Video: Lionel Messi... with Argentina!

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Post by bazinga Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:20 pm

@billionmillion wrote:So Vapotrini your lovely Maradona just proved my point. This is a stat from him:
"I spoke to him [Messi] during the week and I told him to remain calm. Before the 1986 World Cup I was a disaster and I was criticised by 80 per cent of the journalists [in Argentina]. Later, there wasn’t one who didn’t ask me for a story, so I can understand what’s going on."

There's no point talking sense to vapotrini when it comes to Maradona.

I read through all the posts here and frankly, such man love is just abnormal.

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Post by Beautiful Football Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:30 pm

LOL argentina 1986 team was 10 times better than 2010.

Here is the 1986 squad:

18 Nery Pumpido
15 Luis Islas
22 Hector Zelada
09 Jose Cuciuffo
08 Nestor Clausen
19 Oscar Ruggeri
06 Daniel Passarella
05 Jose Brown
16 Julio Olarticoechea
13 Oscar Garre
21 Marcelo Trobbiani
20 Carlos Tapia
07 Jorge Burruchaga
04 Claudio Borghi
03 Ricardo Bochini
14 Ricardo Giusti
02 Sergio Batista
12 Hector Enrique
10 Diego Maradona
17 Pedro Pasculli
01 Sergio Almiron
11 Jorge Valdano

This Was Starting Xi

02 Sergio Batista=J. Mascherano
05 Jose Brown>>>>M. Demichelis
07 Jorge Burruchaga>>>M. Rodríguez
08 Enrique<Di Maria
10 Diego Maradona?L.Messi
11 Jorge Valdano>G. Higuaín
# Jose Cuciuffo<W. Samuel
14 Ricardo Giusti>J. Gutiérrezd
17 Julio Olarticoechea=G. Heinze
19 Oscar Ruggeri>>>>>>>>>>any defender
18 Nery Pumpid>>>>S. Romero

Now tell me either individually or as a team ,which team was better..

i can not believe Vapotrini you watched 1986 world cup!!!


Last edited by Beautiful Football on Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Beautiful Football Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:38 pm

Argentina had one of the best defense in 1986 world cup and their history..

what was their defense in 2010...lol..

not to mention they worked very hard 3 months together before 1986 world cup just to improve team chemistry... what did 2010 team? yeah practice with best manager in the history diego maradona...

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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:33 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@Vapotrini wrote:

In my mind and probably yours yes, but in the world's... I think only this year it was truly sealed.

100% agreed.

And as you mention Zidane and his position it brings up a good point. And it's one in Messi's favour believe it or not. Zidane & Diego were play makers, towards the latter parts of their careers they didn't have or need to rely on speed. Distribution was enough. That was their game. Hence their shelf life was far, far greater than that of an attacker. This is something that Messi needs to work on now if he wants to prolong his career. He's getting ridiculously good at it but he needs to push the envelope even further to really cement his legacy. Ironically, I'll bet anything that it'll be in the twilight of his career when he's the true play maker that he'll be the most successful for his country.

As far as I remember the Messi vs. C.Ronaldo debate was settled in the eyes of the world after the 4-1 against Arsenal.

Very interesting thoughts about what Messi's future can be like.

Even when messi is alot better, its still a bit hard to compare them. You have a 6' 1 athletic freak with great technique for his size, fantasic at heading, can fit in many systems, godlike speed and stamina, amazing strength for a winger (84kg! you gotta admit, thats pretty insane).
Then you have messi, who is a ridiculous dribble, great acceleration off the mark, good passer and good vision..

Messi is the best, but I think they are quite different IMHO. If by some crazy occurance they manage to play together, they would be the best attacking duo on earth, if they set aside their differences.
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Post by messixaviesta Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:17 pm

@Beautiful Football wrote:
This Was Starting Xi

02 Sergio Batista=J. Mascherano
05 Jose Brown>>>>M. Demichelis
07 Jorge Burruchaga>>>M. Rodríguez
08 Enrique<Di Maria
10 Diego Maradona?L.Messi
11 Jorge Valdano>G. Higuaín
# Jose Cuciuffo<W. Samuel
14 Ricardo Giusti>J. Gutiérrezd
17 Julio Olarticoechea=G. Heinze
19 Oscar Ruggeri>>>>>>>>>>any defender
18 Nery Pumpid>>>>S. Romero


Interesting analysis. Since we say the 1986 team was very weak it really was a great idea to list down that team and actually see how weak it was. Actually I think I can guess one reason why people called that team weak. Going by common parlance people tend to call a team that is not that strong from an attacking point of view weak even if it has an excellent defense. For example people called Inter Milan 2010 weak compared to Barcelona but that team had an excellent defense. As you say the WC 1986 team of Argentina did have a pretty solid defense which must have helped them in spite of all of Maradona's heroics getting all the spotlight. I also remember Jorge Valdano was a really good striker and Raul considered him his idol while growing up. In fact I have heard a few EPL pundits say that the 1986 team of Argentina was actually better than their 2010 team. One more point to add is that unless I am very much mistaken our best defender Walter Samuel wasn't even available for the match vs. Germany and Nicolas Burdisso played instead. The one player from WC 2010 that you haven't listed is Nicolas Otamendi who was played as a disastrous makeshift right back.

Having said that I must mention something here. You might be aware that in those days the all star team that was chosen at the end of the world cup consisted of 11 players. Guess how many players were chosen from champions Argentina? The answer is only one. Shocked

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Post by FennecFox7 Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:54 pm

I actually do not say messi played bad. In a couple games he didn't do very great (credits to colombia, great defensive performance), but by no means is he a flop, that is just very unfair.
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:37 pm

Giggity5313 wrote: but by no means is he a flop, that is just very unfair.

Very true. Messi isn't a flop by any means for Argentina. He just isn't at the level expected of him as the best player in the world, an all time great and Maradona's heir. The yardstick by which he is being judged is very different from what is used for other players.

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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:38 am

@messixaviesta wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote: but by no means is he a flop, that is just very unfair.

Very true. Messi isn't a flop by any means for Argentina. He just isn't at the level expected of him as the best player in the world, an all time great and Maradona's heir. The yardstick by which he is being judged is very different from what is used for other players.
He isn't maradona's heir imo, he's messi and he has his own qualities. I think he should play on the RW and let pastore have the playmaking burden
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Post by messixaviesta Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:21 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
He isn't maradona's heir imo, he's messi and he has his own qualities. I think he should play on the RW and let pastore have the playmaking burden

I agree that comparing him to Maradona is putting undue and unneeded pressure on him. As for your suggestion it's a possibility but I am not sure. I need to watch and evaluate Pastore better before making a firm comment on this.

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Post by the xcx Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:44 am

Question for some argentians or barca fans.
How Argentina/Argentinians treat Messi, I mean by personal level, do they praise him for honoring Argentina by being world best, constantly compared to Maradona and other legendery players, or they dislike him for some reason?
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Post by messixaviesta Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:27 am

@The xcx wrote:Question for some argentians or barca fans.
How Argentina/Argentinians treat Messi, I mean by personal level, do they praise him for honoring Argentina by being world best, constantly compared to Maradona and other legendery players, or they dislike him for some reason?

The opinion is divided. However in general there is a feeling that after getting all those awards and success he has not been able to do that much for his national team. I don't like it that people forget easily that he won two major titles at youth level - World Youth Championship 2005 and Olympics 2008. However at senior level things haven't gone well and have just become worse. So I can understand the frustration to an extent. Of course the more sensible ones would understand that Messi has to operate under too many limitations. Even then if you are super talented then people expect the world of you and criticize the slightest failing of yours. It's something that just can't be helped.

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Post by Albiceleste Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:56 pm

People say Messi can only play in Barcelona system with Xavi and Iniesta but what about before Pep era? and when he won the olympics and the youth wc? Xavi and Iniesta weren't there and he shined.

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