Tactics, Formations, and Strategy Thread

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Post by flameas Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:19 pm

Perrotta is too old and slow to be that box-to-box midfielder.
Rather have Florenzi there, Lamela on right and Dodo on left
Dodo has clearly the pace and technique, so better use him in midfield, rather than in defense.

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Post by ErPupone Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:39 pm

Perrotta is currently one of the only ones capable of playing that box to box role, he's the one that knows it best. He still has the legs to do it. And if the management wants a a change, then Perrotta's experience would contribute to that.

I would also start calling up guys like Cittadino, Frediani, Sammartino and the Ricci twins.
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Post by ErPupone Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:47 pm

Our real problem is lack of players who could play on the flank to pull off the 4-2-3-1.
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Post by flameas Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:09 pm

I dont agree : we have dodo, marquinho, taddei, Lamela, torosidis, even florenzi or piris could play there.
Perrotta doesnt have the legs, he moves in slow motion these days.. Id try marquinho there or florenzi.. they are full or ( sometimes useless) running.
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Post by ErPupone Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:29 pm

Well useless running isn't going to get us very far. Perrotta is intelligent with his runs.

Piris is a liability defensively, as is Dodo who was running like a headless chicken against Cagliari. There is 0 intelligence on the flanks at the moment. Lamela has the flair, but his positioning is often off and he doesn't make the right movements (when he did what Zeman told him, he scored, but has done nothing since coming back from injury). Torosidis could be saved from criticism since we have only seen him play about 20 minutes so far. If Perrotta is passed it, as you say, then so is Taddei.

Spalletti has Panucci, a solid full back capable of contributing on both ends. He had Tonetto who was unspectacular, but held his ground. He also had Mancini and Taddei in their primes, capable of adhering to his tactics. Even Vucinic exploded under Spalletti as an outside striker.

Marquinho fits in best, even in that front three. But that leaves no one at left back (unless we put Torosidis on his opposite side). We have one right winger, Taddei... talk about an unpopular decision at this point in his career. Florenzi could be move to the wing with success.
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Post by Lupi Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:03 pm

----------stek
vasilis-marcos-castan-balza
--------ddr--bradley
lamela---totti----pjanic
---------osvaldo

------------Lobont
piris---burdisso-romagnoli-taddei
-------------tacht
florenzi--perotta-marquinhos--dodo
------------destro

weak bench
ErPupone wrote:So, Andreazzoli, Spalletti's assistant as well as a coach under Montella and Enrique, is our new manager. He co-created our famous 4-2-3-1 which is likely to come back, with Totti as the lone-striker. Here's what I expect to see:

Stekelenburg
Torosidis Castan Marquinhos Dodo
De Rossi Bradley
Lamela Pjanic Florenzi
Totti


On the other hand, what I would like to see:

Stekelenburg
Torosids Castan Marquinhos Marquinho
De Rossi Pjanic
Florenzi Perrotta Lamela
Totti

osvaldo 16m +destro 16= 32m of the squad completely?
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Post by DiRocco Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:16 pm

Going out on a limb here and I will say Totti will absolutely not be the lone striker. IMO he will probably continue on the left attacking mid, Pjanic will be in the CAM box to box role, and Lamela on the right attacking mid. Totti simply does not have the legs or defensive ability to play in the central spot under the 4-2-3-1. There is no way Osvaldo and Destro both sit on the bench on a regular basis.
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Post by ErPupone Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:20 am

Epoto wrote:----------stek
vasilis-marcos-castan-balza
--------ddr--bradley
lamela---totti----pjanic
---------osvaldo

------------Lobont
piris---burdisso-romagnoli-taddei
-------------tacht
florenzi--perotta-marquinhos--dodo
------------destro

weak bench
ErPupone wrote:So, Andreazzoli, Spalletti's assistant as well as a coach under Montella and Enrique, is our new manager. He co-created our famous 4-2-3-1 which is likely to come back, with Totti as the lone-striker. Here's what I expect to see:

Stekelenburg
Torosidis Castan Marquinhos Dodo
De Rossi Bradley
Lamela Pjanic Florenzi
Totti


On the other hand, what I would like to see:

Stekelenburg
Torosids Castan Marquinhos Marquinho
De Rossi Pjanic
Florenzi Perrotta Lamela
Totti

osvaldo 16m +destro 16= 32m of the squad completely?

I didn't consider Destro given that he's injured and out for a while. But for the time being, yes. Osvaldo, despite scoring a few goals here and there, has not been working hard enough. Destro has worked harder, but failed to deliver a number of times. If they want change, well then they have it with the formation I proposed. Either way, with what we've seen from our boys so far this season, its still not good enough.

In all honesty, I see us with a 3 man back line.

Stekelenburg

Romagnoli Castan Marcos

Torosidis De Rossi Pjanic Florenzi Marquinho

Osvaldo/Lamela Totti
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Post by Lupi Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:27 am

ErPupone wrote:

In all honesty, I see us with a 3 man back line.

Stekelenburg

Romagnoli Castan Marcos

Torosidis De Rossi Pjanic Florenzi Marquinho

Osvaldo/Lamela Totti

Thumbs up
and if the team perform well in that i can see viviani and bertolacci can easily find their place there
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Post by flameas Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:24 pm

there is a difference between a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-6-0- I belive the later one will be played. Thats the spalletti one. Spalletti version doesnt have a stong, box type striker, rather a creative one.
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Post by ErPupone Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:24 pm

Agreed, we've often discussed Spalletti's 4-2-3-1. To be honest, I don't think we have the players to pull it off, we'd be too unbalanced. We lack players with the tactical intelligence to do so, especially on the flanks.

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Post by Lupi Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:06 pm

the 4-5-1-0 was because of the squad we had , spaletti was forced to use that formation because apart from totti we didn't have a striker to play as forward
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Post by DiRocco Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:07 am

With our squad I would do something like this...I think we may even see something similar.

Tactics, Formations, and Strategy Thread - Page 8 AbEc4xDadC

De Rossi and Bradley have similar characteristics and could work well in a "double pivot". Either one could initiate an attacking movement from the deep areas, although De Rossi would be the preferred outlet. Pjanic would also drop back to supply legs in the midfield and provide creativity for the 3 more attacking oriented players on the pitch. Obviously Totti, Lamela, and Osvaldo/Destro would have defensive duties as well. Florenzi could realistically slot in any where in behind Osvaldo.


Last edited by DiRocco on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ErPupone Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:47 am

^ But then I have two issues with that:

A) This would be far too imbalanced with a lack of movement off the ball, therefore no moving options going forward.

B) If, to add a bit of balance, Pjanic were to be dropped back, then you have Zeman's 4-3-3 so firing him would've been completely pointless.
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Post by DiRocco Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:57 am

ErPupone wrote:^ But then I have two issues with that:

A) This would be far too imbalanced with a lack of movement off the ball, therefore no moving options going forward.

B) If, to add a bit of balance, Pjanic were to be dropped back, then you have Zeman's 4-3-3 so firing him would've been completely pointless.

I see what you mean, however it differs from Zeman in the fact both De Rossi and Bradley would sit back and support the defense and initiate moves from deep areas. I would have to believe between Lamela, Pjanic, Totti, and Osvaldo there would be plenty of creativity and movement. If those 4 cant create a spark up from then we have a bigger problem. Its a subtle change, but realistically could make a huge difference. How else would you implement a 4-2-3-1 with this current squad?

I dont see much difference with my posted set up and how say, a team like Madrid play. You have Pjanic Being the Ozil role, Totti in the Ronaldo role, Lamela in Di Maria role, and Osvaldo up front, all supported by the dual pivot. It provides plenty of balance as long as the supporting 3 are instructed to track back.
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Post by ErPupone Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:15 am

Well, I wouldn't implement a 4-2-3-1 with this team. If I absolutely had to, then it would be the one I posted earlier.

And the last time we aspired to playing like one of Spain's top clubs, we failed at it. So I'd stay away from the Real Madrid comparisons.

Lamela, Pjanic and Totti won't consistently track back for 90 minutes. And if they do, their marking abilities, especially of the first one I mentioned, isn't good enough to be completely effective. But, someone like Marquinho or Florenzi will have the legs do that, while covering well and providing more balance.
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Post by DiRocco Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:33 am

The reason I was working with a 4-2-3-1 was because I was simply assuming we would be lining up like that under Aurelio. I guess we will have to agree to disagree in this one Smile either way I'm interested to see what direction our strategy will take.

At the end of the day there is far more that go into tactics than an on paper formation. There was plent of reason why the defense failed miserably under Zeman, and I believe it had little to do with Totti and Lamelas defensive and marking duties.
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Post by flameas Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:15 am

Tactics, Formations, and Strategy Thread - Page 8 AbEdcbfan1

This is what I like to see. Totti doesnt have the pace to be winger, so its dropping him and playing Osvaldo or otherway around.
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Post by McLewis Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:32 am

Well Totti did just fine on the left wing under Zeman. Didn't need pace to still GOAT in that position. So I disagree with that.

I also don't think we can play him up front over Osvaldo and Destro, who are better suited now to the lone-striker role. So if anything, Totti will likely remain on the left of the 3 behind the main striker and that's probably the right move considering Dodo does not seem like a player who will track back much.
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Post by flameas Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:48 am

Dodo would do fine. Hes a LB, who clearly isnt one. So he must be a winger, has the pace and technique.

Totti was on the left wing, but..did he really do his defensive duties that well? I mean, he had his best years under Spalletti. 20+ goals per season. It would be my dream to see him at that lone striker position again.
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Post by McLewis Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:54 am

flameas wrote:Dodo would do fine. Hes a LB, who clearly isnt one. So he must be a winger, has the pace and technique.

Totti was on the left wing, but..did he really do his defensive duties that well? I mean, he had his best years under Spalletti. 20+ goals per season. It would be my dream to see him at that lone striker position again.

I think that ship has sailed though. Yeah it would be incredibly nostalgic to see Totti play in the role that won him the Golden Boot, but that's physically demanding position now that is more suited for a prima punta, which is not what Totti has ever really been, now more than ever.

As for Dodo, Lamela also has pace and technique....Lamela also doesn't track back much either. I expect the same out of Dodo if we're going to play him like a winger, but to be honest, I would prefer they both do more defensively. Totti did far more than both have in that aspect this season. There's been a few times when I've seen him chase and harry someone all the way back into our box. I can't remember Lamela or Dodo doing something like that.
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Post by flameas Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:18 pm

Il 4-2-3-1 potrebbe essere questo, Dodò permettendo:
Stekelenburg; Piris, Marcos, Castàn, Dodò; De Rossi, Bradley; Lamela, Pjanic, Florenzi; Totti/Osvaldo.

Il 3-5-2:
Stekelenburg; Marcos, Burdisso, Castàn; Piris/Florenzi, De Rossi, Pjanic, Bradley, Dodò/Marquinho; Lamela/Totti, Osvaldo.

Some formations suggested by forza-roma.com

Still it seems that Totti is going to be considered for that lone striker role.
Marqunho is an interesting option for the wing also.
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Post by ErPupone Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:55 pm

Marquinho has to play, especially if we switch to a 4-2-3-1. He's the only one, aside from Perrotta, capable of properly choosing his runs and contribute on both ends of the pitch. Marquinho and Florenzi together would be suitable replacements for the Taddei and Perrotta of the past. Lamela isn't capable, mentally, to work in these positions to full effect.

I would also favor switching Totti back to a lone-striker under that formation since I'm tired of swearing at Osvaldo and Destro for not being clinical enough and for the former not being able to complete a pass. The only problem I see with this, though, is something that Zeman pointed out when he was first appointed manager; Totti, as a lone-striker, does take a lot more knocks and is more prone to picking up serious injuries. So far this season, when he's been out wide, he's managed to avoid some of those crunching tackles (most of the fouls he's taken have been tugs on his jersey). This is the only reason why, apart from his good performances so far, I would consider keeping Totti on the wing rather than moving him up.

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Post by DiRocco Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:20 pm

McLewis wrote:
I think that ship has sailed though. Yeah it would be incredibly nostalgic to see Totti play in the role that won him the Golden Boot, but that's physically demanding position now that is more suited for a prima punta, which is not what Totti has ever really been, now more than ever.

These are my thoughts exactly. Tottis main contributions this season have been his sublime crossing, passing, and shots from distance. The best place to contribute this is from a side position. Totti is simply not fast enough, strong enough on the ball, and durable enough at this point in his career to be playing that role to proper effect. Im sure Aurelio has to see his as well.

Putting in Totti as the lone striker we are effectivaly trading Osvaldo for Marquinho or Florenzi. In other words, we are losing A LOT of goal threat. If we are trying to tighten up on defence to close a game down I can see it. So essentially you are telling me we need to play;

Marquihno----Pjanic----Florenzi
----------------Totti----------------

Where exactly are the goals going to come from? Totti simply is not a goal scoring machine any more, and it leaves practically 30 mil on the bench doing nothing. Lamela and Osvaldo are our top scorers this season with a combined total of over 20 goals, leaving them on the bench would be plain foolish.
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Post by Lupi Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:14 am

McLewis wrote:Well Totti did just fine on the left wing under Zeman. Didn't need pace to still GOAT in that position. So I disagree with that.

I also don't think we can play him up front over Osvaldo and Destro, who are better suited now to the lone-striker role. So if anything, Totti will likely remain on the left of the 3 behind the main striker and that's probably the right move considering Dodo does not seem like a player who will track back much.
i think one of the factors that helped Totti to play well as a LW was zeman , balzaretti and helped him a lot , in one occasion that i don't remember what game it was that Totti couldn't get the lobbed pass and balza controlled it with chest and passed to him is the best example and if Roma chose the same we get the same result .

ErPupone wrote:^ But then I have two issues with that:

A) This would be far too imbalanced with a lack of movement off the ball, therefore no moving options going forward.

B) If, to add a bit of balance, Pjanic were to be dropped back, then you have Zeman's 4-3-3 so firing him would've been completely pointless.
Firing zeman was pointless anyways
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Post by flameas Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:34 am

Epoto wrote:
Firing zeman was pointless anyways

I disagree. He was WAY to stubborn. Always hes way, never the right way for the specific situation.
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