Re: UEFA Financial Fair Play

by Nivash Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:23 am

A deal now for a team that includes Neymar and Mbappe who regularly make it into the more serious parts of the UCL is different to deals in the past for a team with the ambitions to have those players and make that progress. So at the time, those inflated deals had no justification and rightly should be downplayed. At best, this deal affects current and future credibility.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:54 am

sportsczy wrote:The Accor deal makes any statement that PSG is overinflating sponsorship deals moot or untenable. UEFA lost the premised behind its investigations into PSG.

That's the biggest part of all this. When you sign an independent major sponsorship deal that's top 4 in money in Europe... well you've immediately justified all other sponsorship deals in that range regardless of origin.

Wonder what Qatar gave Accor under the table to push that one through.

but they still are though, and everybody knows it. Qatar are a minority owner of Accor.

besides, no one was suggesting before that PSG was pumping money in the club through the shirt sponsorship, which was FLy Emirates...not even possible to begin with. It's shady deals with the tourism office of qatar, bein etc... which come into questions.

Besides, that Accor thing is high bullshit:the president of Accor is a former PSG president; Sarkozy is a member of the board of Accor; Qatar have ownership stakes in Accor --> miracle miracle here is 50 millions injected in the game yearly lol. i had to google them to figure out what they do lmao

by sportsczy Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm

They were suggesting that the sponsorship deals they were getting from Qatar were top 5 club level and PSG hadn't received any other sponsorships at that level from 3rd parties... hence they took a 30% haircut on the deals which they felt were inflated to the levels of their other deals, which got them in trouble with FFP. Their audited financials were always perfectly fine. The restated financials from UEFA weren't.

The basis for that argument is gone.

by Doc Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:26 pm

Technicalities aside, it is BS of the highest order but it is what it is. Not like it'll do PSG any good, they are way too rich for the rest of the league to cope with so they have no challenge and too shitty to do anything substantial in Europe because nothing is challenging in their league.

by S Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:58 pm

Swiss attorney general’s office says it has charged PSG president and BeIN Media Group chairman Nasser el Khelaifi in connection with bribing ex FIFA sec gen Jerome Valcke who is also charged with accepting bribes over World Cup TV rights.
— tariq panja (@tariqpanja) February 20, 2020

by S Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:00 pm

UEFA President Alexander Ceferin has claimed ‘Financial Fair Play is not enough anymore’ and wants to make sure of competitive balance. ‘If you spend too much, you have to give something back to the others’.

After the Champions League Final between Paris Saint-Germain and Bayern Munich, the President admitted the UEFA depends on the heavy investments from wealth funds associated with the biggest teams.

“Since we distribute almost 90 per cent of all the money back to the national associations and clubs, I would love to have even more revenues because it’s good for the development of football,” Ceferin told Reuters.

“You have to know that without UEFA distributing the funds, out of 55 national associations close to 50 would be bankrupt and then children couldn’t play in those countries.

“So, for us it’s very important that we allow investments to come, but within the regulation [and] bearing in mind Financial Fair Play and competitive balance.”

But the UEFA chief admitted that the FFP regulations in place are not doing enough to keep the competition balanced and is ready to discuss a new tax system for the clubs who spend the most.

"FFP is not enough anymore, we have to do something to take care that, if you spend too much, by our regulations you have to give something back to the others.

“Why is competitive balance so important? Because otherwise competition is not interesting anymore, it becomes boring and we don’t what that to happen.”

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:58 am

FFP's officially dead.

Just rename UEFA to UAEFA while we're at it.

Arabs control football in Europe even on an administrative level now. You'd thought you'd never see it but here we are.

PSG and City went from the biggest enemies of UEFA to their best buddies. Probably the biggest swerve you'll ever see in football.

All it took was a poorly executed superleague concept which resulted in getting on UEFA's favorable terms.

RIP to most of the traditional clubs. Your time at the top is slowly coming to an end.

by The Demon of Carthage Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:18 am

Honestly, as a Madrid fan, I have absolutely no right to complain. I saw my club in the not so distant past outspend everybody to the signature of the best players on the market. Most of our success in the 21st century was built on the backs of legends and galacticos.

PSG and City are doing exactly what Madrid used to do before. The only difference now is that they have FFP to prevent them from swallowing whole everything in their path.

I'm just curious though how are they going to swing the Messi deal - cause believe me, I have run the numbers and they don't add up. If they sign Messi and pay him the same amount that Barça used to, their wage bill won't hold up to FFP rules.

I'm just curious to find out what's the loophole they used this time.

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:59 am

I think context matters.

In a situation where most clubs have been decimated by covid, you have a couple of oil teams just pissing on everybody else and making a mockery out of the system.

I would've thought there would been some sort of regulation during these times. Apparently not. And it doesn't matter anymore seeing how Arabs are literally in bed with UEFA.

It's sad to see when a club like PSG are casually offering €40M a year for a single player while the next best team in the league is barely looking to survive the situation caused by the pandemic.

And guys like Sports thinks this is 'prudent' spending Laughing

Give me a break.

by Kaladin Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:56 am

PL clubs have huge income + big and good stadiums, tv deals and the best marketing, midtable clubs can outspend and attract players moreso than elite clubs elsewhere.

Meanwhile in Serie A, good luck getting approvals to build a stadium with their bureaucracy, absolutely mental that clubs are still at the behest of their municipalities when it comes to stadium revenue generation. Nevermind matchday-experience or organization, its overall poor because government-run, and at the same time they don't want to let go of clubs as a revenue source for them. Its absolutely insane.

Broadcasting and marketing, i probably saw like 2-3 changes in the media of Serie A over the past 10 years, it was the stylist presentation of the score on the top left corner and the logo change. Meanwhile the PL are robust in that regard with amazing presentation skills, colors, media, player statistics, fanfare and whatnot. It generates a narrative for each game, and drives up viewership which drives up the TV deal which means more money for the clubs.

Most clubs in Serie A have invested in their own 'media houses' they call it, a whole marketing and media team to generate buzz for each matchday, with interviews, social media presence, fan interaction, and whatnot. But even that isn't enough.

All this and clubs are being burdened with FFP fines and restrictions left and right, its terrible just remove FFP ffs, at least the less fortunate clubs will be unrestrained.

Really wished the Super League happened, fuck UEFA

by The Demon of Carthage Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:14 pm

Fck me, I'm still struggling to find out how PSG are going to circumvent FFP this time. Whichever way I look at it, it seems impossible.

So, you already have Neymar on €54.7million a year (€30m after tax). Add to them Ramos who's on €12m a year after tax. Then Hakimi who came for €60m + possible €10m in add-ons + €8M/year after tax. Then Donnarumma with €7M/year after tax. Wijnaldum with €10M/year after tax. I'm not even going to cite all the other players who are on premium contracts with PSG.

After all this, you want to renew Mbappé with a big contract AND sign Messi on €75M in pre-tax wages?!

Maybe I'm missing something here, but dammit UEFA should be watching their balls like hawks by now.

by farfan Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:54 pm

@S the way you use "Arab" in this context is a bit off-putting. You can easily name the parties involved without implicating a whole ethnolinguistic group in this. Laughing

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:55 pm

PSG don't have to circumvent anything. Do you know the total transfer fees PSG has paid this summer and the last? Net 143 million. So an average of 71.5 mil.

Most of the best players they've gotten are on free transfers. Their budget allows for 120 mil in transfer fees per season without selling. The reason? They fill out their squad with academy players like Kalimuenddo, Dagba and Kimpembe. In the past, Ikone, Coman, etc. So they can afford to make their squad top heavy as they don't need to invest heavily in kids (unlike Madrid and Barca have).

The only two purchases have been Icardi and Hakimi really. Ramos, Donnarumma, Wijnaldum, Messi and Perreira were free. Long gone are the overspends for the likes of Paredes, Diallo, Kehrer, etc.

Take a look at the wages per club: https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-uefa-reveal-the-top-20-highest-club-wage-bills-in-europe-20200116

That will change after this summer... but Madrid and Barca are waaaay ahead of everyone else somehow. Not sure how Madrid managed that lol.

by BarcaLearning Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:04 pm

Smart moves by PSG it seems then, I just thought they simply bribe UEFA and nobody will enforce anything or know anything Razz

Messi is definitely gonna raise the profile and popularity of Ligue 1 even more, I really hope the league can improve overall and offer more entertainment and competition.

Just curious, I thought Monaco has some sort of rule that allows them to be tax exempt or something like that? I remember in their title winning year there were lots of discussions about that...?

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:09 pm

Ligue 1 has budget constraints for clubs (revenue to wage ratio). Monaco had an exception with Ligue 1 that was removed several years ago. So besides FFP, they also need to stay within Ligue 1 financial rules. Similar to Spain.

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:15 pm

And btw, it is VERY smart to break the bank on star players like Messi, Neymar and Mbappe. Same with Ronaldo. They generate an incredible amount of extra revenue by just being on a club.

It is cataclysmically stupid to overspend on fringe players like a lot of clubs do.

That was my big issue with Real Madrid spending 30, 40 mil on kids like Rodrygo andd Vinicius. The net impact of that money is 100% on the bottom line for the club with no guarantee for returns.

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:07 pm

farfan wrote:@S the way you use "Arab" in this context is a bit off-putting. You can easily name the parties involved without implicating a whole ethnolinguistic group in this.

I apologize for the generalization. That wasn't my intention. Sorry if that came across the wrong way.

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:11 pm

sportsczy wrote:Ligue 1 has budget constraints for clubs (revenue to wage ratio). Monaco had an exception with Ligue 1 that was removed several years ago. So besides FFP, they also need to stay within Ligue 1 financial rules. Similar to Spain.

Ligue 1 and budget constraints? The rest of the league barely have a budget to begin with Laughing

Ligue 1's 'financial rules' must be a big joke then when you have one club committing almost half a billion in wages.

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:16 pm

S wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Ligue 1 has budget constraints for clubs (revenue to wage ratio). Monaco had an exception with Ligue 1 that was removed several years ago. So besides FFP, they also need to stay within Ligue 1 financial rules. Similar to Spain.

Ligue 1 and budget constraints? The rest of the league barely have a budget to begin with

Ligue 1's 'financial rules' must be a big joke then when you have one club committing almost half a billion in wages.

You even do any research before spewing nonsense? Here are the wages for the top clubs in Europe as of 2020: https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-uefa-reveal-the-top-20-highest-club-wage-bills-in-europe-20200116

If you're too lazy to click:
1. Barcelona = £453 million
2. Real Madrid = £369 million
3. Paris Saint-Germain = £289 million
4. Manchester United = £286 million
5. Bayern Munich = £270 million
6. Manchester City = £267 million
7. Liverpool = £255 million
8. Chelsea = £236 million
9. Arsenal = £232 million
10 Juventus = £224 million

And keep in mind PSG aren't even in the top 10 club in terms of net transfer fees. They've spent a grand total of 143 million TOTAL over the past 2 seasons, even with Messi (since he's free).

PSG has revenues in excess of 500 million. The basic number is 75% of revenue for wages or else you need to put bank guarantees in place. PSG is at roughly 60%. They don't even need bank guarantees.

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:29 pm

#PSG €414m wage bill represents 29% of the entire #Ligue1 payroll, an astonishing €282m more than the next highest, Lyon €132m. There are only two other clubs with wages above €100m, namely Monaco €121m and Marseille €118m. 12 clubs are below €50m. pic.twitter.com/wALfuyvbWd
— Swiss Ramble (@SwissRamble) August 2, 2021

Far more believable and trusted source.

And with the additions of the likes of Messi and Ramos, the wage bill is going to look a whole lot different.

Your 'facts and figures' appear to be far from reality.

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:31 pm

My source was UEFA. UEFA releases club wages every season for the previous one. They're required to. This past year was the only time they didn't because they weren't enforcing anything due to COVID19... but PSG added nobody in 2019-2020 of note. Barca likely added payroll lol. I'm sure Man U did. Real Madrid haven't done anything.

This is the OFFICIAL wages per UEFA: https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-uefa-reveal-the-top-20-highest-club-wage-bills-in-europe-20200116

Not sure what yours is.

by S Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:34 pm

As per the above link :

"Check out the full list below (Wage bill for the 2018 financial year):"

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:39 pm

S wrote:As per the above link :

"Check out the full list below (Wage bill for the 2018 financial year):"

Yes? And whom has PSG added? They got rid of Cavani's wages in fact and put Icardi on. Otherwise, nobody of any note was added.

UEFA didn't enforce in 2020 due to COVID19 so they skipped publishing wages per club.

That number by Swiss Ramble is utter nonsense.

by sportsczy Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:23 pm

[/url]

S wrote:
#PSG €414m wage bill represents 29% of the entire #Ligue1 payroll, an astonishing €282m more than the next highest, Lyon €132m. There are only two other clubs with wages above €100m, namely Monaco €121m and Marseille €118m. 12 clubs are below €50m. pic.twitter.com/wALfuyvbWd
— Swiss Ramble (@SwissRamble) August 2, 2021

Far more believable and trusted source.

And with the additions of the likes of Messi and Ramos, the wage bill is going to look a whole lot different.

Your 'facts and figures' appear to be far from reality.

Lol. Swiss Ramble f-ed up their own post (or made it sound intentionally deceptive by not saying "m" refers to minutes, not millions). It's 414 euros per mins played. Not 414 million euros total wages.

Here's the table it's referring to:
https://servimg.com/view/17371606/3

by The Demon of Carthage Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:23 am

@Bill and sports, UEFA also looks into salaries when assessing whether or not a club broke FFP regulations.

In PSG's case, they have been ordered by UEFA to recoup €180m in sales before the end of the transfer window. So far, if I'm not mistaken, they have only sold Bakker to Leverkusen for €7m.

In terms of salaries, and by signing Messi, they will increase their wage bill by a reported €40m a year after they already increased their total wage expenditure this summer by signing Ramos, Wijnaldum and Donnarumma on free transfers, with none of these players earning less than €10m per season.

In normal circumstances, PSG would have been torched, but there are two very important points I completely forgot yesterday:

1. The FFP rules have been relaxed this year to allow clubs with smaller revenues to survive the pandemic - something that PSG have taken full advantage of.

2. Next year, when the FFP rules will likely be tightened up again, Mbappe's and Neymar's transfer fees will have been completely amortised, leaving a massive gap for Messi's wages to slot right in.

Furthermore, and given that UEFA looks at your revenues to know whether or not your wage bill is exceeding your club's limits, this will likely not be a problem for PSG next year because Messi’s signature will also help the club gain a massive jump in their commercial value which would have a direct effect on their sponsorship deals thus allowing PSG more revenue.

So, yes, I think I have finally understood how they can afford to sign Messi without breaching FFP. But remember, they have to sell players for €173m before the end of the transfer window.

by S Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:27 pm

sportsczy wrote:[/url]
S wrote:
#PSG €414m wage bill represents 29% of the entire #Ligue1 payroll, an astonishing €282m more than the next highest, Lyon €132m. There are only two other clubs with wages above €100m, namely Monaco €121m and Marseille €118m. 12 clubs are below €50m. pic.twitter.com/wALfuyvbWd
— Swiss Ramble (@SwissRamble) August 2, 2021

Far more believable and trusted source.

And with the additions of the likes of Messi and Ramos, the wage bill is going to look a whole lot different.

Your 'facts and figures' appear to be far from reality.

Lol. Swiss Ramble f-ed up their own post (or made it sound intentionally deceptive by not saying "m" refers to minutes, not millions). It's 414 euros per mins played. Not 414 million euros total wages.

Here's the table it's referring to:
https://servimg.com/view/17371606/3

No dude you're reading it wrongly. It's millions not minutes. Seems you're new to Swiss Ramble.

Your source on the other hand is some shitty site quoting UEFA as a source. There is no direct link to access that information. Doesn't seem very convincing to me.

A lot has changed in the last 3 years. You're bragging about PSG's netspend from the last two seasons yet other clubs have hardly spent anything during the same period.

Besides all those free transfers involve millions in commission fees and signing on fees. You can hardly call them 'free transfers' anymore.

You live in a fantasy land if you think PSG's wage bill is reasonable or they're spending 'wisely'. This is just PSG being PSG. They took advantage of a situation which decimated most football clubs in Europe and played their cards right when the superleague project failed.

Now they have UEFA in their pockets and they can do as they please.

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