Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

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Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics Empty Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Post by Juveman17 Fri May 24, 2013 8:15 pm

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”
Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."
Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.

Great move the Pope to support the fact that all humans have the possibility of being moral without God.
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Post by sbaggio Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:54 am

Thanks Mr Pope......LOL.
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Post by The Sanchez Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:53 am

Wtf scratch
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Post by Clockwork Orange Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:35 pm

The pope keeps going from one disgrace to another. Followers of the faith know to never take this man seriously. His holiness indeed.
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Post by Juveman17 Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:54 am

What? He is a great Pope who actually doesent take the bullshit that John Paul took and is a simplistic Pope, who is well known as a Paragon of Virtue of the poor in Argentina. Making progressive strides for the Catholic Church that need to be made.
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Post by Uncanny Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:11 am

It's great to see him say this, I grew up in a baptist church, and I have a few of my old youth pastors on my Facebook who daily complain about how evil progressivism is and good works is not the way, but only trust in Christ is. Yet I find their statements so misguided and though I feel I am more of an agnostic now, I like what the current pope said, I like the fact that good works mean to humanity much more than a religious act.
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Post by Juveman17 Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:01 pm

@Uncanny wrote:It's great to see him say this, I grew up in a baptist church, and I have a few of my old youth pastors on my Facebook who daily complain about how evil progressivism is and good works is not the way, but only trust in Christ is.  Yet I find their statements so misguided and though I feel I  am more of an agnostic now, I like what the current pope said, I like the fact that good works mean to humanity much more than a religious act.
+1
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Post by Dante Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:16 am

It had to come to 2013 for a pope to say this in public. Morals existed before the christian god or gods in general , it's deepening sad it took till 2013 for the most common western religion to admit it. Having said that , it's a lot more than i can say for the orthodox branch of christians here in Greece.

Here if you aren't a christian orthodox , and especialy if you are atheist , the majority of them believe you must eat children or wear assassin creed robes and worship demons or you're misguided and in need of saviour , "you're still young , you'll see".. it's realy difficult to decide if you must laugh or cry about it. Medieval mentality and beliefs. The majority will say that most atheists are not accustomed to doing good and they really believe that to be a good man , you must be one of them , at least a theist in the worst scenario. Apparently , atheists are not their gods children or no brothers of them. Laughing Whatever helps them sleep at night ..

I applaud this Pope for his words. He deserves respect regardless of what anyone believes. Although he did mix morals with Jesus .. i suppose it's a solid step forward and i can overlook it for the greater picture.
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Post by McLewis Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:10 pm

@Dante wrote:It had to come to 2013 for a pope to say this in public. Morals existed before the christian god or gods in general , it's deepening sad it took till 2013 for the most common western religion to admit it. Having said that , it's a lot more than i can say for the orthodox branch of christians here in Greece.

Here if you aren't a christian orthodox , and especialy if you are atheist , the majority of them believe you must eat children or wear assassin creed robes and worship demons or you're misguided and in need of saviour , "you're still young , you'll see".. it's realy difficult to decide if you must laugh or cry about it. Medieval mentality and beliefs. The majority will say that most atheists are not accustomed to doing good and they really believe that to be a good man , you must be one of them , at least a theist in the worst scenario. Apparently , atheists are not their gods children or no brothers of them. :lol:Whatever helps them sleep at night ..

I applaud this Pope for his words. He deserves respect regardless of what anyone believes. Although he did mix morals with Jesus .. i suppose it's a solid step forward and i can overlook it for the greater picture.

He'd have been burned at the stake as a heretic in the really bad times of history so it only makes sense that he'd come out and say this in a much more accepting time (more or less).

There are still places where atheists are killed or in eminent danger of being killed because of their lack of belief however, just to put that into perspective with what they would face in Greece. The world has changed by and large, but there's still a looooong way to go.
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Post by Dante Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:59 pm

@McLewis wrote:
He'd have been burned at the stake as a heretic in the really bad times of history so it only makes sense that he'd come out and say this in a much more accepting time (more or less).

There are still places where atheists are killed or in eminent danger of being killed because of their lack of belief however, just to put that into perspective with what they would face in Greece. The world has changed by and large, but there's still a looooong way to go.

I must admit i didn't think of the timing like that , indeed you're right . I still find it saddening tbh , but i can understand change takes time and there must be foundations for it to really count.

I also agree with this , long way to go yet. Many people still suffer a lot or in actual danger because of their beliefs or lack thereof , mostly in 3rd world countries . One can only feel sorry for them , their societies/countries are in most desperate need of change .. I suppose i should feel lucky living in Greece , compared to other places which i wouldn't even dare defy the pious and their self righteousness.

Part of it is true , i am lucky , in a way. The other part , is where religious people come into place(poorly educated people mostly) , suggesting i should keep it to myself , because
" you wouldn't dare speak like that in other countries, they would chop your head off in the middle of the city " ..

It's a really despairing view of many rational people here in Greece , that a good chunk of the religious people (could even be a good majority), want for Greece to become moaar of a theocracy than what already is, make the present moar like the past and less like the future , live in a society with only greeks and most of all , greeks who only share the same religious and political beliefs. You try to reason with them and make them understand their lack of morals.. yet they never fail to fail. They talk about freedom of speech against the goverment , yet they moved in masses to close down a theater play called the Corpus Christi
wikipedia wrote:The planned staging of the play in Athens, Greece, in October 2012 caught the attention of national-liberation organizations including the Greek Nationalist parliamentary party Golden Dawn. This led to violent protests by party members and clergymen, with journalists and audience members being banned in the theater, and the premiere was cancelled
It doesn't mention almost anything about the christian-talibans who marched out of their caves that day..
You cannot possibly begin to comprehend what i heard those days , even from people close to me , many said that we should be like Iran with blashpemers , others were saying put them in jail ,lots of outrageous stuff. Some non-believers call these christian orthodorcs Laughing, those who know no better than that , obviously.

The sad fact is , yes there are worse , but even more saddening is that many here want that worse because they think that's what's right, yes in a European country in 2013 , for those who don't share the same beliefs as them . Many of them cannot even comprehend morals and religion does not go hand in hand ..they think of it as the same thing , it's laughable for grown ups to think like that actualy :lol:Not all obviously and especially a good amount of vitrine christians can't find a fk to give about what their religion says actualy Laughing, but enough to be alarming.

To be fair , there are many religious people who can obviously tell the difference , those are usualy not fanatic . I hope for the best but , i don't see it any time soon. Here at least Laughing
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Post by Sushi Master Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:08 pm

This guy's really growing on to me. He doesn't take bullshit and speaks out his mind, even if it means going against popular opinion or twisting the undies of many of the old school type guys. I like how he wants to appeal to the poorer class, compared to the other pompous assholes.

Latin popes :bow:
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Post by Juveman17 Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:32 pm

Francis is a conservative Pope in a good way in that he helps the poor and is very humble. He is also very open to everyone which is a characteristic that separates him from others.
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Post by jibers Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:41 am

The Pope has always been a clown. I don't know what scripture he is following but he does not have absolute authority, the Bible does. Laughable that people even listen to the leader of one of the most corrupt instutions in history.

There are 3 absolutes in life:

Death
Taxes
The Catholic Church being corrupt from top to bottom
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Post by Juveman17 Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:53 am

JIBERS IS BACK
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Post by jibers Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:54 am

@juveman17 wrote:JIBERS IS BACK

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics Url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=2o3f_TB0dS5BKM&tbnid=Kis7skkrw72aDM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi1195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa398%2Fgp03stamen%2FLulz%2F25903973-cry-gif-


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Post by Juveman17 Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:17 am

Cant see the pic Sad
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Post by CBarca Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:38 am

Cool. I get to be redeemed
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Post by Ballack Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:45 pm

Stupid act by the Pope, atheists ARE going to hell! it says so in the HOLY BIBLE.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:54 pm

It says a lot of things in the bible, which aren't meant to be taken literally.

Also, i'm pretty confident the POPE would be in a fairly good position to judge what does and doesn't go against the bible. Being... the POPE and all.
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Post by Ballack Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:01 pm

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:It says a lot of things in the bible, which aren't meant to be taken literally.

Also, i'm pretty confident the POPE would be in a fairly good position to judge what does and doesn't go against the bible. Being... the POPE and all.
No, the Bible is the LITERAL word of the almighty God, despite being the Pope (he is only man) while God is almighty and great. Read a Bible!

What the pope says doesn't change the truth (what is written in the bible).

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Post by Juveman17 Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:28 pm

@Ballack wrote:
@Tomwin Lannister wrote:It says a lot of things in the bible, which aren't meant to be taken literally.

Also, i'm pretty confident the POPE would be in a fairly good position to judge what does and doesn't go against the bible. Being... the POPE and all.
No, the Bible is the LITERAL word of the almighty God, despite being the Pope (he is only man) while God is almighty and great. Read a Bible!

What the pope says doesn't change the truth (what is written in the bible).

That's utterly incorrect. In Islam, it states that it is the literal word of God. In Catholicism, it is never said to be the direct word of God. Learn your facts before you post.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:26 pm

Pope Bluntly Faults Church’s Focus on Gays and Abortion

Pope Francis, in the first extensive interview of his six-month-old papacy, said that the Roman Catholic church had grown “obsessed” with preaching about abortion, gay marriage and contraception, and that he has chosen not to speak of those issues despite recriminations from some critics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/20/world/europe/pope-bluntly-faults-churchs-focus-on-gays-and-abortion.html?pagewanted=1&ref=global-home&_r=0
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Post by Vibe Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:30 am

This is the first person I feel is deserving of his calling,the last Pope I just found to be disgusting as much as Vatican stance in general with their medieval opinions.He is supposed to be a spiritual leader and an emissary of good which is what I see Pope Francis as,unlike the Pope before him.

He's basically saying the most important thing is to do good regardless of your religion or lack of,life style and orientation.If God is a higher,sacred being do you really think he would want to "blackmail" people into getting a ticket for heaven by primarily choosing him to believe in and reject everyone else?Rejection sounds rather unholy to me.

Does that mean a Catholic,hetherosexual person who is a white supremacist and happens to murder people but prays before he goes to bed in prison is more likely to be redeemed than a homosexual atheist living life as a good person doing good deeds?I don't think that makes sense.

I don't necessarily disagree with the general stance on homosexuals and abortion,but it is taken very extreme by the church.
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Post by El Chelsea Fuerte Wed May 14, 2014 2:22 am

Now the Pope is sprouting out Socialist principles.

Time to shut up, buddy.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 14, 2014 2:23 am

On his first day he said he wanted "a poor church for the poor" and its only now that he is turning socialist? Laughing
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