UEFA Financial Fair Play

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Post by TalkingReckless Wed 05 Dec 2012, 19:12

Only mid table teams and lower league teams from around europe will be effected

There are many ways to find loop holes, like City did with their enormous deal

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Post by VanDeezNuts Wed 05 Dec 2012, 19:19

is FFP in effect?

i mean i remember all the threads leading up to it saying which clubs will be introuble etc. etc. then nothing happened, everyone spent ridiculously and no consequences were cited.

i thought FFP was supposed to be serious? but to be completely honest i tried to read up on it but i just dont understand it so maybe im bashing it without educated reason.

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Post by Blue Barrett Wed 05 Dec 2012, 19:25

vanDEEZ wrote:is FFP in effect?

i mean i remember all the threads leading up to it saying which clubs will be introuble etc. etc. then nothing happened, everyone spent ridiculously and no consequences were cited.

i thought FFP was supposed to be serious? but to be completely honest i tried to read up on it but i just dont understand it so maybe im bashing it without educated reason.
I think it comes into effect next season though I may be wrong.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed 05 Dec 2012, 19:31

Legend wrote:Only mid table teams and lower league teams from around europe will be effected

There are many ways to find loop holes, like City did with their enormous deal

What is the punishments if those teams break the rules? as far as i was aware the punishments were kicked out of EL/CL but what if you are not in the competition to begin with?
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Post by chinomaster182 Wed 05 Dec 2012, 23:10

Its a hard question to answer since we're still some months away and many things can happen, such as the rumored mega deal for PSG.

However we can comfortably say all Premier League clubs are in the clear. United has a mountain of debt, but the FFP rules won't count it all and they have massive revenue so they're ok. Citys owner Mansour has a brother in law that owns Etihad and they gave them an unprecedented humongous deal that borderline infringes FFP, however UEFA allowed it so they're in the clear. Chelsea lowered their wages and slowed spending a little bit, plus theirs the new huge tv deal thats gonna bring in alot of money so apparently they're clear.

Real Madrid very easily clear FFP, enormous revenue at relatively little debt. Barcelona also have huge revenue and little debt, they've slowed down spending and are also easily cleared. Atletico de Madrid are in trouble and have actually already been penalized by FFP so they didn't clear it. Valencia to my knowledge are also in big trouble and have had to put a stop on spending and have already sold all their stars, i don't know if they'll clear FFP but they i'd wager and say yes, they will.

Now the ones that are in big trouble, Serie A teams. Juventus have been carrying big big losses across these past couple of years, even though they have a new stadium it might not be enough to pass FFP, Juve might need to sell a big star like Arturo Vidal and buy no one to pass FFP, otherwise it might come down to UEFAs approval/disapproval. Milan have been carrying big losses for many years now and have had to stop spending by alot, they've also sold their biggest stars, even after all that they might not make it. Inter are in huge problems, they've already sold a ton of their players and brought in cheaper replacements, Sneijder is being pushed out at the moment because he's the highest earner in the team. Inter might not make it, again it will come down to UEFAs decision.

As it stands, PSG are in no way going to pass FFP, however there is are rumors buzzing around of a huge commercial deal coming in PSGs way that might tide them over, until then they have absolutely no hope of passing it. Zenit neither to my knowledge.

So thats it, the fact that little to no teams are going to be banned from champions league is grounds for some people to say that its failed and all a waste of time, however those people are missing the point.

UEFA doesn't want to ban anyone, in fact it hurts them badly if they have to ban many teams. UEFAs goal was to stop reckless spending and force big clubs to live in their means, and in that regard FFP has been a very big win. It might be hard to notice if you don't pay attention but spending all across Europe has decreased and the ever escalating wage and transfer markets are slowing down. Clubs are suddenly very worried about their revenues and are bringing in ever larger commercial deals.


Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Legend wrote:Only mid table teams and lower league teams from around europe will be effected

There are many ways to find loop holes, like City did with their enormous deal

What is the punishments if those teams break the rules? as far as i was aware the punishments were kicked out of EL/CL but what if you are not in the competition to begin with?

You have to qualify for a European competition in order to be punished, otherwise you can spend all you want. Punishments are in order of how badly you infringed the rules according to UEFAs point of view. You might be only fined some prize money UEFA owes to you or you might be outright banned from competitions that season (thats the harshest punishment).
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Post by norton Wed 05 Dec 2012, 23:17

Juventus have the least problems, they still have stadium to name.

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Post by Art Morte Wed 05 Dec 2012, 23:48

norton wrote:Juventus have the least problems, they still have stadium to name.

What, you mean if they name it "We <3 UEFA" stadium they will be off the hook?
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Post by chinomaster182 Thu 06 Dec 2012, 00:12

He means they can still sell the stadium name to a sponsor like the Emirates stadium, the Etihad stadium, etc.

I believe he's missing two important things:

1.- Its a big deal for whoever would want to get involved, it won't be done overnight.

2.- It might not be enough.

Its obviously going to be important for Juventus, its not the get out of jail free card he says.
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Post by norton Thu 06 Dec 2012, 00:23

The Agnelli's have the same capability that the Man City owner had (with Etihad) to do a wink, wink deal with another Italian company not directly related to FIAT, New Holland, IVECO etc.

Of all the Italian clubs, Juventus has the least to worry.

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Post by chinomaster182 Thu 06 Dec 2012, 01:49

You think so? We'll obviously going to have to wait and see but its not exactly an easy thing to do, legally speaking its almost like gifting hundreds of millions away.

I think that if they could've they would have already done it by now, but again, lets wait and see.
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Post by S Fri 21 Dec 2012, 15:32

Malaga banned from next season's Champions League due to FFP

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/financialfairplay/news/newsid=1908817.html

Other clubs include mostly Balkan clubs along with 2 Romanian clubs, 1 polish club and 1 ukrainian club.
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Post by sportsczy Fri 21 Dec 2012, 15:38

It's such a tough call because i think the system is completely flawed. They should just set a salary cap and have teams that go over the salary cap pay a luxury tax on the amount over the cap that is shared by the rest of the teams.

For example, in the NBA, the salary cap is set at 60% of the previous year's revenue... So it changes every year depending on how all the teams do in aggregate.

So under this example, even if some teams spend like crazy, those who don't and the league in general benefit.

The way the current system is set up, you're creating problems for big clubs and not really helping out the league or the other clubs. I just don't get it. Besides, if you're talking about huge and highly diversified investors, they can dance around FFP with their eyes closed.

Just a bad system. Intent is good. Plan of action is terrible imo.
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Post by Shrekkisfat Fri 21 Dec 2012, 16:42

I think this FFP thing should be cancelled.While I hate these clubs who spend millions and millions and unbalance the level of the playing field,its their own money and they should do whatever the hell they want to do with it.
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Post by BAYERN_MUNICH Fri 21 Dec 2012, 16:45

It's not their own money , and that's the point of FFP.

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Post by vivabarca38 Fri 21 Dec 2012, 17:12

I dont really get FFP.If someone buys a club and he buys players for 400m out of his own pocket on it is that breaking the rules of FFP?
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Post by Le Samourai Fri 21 Dec 2012, 17:46

Just so people know.

Malaga has the lowest wage bill in La Liga at the moment only bar perhaps Levante. The minute the Champions League money comes in all debts would be paid.

They will appeal as well.

It's strange. UEFA is witholding payments that would cover the debts.


Last edited by Le Samourai on Fri 21 Dec 2012, 18:54; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Vibe Fri 21 Dec 2012, 18:19

Art Morte wrote:
norton wrote:Juventus have the least problems, they still have stadium to name.

What, you mean if they name it "We <3 UEFA" stadium they will be off the hook?

Haha
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Post by norton Fri 21 Dec 2012, 23:59

Vibe wrote:
Art Morte wrote:
norton wrote:Juventus have the least problems, they still have stadium to name.

What, you mean if they name it "We <3 UEFA" stadium they will be off the hook?

Haha

Agnelli "Hey Mr. Pirelli, I need you to pay me 50 million euro a year and I'll call it the Pirelli Stadium"

Mr. Pirelli "What's in it for me?"

Agnelli "I'll tell Marchionne that all Fiats, Ferraris, Maseratiie, Lancias, Chryslers and Alfas will come with Pirelli tires next year"

Mr. Pirelli "If you throw in New Holland, Iveco and Case I'll pay you 100 million a year"

Agnelli "Cool, it's a deal"

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Post by Luca Sat 22 Dec 2012, 00:11

Le Samourai wrote:Just so people know.

Malaga has the lowest wage bill in La Liga at the moment only bar perhaps Levante. The minute the Champions League money comes in all debts would be paid.

They will appeal as well.

It's strange. UEFA is witholding payments that would cover the debts.

It doesn't seem that strange, teaching clubs not to rely on revenue from the Champions League when they cannot keep their books balanced themselves

It sort of ends a moral message that is unlike UEFA though

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Post by Eman Sat 22 Dec 2012, 00:18

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:It's not their own money , and that's the point of FFP.
Exactly. If the clubs were using profits to purchase players, it wouldn't hurt them. The problem is when clubs use money that isn't theirs, like bank loans from money that belongs to the public - if the clubs can't pay back the loans, everybody suffers.

Using an owner's money, which is restricted by FFP, is sometimes argued not to hurt anyone directly because owners could argue that they can do whatever they want with their personal funds, but this also makes the playing field incredibly unequal and hard work gets replaced with people who have power by virtue of things that have nothing to do with football. It also makes the market ridiculously inflated so that the people who don't have money have no opportunity for success no matter how hard they work. It essentially makes it so that whoever has the most money can do whatever they want at the expense of everybody else. F*ck that.


Last edited by Eman on Sat 22 Dec 2012, 00:22; edited 1 time in total
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Post by white_star Sat 22 Dec 2012, 00:21

Surag wrote:Malaga banned from next season's Champions League due to FFP

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/financialfairplay/news/newsid=1908817.html

Other clubs include mostly Balkan clubs along with 2 Romanian clubs, 1 polish club and 1 ukrainian club.

Lech Poznan one is dropped they will be able to compete.
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Post by Vibe Sat 22 Dec 2012, 08:57

norton wrote:
Vibe wrote:
Art Morte wrote:

What, you mean if they name it "We <3 UEFA" stadium they will be off the hook?

Haha

Agnelli "Hey Mr. Pirelli, I need you to pay me 50 million euro a year and I'll call it the Pirelli Stadium"

Mr. Pirelli "What's in it for me?"

Agnelli "I'll tell Marchionne that all Fiats, Ferraris, Maseratiie, Lancias, Chryslers and Alfas will come with Pirelli tires next year"

Mr. Pirelli "If you throw in New Holland, Iveco and Case I'll pay you 100 million a year"

Agnelli "Cool, it's a deal"

:facepalm:
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Post by danyjr Tue 16 Jul 2013, 20:14

Honestly, how can a club dish out €100+ million every season on transfers, let alone the huge salaries they pay for her players?
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Post by izzy Tue 16 Jul 2013, 20:16

Its a joke filled with plot holes that clubs are easily exploiting and UEFA look so stupid right now it's embarrassing.

Fcking Joke.
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Post by sportsczy Tue 16 Jul 2013, 20:23

When nobody other than Ibra, Silva, Lavezzi and now Cavani make 4 mil a year or more on wages.

Also when sponsorship revenue is going through the roof since Qatar owns TV networks around the world and pimp the PSG jersey, that shows the sponsors, everywhere.

Losses reported of only 5 mil for 2011-2012, no debt and rising revenue (222 mil for 2011-2012 and expected to be over 300 for 2012-2013).

Remember that under FFP, you are able to carry a total accumulated loss of 50 mil.

They're using the rules to their advantage.
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Post by danyjr Tue 16 Jul 2013, 20:42

sportsczy wrote:Also when sponsorship revenue is going through the roof since Qatar owns TV networks around the world and pimp the PSG jersey, that shows the sponsors, everywhere.
This is where UEFA should draw the line. Clubs like PSG and City have managed to use the loopholes in order to keep their balance sheets healthy. Without these internal 'investors' PSG or City cannot afford top players. Not only that, but no star players would want to go to these clubs had it not been solely for money.

PS: Pretty sure Pastore gets €4m per year.
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