that aspect as he's not as ruthless as he was when he played F9 but he gained in other areas such as passing as at the moment his passing is ludicrous. On par with the best in the world. Xavi was a better passer in his prime be it long or short and on par with the best ever. Today Messi is up there with the best and there are only a few on his level. Only Kroos and Modric can make a claim to be better but that comes to preference.

All in all, Messi soo dominant it's literally unfair, like cheating . Only comparasion I can think of is Michael Jordan

Kroos and Modric better than Messi. Nowhere close. Kroos just passes from flank to flank. He is not a great passer. Neither is Modric.

Kroos passes flank to flank? Xavi was king of side passing, yet he's 10?

Contrary to what you may think, Messi is not the best at everything and he is not a better passer than Xavi.
Xavi is a 10 in passing. He mastered each and every type of pass and thats what makes him the best. There have been elite specialist passers who excelled at one or other type of pass. Xavi was a 10 at all types of passes.
I rate Laudrup ahead of Xavi for the pure genius and invention of his passes but overall Xavi is the undisputed king of passing.

alexjanosik wrote:Contrary to what you may think, Messi is not the best at everything and he is not a better passer than Xavi.
Xavi is a 10 in passing. He mastered each and every type of pass and thats what makes him the best. There have been elite specialist passers who excelled at one or other type of pass. Xavi was a 10 at all types of passes.
I rate Laudrup ahead of Xavi for the pure genius and invention of his passes but overall Xavi is the undisputed king of passing.

Messi and Xavi are different kind of players (Xavi more sideways passing & managing the tempo of the game whilst Messi more offensive/penetrating passes) but with certainty it's not a big gap between them in terms of passing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcFX4DYoG04

alexjanosik wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Three key skills in football :-

Dribbling
Passing
Finishing

Messi scores a near perfect 10 in all three of them.

Which other players can you think of that you have ever seen playing to whom you would give as high a score on all three aspects?

I dont really agree. I think he is a 10 in dribbling without a shadow of a doubt.
I dont think he is a 10 in passing. If you accept Xavi as the gold standard for passing(kind of stating the obvious) and assign him a 10, then Messi is a fair distance behind. I would assign Messi an 8.5 at passing. I think his one touch passing is not elite. His passes are a bit one dimensional and he passes a bit too much to the left for my liking( even when there are better options on the right). Having said that, at the diagonal over the top pass, Messi is as good as anyone.

Finishing, I would again assign Messi an 8.5. At his peak in 2011, 2012 he was as good as any to have played the game. All he needed was one chance. His finishing has noticeably declined since then. He misses a lot of chances these days;which he would have put away with ease back then.

I kind of get what you are saying though, that nobody has combined the 3 attributes and almost perfected all of them. I can think of Pele maybe. Not as good a dribbler as Messi but certainly elite. Poorer passer than Messi but definitely a better finisher. Maybe Cruyff. Not as good a dribbler or finisher but a better passer than Messi. Those are the only two I can think of besides Messi.

alex, an excellent reply.

If we consider Xavi as the 10 then the whole points scheme changes. In that case my question to you is out of all players currently playing at the highest level in Europe does anyone even get a 9?

I really like your point about Messi not passing enough to the right. Have noticed it so often but I couldn't quite put a finger to it until now.

On finishing again I don't disagree with you but this is more about overall class than current form. From that point of view I suppose Messi will be 9+.

Indeed the key question was about combining the attributes. Pele and Cruyff are nice mentions.

alexjanosik wrote:Contrary to what you may think, Messi is not the best at everything and he is not a better passer than Xavi.
Xavi is a 10 in passing. He mastered each and every type of pass and thats what makes him the best. There have been elite specialist passers who excelled at one or other type of pass. Xavi was a 10 at all types of passes.
I rate Laudrup ahead of Xavi for the pure genius and invention of his passes but overall Xavi is the undisputed king of passing.

There's no rule against being the best at everything, if that was your "logic". Xavi is no shape or form as good passer as Messi is, it's rather obvious. All the masia players can side pass the ball to kingdom come, the true quality however comes through looking the quality of the passes. Messi has far more and more consistently given quality passes, he has better weight on passing and can control backspin and topspin like no-one else.

Alex underating Messi for the sake of it. I guess he'll now claim Suarez is a better passer (which tbh, Suarez has been great and bettert han I expected with his passing, top assister in La Liga last season)

I wouldn't be suprised if Alex claimed Suarez has a better touch than Messi at this point

Xavi had genius passes.But difference is Messi does it almost every game. We can see at least one or two magic passes each game. Xavi did it but not every game. His season highlights at passing is equal 2 months higlights for Messi. He would prefer safe play filling 99% pass accuracy mark each game. This 99% accuracy brought him fame at passing. Messi goes for the kill and doesnt care about accuracy so sometimes he can look bad at some passes. I consider them equal.I give messi a little edge because his through balls are clearly better. His through ball vs belgium for di maria was insane.Maybe Xavi has technique to do it but he is not brave enough to show it

Messi is recovering according to plan and will not require a surgery [beIN Sports - @Benayadachraf] #fcblive

thank the gods, he could have missed half of the season ffs

He had better do the surgery now. Once and for all imo. Otherwise, this nagging injuries will keep coming back

If he's fine then there's no need to do surgery in the middle of the fkin season.

He can do the surgery when the season is settled, if the situation is stable right now.

i read his injury wasn't his groin (the injury prior to argentina games)

probably why surgery isn't required.

Pep:

"Messi goes through the game walking, x-raying each moment. Leo senses when he's alone and when he notices that the opposition is watching him he'll find some space and distance himself.

Messi the player who runs the least in the Spanish League. Then by the time the ball arrives at his feet, he has completed his x-ray of time and space, knows where everybody is and then...bang!"

[Extracts from Marti Pearnau's book "The Evolution"]

Coachessi

At the end of this year the score is likely to become five Ballons Dor each.

Messi is capable of doing so many things in the game so brilliantly and so consistently. Not less than 90% of Cristiano's game is all about goal scoring. It still baffles me a little how the two have reached an equal footing in the eyes of so many fans and pundits of the game. It's now ten years of domination by these two. Even Ronaldo and Zidane did not dominate for this long.

I hope he stalls his contract talks till this board actually invests in proper WC players.

The feels

Had to punch a wall to feel manly again

Cristiano would have won four out of the last five Ballons Dor. Those of us who see Messi play day in day out would be rubbing their eyes in disbelief asking how is this even possible.

BTW has Maradona become jealous of Messi? Earlier he mostly had words of praise and encouragement for him but just look at the kind of things he has been saying about Messi in the last few months.

http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2017/11/18/5a100617468aeb633c8b4642.html

As of now, in 45 days Messi can negotiate with other clubs

Has any player ever broke both goals and assists records? This man can do two jobs at record breaking level