What we are missing for Champions League Glory.......

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Post by Juvellinapoli Sat 27 Jul 2013, 20:28

Juventus had a very credible run to the Champions League Q-Finals, with the exception of the boot-stomping at the hands of the eventual (deserved) champions, Bayern Monaco. The team as I see it, is still very unbalanced for a number of reasons;

1) The need for LWB is never been more-apparent

2) Why strengthen a position which has been our pillars of strength for the previous 2 seasons, with all due respect to Ogbonna

3) We have no destroyer, with the exception of Vidal; remember the 2nd leg v Bayern, they destroyed Juve in midfield

4) With all due respect to Pirlo, Juve really need a vice to rotate with Andrea

With that being said, the acquisitions of Llorente and Tevez were nothing short of a masterstroke from Marotta and Paratici. I hope to see Pogba get tons of time on the field, a chance for him to showcase his stuff. The defense should once again, be nearly impenetrable, and the solid 1-2 punch of Gigi and Storaro should cause healthy competition in net. \

Thoughts??

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Post by Juveman17 Sat 27 Jul 2013, 20:41

1) Agree

2) Ogbonna will naturally replace Barzagli in our 3 man back line and will help cover a spot where Caceres looked weak last season.

3) We really don't we have Marrone, Rossi and Pogba as backup. Besides Vidal is capable of starting every game so that isn't really a big problem.

4) Agree
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Post by djfawnz Sat 27 Jul 2013, 21:18

they need a lwb so asamoah plays back to CM, we have Pogba for destroyer role, we need a vice pirlo and i believe we need another star attacking player
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Post by DeviAngel Sat 27 Jul 2013, 21:25

Asa and Pgoba can play as destroyers plus , lets not forget Sakor who is touted as the next Davids, Marchisio can fill that boot good to.

As for Pirlo's rotation I think this season Marrone will see more playing time even tohu I want Bouy to be the one who will rotate with Pirlo or Gabriel ( if we don't buy that is )

Bayern destroyed us on experience nothing else I bet that we could have won agaisnt anyone just not BM. I mean everything was against us from the start of the game goal in 24 seconds, playing without Vuci ( our biggest mistake) .... we'll that was about it but BM deserved it.

Ogbonna was needed as we don't have topnotch quality CB to rotate with
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Post by Juvellinapoli Sun 28 Jul 2013, 00:26

DeviAngel wrote:Asa and Pgoba can play as destroyers plus , lets not forget Sakor who is touted as the next Davids, Marchisio can fill that boot good to.

As for Pirlo's rotation I think this season Marrone will see more playing time even tohu I want Bouy to be the one who will rotate with Pirlo or Gabriel ( if we don't buy that is )

Bayern destroyed us on experience nothing else I bet that we could have won agaisnt anyone just not BM. I mean everything was against us from the start of the game goal in 24 seconds, playing without Vuci ( our biggest mistake) .... we'll that was about it but BM deserved it.

Ogbonna was needed as we don't have topnotch quality CB to rotate with


I will respectfully disagree; Pogba is a regista, but lacks experience in big games, Schweinsteiger annihilated him. Kwadwo has played the last season as LWB, and should not be switched between positions; he was Juventus' 2nd best player behind Vidal before he left for AFCON.

With all due respect, Marrone has played a luxury CB, and is nowhere near what Pirlo was and is. Juventus missed their chance to sign Verratti from Pescara, and have seen his value triple. Currently, Juve should not experiment with unproven youth (except Pogba); the player they need, in my opinion is Miralem Pjanic from Roma.

Again, I will have to respectfully disagree; I have been a Juventino since I was 10, and cannot recall a time when they were torn apart at the seams (midfield), literally lambs to the slaughter, and Bayern were the butchers. The goal from Alaba in the first minute would not have mattered, Juve were getting battered either way.

Ogbonna was needed, but could have waited after a proper LWB and a vice-Pirlo were brought in

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Post by DeviAngel Sun 28 Jul 2013, 00:33

Juvellinapoli wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:Asa and Pgoba can play as destroyers plus , lets not forget Sakor who is touted as the next Davids, Marchisio can fill that boot good to.

As for Pirlo's rotation I think this season Marrone will see more playing time even tohu I want Bouy to be the one who will rotate with Pirlo or Gabriel ( if we don't buy that is )

Bayern destroyed us on experience nothing else I bet that we could have won agaisnt anyone just not BM. I mean everything was against us from the start of the game goal in 24 seconds, playing without Vuci ( our biggest mistake) .... we'll that was about it but BM deserved it.

Ogbonna was needed as we don't have topnotch quality CB to rotate with


I will respectfully disagree; Pogba is a regista, but lacks experience in big games, Schweinsteiger annihilated him. Kwadwo has played the last season as LWB, and should not be switched between positions; he was Juventus' 2nd best player behind Vidal before he left for AFCON.

With all due respect, Marrone has played a luxury CB, and is nowhere near what Pirlo was and is. Juventus missed their chance to sign Verratti from Pescara, and have seen his value triple. Currently, Juve should not experiment with unproven youth (except Pogba); the player they need, in my opinion is Miralem Pjanic from Roma.

Again, I will have to respectfully disagree; I have been a Juventino since I was 10, and cannot recall a time when they were torn apart at the seams (midfield), literally lambs to the slaughter, and Bayern were the butchers. The goal from Alaba in the first minute would not have mattered, Juve were getting battered either way.

Ogbonna was needed, but could have waited after a proper LWB and a vice-Pirlo were brought in

And I was since 3-4 yrs but its thats not the case, I mentioned Marrone because I have a feeling that will happen not that I approve it or want that to happen, sadly that will happen.

Pogba is not a regista he is another Yaya Toure nothing else he can't control the game and the tempo of the game even his passes are not same as Pirlo he is same as Yaya something similar to Vidal.

Bayern is just more experience I mean was we had tons of players woh never played UCL game and players who've played loong ago it was not the same. EVerything went in the right direction for BM that's it.

as for DM : Asamoah can play one and is great one, We have Marchisio who can play that DM role and has been kind of playing it these few seasons even his last season he was more liek the 'dirty' player. Than we have Sakor for who I am sure will be used if he continues to impress and play like Davids.

I tihnk Conte knows the best about Ogbonna he sees something in the Cb's that we don't..
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Post by juventus101 Sun 28 Jul 2013, 01:13

If Tevez and Llorente are (hopefully) both big hits then I think all we need is a proper LM. But even that is not all that urgent as Asamoah has done very well there, and we still have Isla, Caceres, and Pepe who can also all play there. Some people will say a vice Pirlo but really there's no one like Pirlo out there that would be realistically affordable so I think we should just give Pogba a chance there, and it might change the way we play a bit but well need to learn to adapt.
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Post by Juvellinapoli Sun 28 Jul 2013, 01:53

Pogba is not a DM, he is more of a hybrid of a box-to-box midfielder and a regista; your comparison to Yaya Toure is brilliant, very similar playing styles!! Asamoah was switched to LWB, would only hamper his development to move him back to DM, and Marchisio is a box-to-box midfielder.

I am not saying Marrone is a bad player, just that he should only play in Coppa Italia games to  gain experience, and the occasional Serie A game as rotation for Marchisio. Sakor should be plying his trade in the Lega Pro/lower-level Serie B squad; he will not get anywhere the bench, much less the starting xi.

I am not saying Ogbonna wasnt needed, just that Juve have more pressing uses with their squad

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Post by elm_baraja_shaman Sun 28 Jul 2013, 02:08

again I will point out as a Ghanaian who has watched Asamoah since his days in the local Ghanaian league, he is an Attacking midfielder naturally, I laugh when I read people calling him a DM, at Udinese he was used as a CM but in Ghana at the world cup, he was deployed on the left side in a 4-2-3-1 formation behind Asamoah Gyan our lone striker....

being deployed on the LWB formation in Conte's 3-5-2 works perfectly for Asamoah cos he is fast and is a very good dribbler, his only short falls are his finishing from close range and his crossing...... arguably Ghana's best player right now...
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Post by DeviAngel Sun 28 Jul 2013, 04:30

Juvellinapoli wrote:Pogba is not a DM, he is more of a hybrid of a box-to-box midfielder and a regista; your comparison to Yaya Toure is brilliant, very similar playing styles!! Asamoah was switched to LWB, would only hamper his development to move him back to DM, and Marchisio is a box-to-box midfielder.

I am not saying Marrone is a bad player, just that he should only play in Coppa Italia games to  gain experience, and the occasional Serie A game as rotation for Marchisio. Sakor should be plying his trade in the Lega Pro/lower-level Serie B squad; he will not get anywhere the bench, much less the starting xi.

I am not saying Ogbonna wasnt needed, just that Juve have more pressing uses with their squad

now you see what I wanted to say just small correction I never said Marchisio is DM I said he play there and fill those boots, Asa is #10 for Ghana but he can be perfect DM Smile.

I wish we give sakor a chance Sad

Btw I often go to Skopje and hang out with other members from GL, не сме баш многу неколку сме Smile
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Post by Luca Sun 28 Jul 2013, 06:14

I really don't think it's a LM keeping Juventus away from the CL final to be honest. Depth everywhere is critical though, I mean quality depth players. When you can bring a player who can actually change the game off the bench it's a difference maker in knockout ties. I mean if you look at Juventus this season, look at the Bayern games- who were the impact players? Still looking? There wasn't any.

But now I see a stronger team. Ogbonna is a huge signing, gives Juventus stronger support in the back. Asamoah, another year and if he can show the promise he did in the first half of last season then there is no problems on the left side. The attack, well it speaks for itself right now- it's quality compared to last season in every way you look at it. And to be honest, all of Juventus' strikers last season played fairly well in the Champions League up until the Bayern games, where they were down a goal early and just could not do anything to force their way back into the game, they had nothing up front and that's now changed. Vucinic moved to 'third' striker, this is good, he can do something in this role- should he accept it- I fear his ego is too big but if he accepts it then I think it will be beneficial in a tournament like this.

It all depends on the draw though. If you can win your group and avoid those elite teams (there's only a few of them I have in mind), for even a round it makes all the difference. Juventus drew Celtic and were a class act, then drew Bayern and went to shit. That's just how the tournament is, complete 180s in competition. Yes, eventually you will have to play the best teams but I would rather it in the semi final or the final than the quarter final or the group.

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Post by M99 Sun 28 Jul 2013, 10:34

How much do you guys have left in your budget? While Asamoah had a superb first half in 2012-13 as LWB, you drastically need one to complete the starting line up. Get rid of deadwood. Quagriallera to Norwich for 10m+, and if you find a club willing to pay for Matri, Ziegler, Motta and other unwanted players, you can easily fund a move for Kolarov or Coentrao. My personal opinion is Marrota should go for Criscito, he is a great player and has been forgotten from playing in the Russian league, a move to a top flight Italian club would be best for his career and also for Juve too, he is a great player reliable in both offence and defence.

Need for a vice Pirlo is much more important than need for a destroyer. Veratti wants to leave PSG (inb4sports) and well he'd be the most perfect long term heir like Ogbonna is to Barzagli. Even though he is a world class CB, let's not forget Bazagli is 30+, Ogbonna was a great buy. With World Cup coming up he might not be too enthusiastic to move to a team with such a competitive midfield like Juve, he would want to start regularly and play important matches. Luca Cigarini would suit the vice-Pirlo role pretty well. He is not good enough to be his heir, but more than good enough to be his backup. And unlike PSG, Atalanta would not demand a hefty fee or as sports would put it, not let themselves be bullied in the transfer market.

With these two transfers, Juve would pretty much be complete. They would have a squad of

Buffon
Barzagli Bonucci Chiellini
Lichsteiner Vidal Pirlo Marchisio/Pogba Criscito
Tevez Llorente

Storari
Ogbonna Marrone Caceres/Peluso
Isla Asamoah Cigarini Pogba/Marchisio PDC/Peluso
Vucinic/Giovinco Matri/Quags

Looking back Juve need at least one of Matri/Quags to stay to back up for Llorente hmm So that's why they are playing hardball with Norwich. They could do with another CF too.
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Post by DeviAngel Sun 28 Jul 2013, 16:58

M99 wrote:How much do you guys have left in your budget? While Asamoah had a superb first half in 2012-13 as LWB, you drastically need one to complete the starting line up. Get rid of deadwood. Quagriallera to Norwich for 10m+, and if you find a club willing to pay for Matri, Ziegler, Motta and other unwanted players, you can easily fund a move for Kolarov or Coentrao. My personal opinion is Marrota should go for Criscito, he is a great player and has been forgotten from playing in the Russian league, a move to a top flight Italian club would be best for his career and also for Juve too, he is a great player reliable in both offence and defence.

Need for a vice Pirlo is much more important than need for a destroyer. Veratti wants to leave PSG (inb4sports) and well he'd be the most perfect long term heir like Ogbonna is to Barzagli. Even though he is a world class CB, let's not forget Bazagli is 30+, Ogbonna was a great buy. With World Cup coming up he might not be too enthusiastic to move to a team with such a competitive midfield like Juve, he would want to start regularly and play important matches. Luca Cigarini would suit the vice-Pirlo role pretty well. He is not good enough to be his heir, but more than good enough to be his backup. And unlike PSG, Atalanta would not demand a hefty fee or as sports would put it, not let themselves be bullied in the transfer market.

With these two transfers, Juve would pretty much be complete. They would have a squad of

Buffon
Barzagli Bonucci Chiellini
Lichsteiner Vidal Pirlo Marchisio/Pogba Criscito
Tevez Llorente

Storari
Ogbonna Marrone Caceres/Peluso
Isla Asamoah Cigarini Pogba/Marchisio PDC/Peluso
Vucinic/Giovinco Matri/Quags

Looking back Juve need at least one of Matri/Quags to stay to back up for Llorente :hmm:So that's why they are playing hardball with Norwich. They could do with another CF too.

Cito had a little fight with Bonucci last summer and plus he was signed for big money now the Russians ask to much mioney that will empty our budget Kolarov would be the safest and cheapest most quality option out there, as for Vice Pirlo Cigarini is onyl good as Vice I agree, I've red reports that Marotta stayed in Torino and didn't go to the tour just to complete more transfer and that Veratti is his target. Matri is the perfect sub for Llorente
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Post by juventus101 Sun 28 Jul 2013, 18:43

If you look at the team we have right now there's really nothing stopping us from winning the CL. We have class in every position and some good depth. Of course we could be better like getting a vice Pirlo but every team has weaknesses. For example Bayern last season were a runaway train, but their only depth at CB was Van Buyten and only depth at leftback is the unproven Contento. Marrone and Pogba have also both done very well when put in for Pirlo, and Rossi has played as a regosta for Brescia I believe. So we actually do have good depth. Obviously not as good as Bayern or maybe 1 or 2 other teams, but that doesn't mean we cant win the CL. This is still an extremely strong squad.

--Buffon--
--Barzagli-- --Bonucci-- --Chiellini--
--Lichsteiner-- --Vidal-- --Pirlo-- --Marchisio-- --Asamoah--
--Llorente-- --Tevez--

--Storari--
--Caceres-- --Ogbonna-- --Peluso--
--Isla-- --Pogba-- --Rossi/Padoin-- --Marrone-- --Pepe--
--Giovinco/Quags or Matri-- --Vucinic--
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun 28 Jul 2013, 18:48

I agree

I'd feel quite confident of winning games against any team bar maybe 4 or 5 in Serie A with that B team.
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Post by Juvellinapoli Sun 28 Jul 2013, 19:02

Juventus' only depth in my opinion, is between the sticks, and the back 3 (or 5); players like Fausto Rossi, with all due respect to him, should not be anywhere near a Champions League fixture. I am all for giving Mauricio Isla another opportunity, he has had 1 full season to see what Juve and Conte are all about, but Juventus' lack of depth is what hurt them. Marrone should keep his position as a luxury CB, and a Regista (to keep Pirlo fresh for Champions League game) and LWB should be brought in.

Matri should not be involved in any exchange with Napoli, unless it involves Inler in some way; would be better served to use Everton's interest against them, part-exchange for Fellaini. Quagliarella should be used as depth, not sure what all the hate is for, good player. Fabio Coentrao wants out of Real, and Agnelli has a great relationship with Florentino; make a 10m euro offer with an obligation to buy for a further 7-8??
Champions League starting xi
-------------Bonucci-Barzagli-Chiellini------------------
----------------------Vidal----------------------------
------K Asamoah-Marchisio-Pirlo-F Coentrao------------
----------------Tevez-Llorente------------------------

Serie A starting xi
----------------Caceres-Marrone-Ogbonna---------------
-------------------------Fellaini-------------------------
---------Lichtsteiner-Marchisio-Pogba-Mauricio Isla-------
----------------------Vucinic-Quagliarella-----------------

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun 28 Jul 2013, 19:05

I do agree that we should go after Coentrao

Because that would essentially free up Asamoah for the CM position

So in turn we would have more depth,

Having Pogba and Asamoah as back up CM's is more than enough

A vice Pirlo is no easy thing to find. Perhaps we'll end up just developing one of the Appelts or Buoy (Spelling?)

I'm optimistic that we will one day get our hands on Verratti, but it's going to be at least 2 years with him getting the pay rise he wanted and signing a new deal earlier on.

Vucinic - Quags is definitely good enough as depth, Mirko himself has had a great time in the CL individually speaking in the past.
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Post by salmano9 Mon 29 Jul 2013, 00:27

Welcome to the forum boss...
there is no way that the formation in serie a will look like that. Its too weak, espicially with marrone not in his main position. Caceres isnt a good starter but he could do well.
Im happy people are joining and contribuiting to the forum now
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Post by Juvellinapoli Mon 29 Jul 2013, 02:50

salmano9 wrote:Welcome to the forum boss...
there is no way that the formation in serie a will look like that. Its too weak, espicially with marrone not in his main position. Caceres isnt a good starter but he could do well.
Im happy people are joining and contribuiting to the forum now

Thank you, sir!!!, but I am nobody's boss lol. Just a hypothetical formation, it would be unrealistic to switch players; they would not gel, be unable to cope with potentially falling behind, as they may not happen often. I like Caceres, very underrated player; he has calmed on the ball since his first season w Juventus, no longer reckless in the tackles.

Question gentlemen, I am the only who thinks Vucinic, Fernando, and Tevez could be absolutely devastating as a front 3?? Vucinic and Tevez could play as a LW/RWST and cut in, which would drag players with him, thus freeing space for Llorente to do what he does best.........bury chances????

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon 29 Jul 2013, 02:54

I think it would work very well in attack

I reckon we will see it at some point, but defensively it depends on how well Vucinic can help his full back AND have the energy left to attack to the best of his abilities.

Carlos is obviously fine in the stamina and workrate department

Vucinic works extremely hard under Conte, but I don't know if he has the lungs to be tracking wingers back all day long. Not so much in serie A where width comes almost exclusively from wing-backs, but in Europe where plenty of teams have a full-back and a winger on either flank.

Infact, this hurt us against Bayern, they doubled up on our wing-backs, leaving the CB on either side being forced to come out, and then leaving gaps in the defence.
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Post by DeviAngel Mon 29 Jul 2013, 03:04

Juvellinapoli wrote:
salmano9 wrote:Welcome to the forum boss...
there is no way that the formation in serie a will look like that. Its too weak, espicially with marrone not in his main position. Caceres isnt a good starter but he could do well.
Im happy people are joining and contribuiting to the forum now

Thank you, sir!!!, but I am nobody's boss lol. Just a hypothetical formation, it would be unrealistic to switch players; they would not gel, be unable to cope with potentially falling behind, as they may not happen often. I like Caceres, very underrated player; he has calmed on the ball since his first season w Juventus, no longer reckless in the tackles.

Question gentlemen, I am the only who thinks Vucinic, Fernando, and Tevez could be absolutely devastating as a front 3?? Vucinic and Tevez could play as a LW/RWST and cut in, which would drag players with him, thus freeing space for Llorente to do what he does best.........bury chances????

noo I think the same. Great minds think a like we agree on most things lol :bow:
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Post by salmano9 Mon 29 Jul 2013, 05:58

We tried the 3 man attack 2 seasons ago with mirko on the left flank. But it didn't work well. I see that ferna needs a SS to help create chances easier. Gio/vuci-ferna would work.
I cant see tevez and ferna play together. I didn't see anything special in the fail tim cup. But, ofcourse the big boss will do some experiments to see who is best to play together. Tbh I cant imagine we have a top player like tevez x)
I loved his passes and the way he moved back for support in the cup. I'm lookin forward to watch our match vs everton soon Smile
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Post by Juventude Mon 29 Jul 2013, 16:23

We need a top quality LW or LWB that can play better in attack. If we get a good attacking LW, we won't need to sacrifice defense by playing with a a three man attack.
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Post by Cassius Mon 29 Jul 2013, 17:03

Right.. I know this sounds a bit silly but just hear me out..

We have too many workhorses in our team. And apart from an ageing Pirlo who plays from deep anyway we have no other top fantasista or creative type players in the final third of the pitch (Vucinic is way inconsistent and his decision making is usually terrible imo) who can not track back as hard, not pressure as much but will most of the time unlock defences, take multiple players on confidently and finish to some degree.

Maybe im over simplifying it but we need an ibra, bale, ronaldo, messi, iniesta, robben, ribery, rues, silva, mata, goetz, hazard ect type player of top class or topclass potential. The list might not be appealing cause I dont actually mind that we dont have many players like that cause im all for team effort but we do lack spark in and around the box from what I noticed.

So what im trying to say is that i cant help but feel we need someone like that or for one of our players to step up (marchisio if he moves further up the pitch in his career, Tevez, LLorente or even a young prospect) to compete properly for the CL title.

Only if Del Piero was 10 years younger, we'd be contending for the CL final every year Proud
Cassius
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