Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career

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Post by sportsczy Tue May 07, 2013 10:16 pm

Scirea, Baresi, Gentile, Cabrini, Bergomi, Maldini, Tassotti, Costacurta, Briegel, Passarella, etc.

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Post by Be/\/ceCALI Tue May 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Or did they.... Hungary back in the day :bow:

Shame they are a bit of an irrelevance now Sad

We might qualify for this WC Smile first time since '86, that would be a nice achievement. like a trophy!
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Post by Juveman17 Tue May 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Be/\/ceCALI wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Or did they.... Hungary back in the day :bow:

Shame they are a bit of an irrelevance now Sad

We might qualify for this WC Smile first time since '86, that would be a nice achievement. like a trophy!

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVBqX8J8UMqtdfEccSqS4H-aaF7sJPHRq32slnnO6iHfb-kcMwMg
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 07, 2013 11:02 pm

juventus101 wrote:While its amazing, k still consider Maradona the better player, at least until Messi does something of note at international level.

Also, Messi (and Ronaldo) have taken goalscoring to a whole nother level yes, but it should be noted that the defending of this generation is laughable especially in La Liga, and even morsel when you compare this La Liga generation to the Serie A generation Maradona played against. I mean, you could probably name 10 defenders that Maradona played against that are better than anything Messi regularly plays against.
That's just highlighting one aspect of the game, all these are included in goal averages of the game. In relation Messi is still the better scorer even when you consider this. Also where as Maradona sometimes were man marked, Messi is team marked, teams study him constantly and everybody is instructed to first nullify Messi. Maradona never had this problem.

The overall space Messi has seems to disappear more and more every year, yet he seems to need less space to score every year. Just look how quick and in small space he scored against lately against Milan and Bilbao.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue May 07, 2013 11:09 pm

Pls don't pretend it's more difficult for messi to score. Its Too much, even for you.
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Post by Valkyrja Tue May 07, 2013 11:10 pm

Harmonica wrote:
juventus101 wrote:While its amazing, k still consider Maradona the better player, at least until Messi does something of note at international level.

Also, Messi (and Ronaldo) have taken goalscoring to a whole nother level yes, but it should be noted that the defending of this generation is laughable especially in La Liga, and even morsel when you compare this La Liga generation to the Serie A generation Maradona played against. I mean, you could probably name 10 defenders that Maradona played against that are better than anything Messi regularly plays against.
That's just highlighting one aspect of the game, all these are included in goal averages of the game. In relation Messi is still the better scorer even when you consider this. Also where as Maradona sometimes were man marked, Messi is team marked, teams study him constantly and everybody is instructed to first nullify Messi. Maradona never had this problem.

The overall space Messi has seems to disappear more and more every year, yet he seems to need less space to score every year. Just look how quick and in small space he scored against lately against Milan and Bilbao.

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Maradona_display_image
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 07, 2013 11:14 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Pls don't pretend it's more difficult for messi to score. Its Too much, even for you.
Oh joy, another deluded tween who read from a book how good Maradona was.

And I didn't say that scoring now is harder, I said in relation to goal averages, which indicates how hard it's to score on average, Messi is still better scorer.

When someone highlights some top defenders, I can highlight tactics.
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Post by jibers Tue May 07, 2013 11:16 pm

Highlight tactics then...
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
juventus101 wrote:While its amazing, k still consider Maradona the better player, at least until Messi does something of note at international level.

Also, Messi (and Ronaldo) have taken goalscoring to a whole nother level yes, but it should be noted that the defending of this generation is laughable especially in La Liga, and even morsel when you compare this La Liga generation to the Serie A generation Maradona played against. I mean, you could probably name 10 defenders that Maradona played against that are better than anything Messi regularly plays against.
That's just highlighting one aspect of the game, all these are included in goal averages of the game. In relation Messi is still the better scorer even when you consider this. Also where as Maradona sometimes were man marked, Messi is team marked, teams study him constantly and everybody is instructed to first nullify Messi. Maradona never had this problem.

The overall space Messi has seems to disappear more and more every year, yet he seems to need less space to score every year. Just look how quick and in small space he scored against lately against Milan and Bilbao.

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Maradona_display_image
Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Maradona%20Belgium

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Messi%20Benfica

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Messi%20dribble%20Benfica

And another myth falls. Razz
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Post by Collblanc Tue May 07, 2013 11:31 pm

Hahahaha, this is getting ugly for the Maradona fanboys :bow:
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 07, 2013 11:34 pm

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Maradona%20Goal%20Milan

The glorious defending of Mussi, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini. Nobody concentrating Maradona. Proud

Sad thing is I'm Maradona fanboy, and I have to deal with this constantly.

What I suffer for GL's knowledge. Sad
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Post by Kaladin Tue May 07, 2013 11:38 pm

The defence there wanted to work the offside trap...which was Sacchi's defensive emphasis on his Milan, i think you aren't giving a bit credit to Maradona tbf
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Post by juventus101 Tue May 07, 2013 11:45 pm

I guess you guys don't realize that any one of Scirea, Baresi, Maldini, etc by themself would have a better chance of stopping Maradona/Messi than an entire Benfica back 4. That's why it was rare for Maradona to be surrounded, because it simply wasn't needed as much because defenders were on a whole bother level back then (yet it still sometimes happenned). Nesta is a perfect example. He rolled back the years in a few games against Barca, kept an eye on Messi, and pretty much nullified him single-handidly. And this was a mid 30's Nesta.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue May 07, 2013 11:51 pm

What's interesting about maradona s career goalscoring wise is how much potential and how good he was at a young age. By the age 22 he scored about a 154 goals for club + country. Messi scored about 90 respectively,maradona played only slightly more games. So why didn't maradona continue like that? A Number of things imo, 2 years of relatively low numbers at barca when he should have been entering prime because of hepatitis and a broken ankle, as well as adjusting to Europe's most violent league. Then he went to the most defensive league arguably in history to play at a lower table team, that's the antithesis of a glorified stat padder if you ask me. His spiralling lifestyle and his evolution to being more a midfielder than forward compounded things as well.
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Post by Harmonica Tue May 07, 2013 11:57 pm

juventus101 wrote:I guess you guys don't realize that any one of Scirea, Baresi, Maldini, etc by themself would have a better chance of stopping Maradona/Messi than an entire Benfica back 4. That's why it was rare for Maradona to be surrounded, because it simply wasn't needed as much because defenders were on a whole bother level back then (yet it still sometimes happenned). Nesta is a perfect example. He rolled back the years in a few games against Barca, kept an eye on Messi, and pretty much nullified him single-handidly. And this was a mid 30's Nesta.
Again you are using hyperboles when speaking about something. When you stop and think about that logically you realize that isn't true in the slightest. Maldini isn't better than 4 players, nor did Nesta stop Messi. Messi was involved in seven goals against Milan and Nesta, scored 3 and assisted 3. How is that single-handedly stopping Messi?
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Post by zizzle Wed May 08, 2013 12:34 am

its amazing how someone who never saw Maradona play can still talk like an expert by using Wikipedia and Youtube clips. You use a failed execution of the offside trap to illustrate that Italian defending of the late 80s and early 90s is not that good, you know, since everyone who actually knows something about the history of football is wrong, How can you argue against a gif right? and how many Maradona games have you seen to say that he wasnt "team marked" ? every great striker in history was team marked, from R9 to Maradona and down to Pele, but at least Messi didnt have to deal with thuggish defenders that were determined to break his legs, ask Pele, he's been there
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Post by DuringTheWar Wed May 08, 2013 12:43 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Also Maradona was 26 in the 1986, when he played a WC at 22 he flopped, was man-marked out of the game and had very little effect. I'm not taking anything away from him, but if Maradona were 25 today and had only won what he had won by age 25 there would be no question of who is better.

Maradona was 25 actually in 86 and 21 in 82. The last sentence is such... "gibberish", do you believe that? Maradona was called the best in the world by many people before he'd even won anything. Trophies don't define the calibre of a player
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Post by Harmonica Wed May 08, 2013 12:46 am

zizzle wrote:its amazing how someone who never saw Maradona play can still talk like an expert by using Wikipedia and Youtube clips. You use a failed execution of the offside trap to illustrate that Italian defending of the late 80s and early 90s is not that good, you know, since everyone who actually knows something about the history of football is wrong, How can you argue against a gif right? and how many Maradona games have you seen to say that he wasnt "team marked" ? every great striker in history was team marked, from R9 to Maradona and down to Pele, but at least Messi didnt have to deal with thuggish defenders that were determined to break his legs, ask Pele, he's been there
Wow it's like a never ending stream of stupidity from the sewers of GL.

Now you are assuming somebody didn't know tactics, because he points how bad the defending and concentration on Maradona in the particular situation was?



Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Di-JDZJ

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Di-ONDZ

Messi reaches 345 goals, the same amount as Maradona in his entire career - Page 4 Di-TN1S

Yeah, is see no thuggish defenders. Razz
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed May 08, 2013 3:46 am

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Maradona was 25 actually in 86 and 21 in 82. The last sentence is such... "gibberish", do you believe that? Maradona was called the best in the world by many people before he'd even won anything. Trophies don't define the calibre of a player
Yeah you're right I got my years off by 1 but he would still not have won the WC in this hypothetical scenario because it's not summer yet. In any case my original point was that if you compare Maradona before his 2nd WC and Messi, it's the latter who clearly wins the comparisons. On titles won alone Messi has 5 leagues, 2 country cups and 3 CLs, while Maradona had 2 leagues and 1 country cup. Obviously titles are not everything, and Maradona didn't have the good fortune of coming up through a top european club's youth, but I doubt anyone was calling Maradona the greatest of all time when he had so little success. The main tenants of the legend of Maradona are the world cup and taking Naples to 2 league titles, and he had achieved neither of those by this stage in his career.
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Post by zizzle Wed May 08, 2013 5:45 am

Harmonica wrote:
zizzle wrote:its amazing how someone who never saw Maradona play can still talk like an expert by using Wikipedia and Youtube clips. You use a failed execution of the offside trap to illustrate that Italian defending of the late 80s and early 90s is not that good, you know, since everyone who actually knows something about the history of football is wrong, How can you argue against a gif right? and how many Maradona games have you seen to say that he wasnt "team marked" ? every great striker in history was team marked, from R9 to Maradona and down to Pele, but at least Messi didnt have to deal with thuggish defenders that were determined to break his legs, ask Pele, he's been there
Wow it's like a never ending stream of stupidity from the sewers of GL.

Now you are assuming somebody didn't know tactics, because he points how bad the defending and concentration on Maradona in the particular situation was?

Yeah, is see no thuggish defenders. Razz



kid please, if you wanna quote me and call me stupid dont expect me to waste more time on you.
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Post by CBarca Wed May 08, 2013 5:58 am

Please guys stop it.

You should know by now that arguing with Jiopsi is useless and a waste of time and he'll just use his large MessiPornFolder.gif to combat you even though they mean nothing and show absolutely nothing (this thread --> case in point).

As for the actual thread: That's an amazing stat. The sky really is the limit for this kid.

This is one of those times you'll be able to look back on and say "Yeah, I remember watching the great Messi...what a player...". I'm blessed to watch Messi play week in and week out.
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Post by Forza Wed May 08, 2013 5:59 am

This has become one of the worst threads on GL. You won't often see a Milan fan agree with an Inter fan, but here it is...

zizzle wrote:Barcelona Fankids, please don't ruin this otherwise interesting thread with childish remarks, you can still make a point without putting down the other poster, but i think its hard to knock some sense into some 13 year old wannabe forum legends

There was potential for a good discussion, but it was ruined by fanboyism.
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Post by kiranr Wed May 08, 2013 6:08 am


The whole thing started when people started slating La Liga in a bid to downplay Messi's achievement. I would say the scope for good discussion was thrown out of the window with those comments in the first page itself.
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Post by Fuchsteufelswild Wed May 08, 2013 9:22 am

]

La Liga used to be the most violent league? Enlighten me. What has changed over the years? It seems to be the softest league these days.
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Post by Harmonica Wed May 08, 2013 11:36 am

zizzle wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
zizzle wrote:its amazing how someone who never saw Maradona play can still talk like an expert by using Wikipedia and Youtube clips. You use a failed execution of the offside trap to illustrate that Italian defending of the late 80s and early 90s is not that good, you know, since everyone who actually knows something about the history of football is wrong, How can you argue against a gif right? and how many Maradona games have you seen to say that he wasnt "team marked" ? every great striker in history was team marked, from R9 to Maradona and down to Pele, but at least Messi didnt have to deal with thuggish defenders that were determined to break his legs, ask Pele, he's been there
Wow it's like a never ending stream of stupidity from the sewers of GL.

Now you are assuming somebody didn't know tactics, because he points how bad the defending and concentration on Maradona in the particular situation was?

Yeah, is see no thuggish defenders. Razz



kid please, if you wanna quote me and call me stupid dont expect me to waste more time on you.
Yeah, I really want your input in this discussion. rofl
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Post by Harmonica Wed May 08, 2013 11:40 am

Forza wrote:There was potential for a good discussion, but it was ruined by fanboyism.
Sad but true, GL has many fanboys, and a lot of them got exposed in this thread.
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