Mats Hummels

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Post by Le Samourai Sun May 26, 2013 10:02 pm

Players like this are so difficult to assess. On the one hand his distribution is exquisite and for that reason alone you can't help but appreciate his game, but from the little I've watched you get the feeling he's an auxiliary partner when Dortmund isn't on the ball. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a liability, but perhaps sometimes that's what he becomes.

In short - would take him in my team - but less for his defense than other redeeming factors.


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Post by Zealous Mon May 27, 2013 11:47 am

Honestly don't rate him that highly (Not saying he isn't good mind you). He's not the type of CB that inspires confidence despite his skill set but I'd take him on my team because he is better than most. However when people talk about elite CBs he is not the first name to pop into my head.



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Post by jibers Mon May 27, 2013 12:32 pm

Said this earlier. Good defender, but has an error. It seems if you can pass more than 4 m you become a WC cb. As a defender Subotic is superior. I stand by that.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 27, 2013 2:22 pm

jibercus wrote:Said this earlier. Good defender, but has an error. It seems if you can pass more than 4 m you become a WC cb. As a defender Subotic is superior. I stand by that.

Subotic is just as error prone and he proved it in the final and has done on many occasions.

Difference is Subotic is more aggressive so he gives the impression he's a better defender.

Just like Vidic gave the impression he was a better defender than Rio when he never really was.

Hummels wasn't anything special in the final but both Subotic and Dante were worse and both made glaring errors while Hummels didn't.

The double standards with Subotic and Hummels is getting a bit annoying tbh just because he's hyped more and is more talented he is treated differently.

If Hummels did what Subotic did for the first goal and left Hummels out to dry with his god awful decision making giving Robben acres of space to create the goal we would never hear the end of it.

Yet its never mentioned.
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Post by dostoevsky Mon May 27, 2013 2:58 pm

I disagree that there was a startling difference between Subotic and Hummels in their performances on Saturday Mole, I felt that Hummels had positional issues during the final, he lost track of certain runs and pushed up at the wrong times - though the organisation of the whole defence is concerned here - which are similar charges as you are levelling at Subotic. Whether they were punished or not is of little consequence to the severity of the errors made.

All of Dante, Hummels and Subotic are excellent defenders who are ranked very highly amongst their peers, however all had performances to forget. It simply reflects in my mind their relative youth - none of these defenders can be said to yet be close to their primes - and the quality of the attacks they were confronting. These were performances that were nothing to write home about, but who hasn't had a big game like that this year, Thiago Silva aside?
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon May 27, 2013 3:05 pm

@dostoevsky wrote:I disagree that there was a startling difference between Subotic and Hummels in their performances on Saturday Mole, I felt that Hummels had positional issues during the final, he lost track of certain runs and pushed up at the wrong times - though the organisation of the whole defence is concerned here - which are similar charges as you are levelling at Subotic. Whether they were punished or not is of little consequence to the severity of the errors made.

All of Dante, Hummels and Subotic are excellent defenders who are ranked very highly amongst their peers, however all had performances to forget. It simply reflects in my mind their relative youth - none of these defenders can be said to yet be close to their primes - and the quality of the attacks they were confronting. These were performances that were nothing to write home about, but who hasn't had a big game like that this year, Thiago Silva aside?

Do agree but i never said there is a startling difference because there isn't....

But there is a startling difference between how the two performances were perceived and how the two are rated as there is much more leniency towards Subotic than there is towards Hummels.
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Post by dostoevsky Mon May 27, 2013 3:23 pm

Fair enough, I would agree with that, though some of the opinions expressed have been more general and extend beyond the final. I feel that the growing criticism of Hummels has become like a rolling stone gathering momentum, which has its origins in performances such as for Germany which are separate from the career of the Subotic-Hummels partnership.

The perception of Hummels has been dramatically altered by the succession of important games in which they have arrived rather than an attack for a single occasion. In that sense, I wouldn't necessarily classify all of the attacks as a double standard, though some are. Subotic is in part protected by the fact that the spotlight isn't on him in the international arena however and thus doesn't have the history, though I do agree that as a general rule, the hype machine is definitely affecting the way in which their seasons are being judged. In a way, it is only fair that Subotic is being given greater attention now, however that too will resolve itself as people will start to subject him to the same scrutiny as Mats.

Needless to say, I would welcome either at Milan and they would both stroll into many top line-ups. Regardless of the impression that Hummels has been exposed this season, I do believe that he is continuing to improve. His distribution has been an issue in the final and semis however, not simply in instances such as the Madrid backpass. There have been about a dozen extremely poor decisions on the ball made by him over these last two stages of the Champions League and they have been often enough to cause genuine concern. It will come with experience, however one can be too confident on the ball at times, particularly playing out from defence. It is exacerbated to an extent by the weight of responsibility placed on his shoulders given that he has little help in this regard.
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Post by Fuchsteufelswild Mon May 27, 2013 11:38 pm

Him not being fit and in form most season (not in the final either) is the reason Dortmund's defense declined so much in the Bundesliga. It was a massive decline compared to previous seasons. That should be a hint to how influential he is. This thread is full of knee jerk.
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Post by McLewis Tue May 28, 2013 1:15 am

ehhh I wouldn't just blame his fitness though. Even when in form, he still is prone to a misstep or two. And often at inopportune times, which is really just bad luck. I think he's a great player, but only a good defender. Not WC at anything in particular yet, but a cut above most defenders his age and at this stage in his career, that must be said.
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