Is Juve a top team now?

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:18 pm

How does that not make sense, please read my posts.

I'm going by what teams have came up against and how they have performed.

You're looking at this using nothing but how far teams have gotten in the CL.

Juventus drew the absolute NUMBER 1 top team in Europe. We got knocked out.

If Juventus drew Galatasaray, knocked them out and Barca got knocked out by Bayern in the last 16 it wouldn't make Juventus better than Barcelona.

How far you get is mostly down to the luck of the draw.

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Post by CBarca Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:20 pm

Who cares how they did vs Bayern compared to Barca...they still lost. Scoreline or not they're not doing any better than Barca, because it's the same result.

Instead if you want to rate them, you should look at what they have achieved recently and compare it to other teams.

Not understanding the logic in this thread.
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Post by Doc Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:21 pm

Judging how teams have done in recent past in both Europe and domestic, Barcelona would still be pretty much on top with Bayern on their heels.
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Post by izzy Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:22 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:How does that not make sense, please read my posts.

I'm going by what teams have came up against and how they have performed.

You're looking at this using nothing but how far teams have gotten in the CL.

Juventus drew the absolute NUMBER 1 top team in Europe. We got knocked out.

If Juventus drew Galatasaray, knocked them out and Barca got knocked out by Bayern in the last 16 it wouldn't make Juventus better than Barcelona.

How far you get is mostly down to the luck of the draw.

But your using how far you got and who you lost to as a way to make yourselves seem better than you are.

Really, the majority of people on this forum wouldn't put Juve on the same level as Barca based on this season, that's just not how people rate and judge teams on this forum.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:27 pm

At the end of the day you're saying we don't belong in the lower end of the top tier of European teams because we

A) Got knocked out by Bayern
B) We haven't done anything in Europe lately.

And i'm saying what our last squad done has absolutely no relation to how good our current team is. Yes if you want to make a list of the top clubs in the past 10 years then by all means, take Juventus out and Add in Inter Milan, Ac Milan and Liverpool. But i'm talking about the present day.

And the only thing this new Juventus squad have really done wrong is get outclassed by the best team in Europe. Which is something which Barca have just suffered to an even larger degree. Yet Juventus were called Vastly overrated.

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Post by izzy Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:31 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:At the end of the day you're saying we don't belong in the lower end of the top tier of European teams because we

A) Got knocked out by Bayern
B) We haven't done anything in Europe lately.


And i'm saying what our last squad done has absolutely no relation to how good our current team is. Yes if you want to make a list of the top clubs in the past 10 years then by all means, take Juventus out and Add in Inter Milan, Ac Milan and Liverpool. But i'm talking about the present day.

And the only thing this new Juventus squad have really done wrong is get outclassed by the best team in Europe. Which is something which Barca have just suffered to an even larger degree. Yet Juventus were called Vastly overrated.


Yes, that's all I care about.

I understand that it is a completely different team Juve has, but i'm not going to put them up there with Madrid, Barca and United based on this season.

I need to see some consistency from this group. It's just like Madrid in 09/10 and 10/11. Sure we were a new team from the shambles of the 08/09 season but we have had to earn such high ratings based on consist performances in Europe and in the league for 3 years, not based on 1 singular season.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:33 pm

Fair enough, if you want to see Juventus do it again until you put them up there then that's fine. But you shouldn't dismiss Juventus as being inferior to that group of teams because we're new on the scene.

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Post by izzy Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:36 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Fair enough, if you want to see Juventus do it again until you put them up there then that's fine. But you shouldn't dismiss Juventus as being inferior to that group of teams because we're new on the scene.


I only dismissed them because some fans we over the top. I expect Juve to be in the quarters next year as well and maybe even further. But I need to see it first before I consider them one of the elite teams in Europe.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:41 pm

That's fine by me. You're putting them in the "Possibly as good as the other top teams (Bar Bayern) but I'll need to see them keep it up first" bracket.

But too many people pretty much dismissed us as a top team because we got shown up by Bayern. And this annoyed me because losing to the best team in Europe should not have such a negative impact on the opinion of a club. And I was even more pissed off after Barca go and lose by twice the amount of goals and have 1 single shot on goal.

It just re-enforces my point that losing to Bayern does not put you out of the 'top team' bracket. Because if it did then Barca would be very far removed from being a 'top team' themselves. Which is obviously not the case.
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Post by Adrian0911 Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:45 pm

i'm only gonna say this once...and i won't continue the argument cuz it's late in my country..and i extremely tired.

izzy..while i do agree with a few of you points....

following your logic man utd are in a class so low even lyon, valencia and schalke are above them...as in europe they were very inconsistent in the last 2-3 years.
and also puts the same teams (schalke, valencia) above juventus.

i'm not claiming juve are better than Barca because of this game. but not agreeing they are again a top team (not word class) is just wrong.
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Post by izzy Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:50 pm

Adrian0911 wrote:i'm only gonna say this once...and i won't continue the argument cuz it's late in my country..and i extremely tired.

izzy..while i do agree with a few of you points....

following your logic man utd are in a class so low even lyon, valencia and schalke are above them...as in europe they were very inconsistent in the last 2-3 years.
and also puts the same teams (schalke, valencia) above juventus.

i'm not claiming juve are better than Barca because of this game. but not agreeing they are again a top team (not word class) is just wrong.

I understand what you're saying.

I do think Juve are a top team, but not part of the elite because I need to see more from them in Europe in the next few years.
I put United up there because they have consistently been in the final and semis for the past few years.

Judging by this year, people would be saying that Malaga are better than United and that's just not right at all.
Consistency is key. Anybody can have a good year, maintaining it is what the elite teams do.
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Post by M99 Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:03 pm

FFS Juve fans Laughing Go back to saying T Silva is overrated and Barzagli, Chiellini and Bonucci are all better than him. At least that was entertaining.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:05 pm

Pls M99. Anything you have to say regarding Juventus is null and void after the rubbish you come out with.
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Post by M99 Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:08 pm

What rubbish? That Thiago Silva in better than Juve defenders?
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Post by Swanhends Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:10 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Anything you have to say regarding Juventus is null and void after the rubbish you come out with

Also applies to juve fans from the perspective of the rest of the forum Laughing
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Post by jibers Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:11 pm

Juve are a top team.

The 6 best teamsin Europe Are the two Spanish, The tow German, Juve and United. Bayern are just a level above everyone atm

The difference between the other 5 is not that big.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:31 pm

Swanhends wrote:
AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Anything you have to say regarding Juventus is null and void after the rubbish you come out with

Also applies to juve fans from the perspective of the rest of the forum Laughing


Please provide me with examples where most of my posts are aimed at trolling every other club in the section. I said that to m99 because most of his posts regarding Juventus are purely aimed at trolling Juventus fans.
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Post by djfawnz Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:34 am

izzy wthell are you talking about?

you want some hard proven facts?
49 or something undefeated streak in serie a, which if you are a unbiased and wise person, would already know that serie a is the most dificult and tactical league of the top 5 best leagues.
Won the league undefeated with the best defense of all the top 5 leagues, period. that is something that will stay on juventus history and all football for life son
First italian team with private owned stadium
On the way of winning our second scudetto
Went 19 games undefeated on Europe.
This year we probably had one of the best defense in CL statwise
We have 6 first starting national team players who went to Euro Finals
We topped the 2nd group of death and made history by disqualifying a champions winner in group stages.

Oh and before any of you haters start talking that Juve doesnt have any competitors in the league, last year Milan had everybody.....


Ooooh and before u start saying that Chelsea sucks and blabla, when we played them, they were considered a force to be reckon with, now that the season has passed we have seen that they are not having a good season but in September-November nobody was thinking that.

Peace out
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Post by djfawnz Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:39 am

M99, i havent ever read in our Juve forums someone saying a stupid thing as TS is inferior to Juve's defender.

THiago is like a 9.5 on a scale from 1 to 10, Bon and Chiello are wandering in the scale from 8 to 9

Now for me, in terms of defending, just actual defending, man-marking and positional sense, Andrea Barzagli is the best italian defender right now

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Post by Zealous Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:47 am

Barca and Juventus have obvious weaknesses imo. Barca are shambles at the back and Juventus's front line can be shut down if their midfield is closed down effectively.

Obviously both are great teams but the fact that their weaknesses can be exploited is the reason they lost to Bayern.

At the risk of sounding like captain hindsight I think Juventus were definitely being over rated before the Bayern tie. However Juventus are obviously still a top team and one of the best out there. The problem is their weakness was too easily exposed in the Bayern tie.
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Post by izzy Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:52 am

djfawnz wrote:izzy wthell are you talking about?

you want some hard proven facts?
49 or something undefeated streak in serie a, which if you are a unbiased and wise person, would already know that serie a is the most dificult and tactical league of the top 5 best leagues.
Won the league undefeated with the best defense of all the top 5 leagues, period. that is something that will stay on juventus history and all football for life son
First italian team with private owned stadium

On the way of winning our second scudetto
Went 19 games undefeated on Europe.
This year we probably had one of the best defense in CL statwise
We have 6 first starting national team players who went to Euro Finals
We topped the 2nd group of death and made history by disqualifying a champions winner in group stages.

Oh and before any of you haters start talking that Juve doesnt have any competitors in the league, last year Milan had everybody.....


Ooooh and before u start saying that Chelsea sucks and blabla, when we played them, they were considered a force to be reckon with, now that the season has passed we have seen that they are not having a good season but in September-November nobody was thinking that.

Peace out

Are you out of your mind?

Let me break down all that garbage.
I don't give a fck if you went unbeaten in Serie A. I don't care. On the European stage, you've proven fck all. Zilch. Nothing and after one season some of you Juve fans have the nerve to sit here and tell me you are part of the elite clubs in Europe? That you are on par with Barca, Madrid or United? What a joke.

The stuff in red, I won't even get into because that has nothing to do with club and European pedigree. What has it got to do as your status as an elite team on the European stage?

This is your FIRST YEAR back in I don't know and you think your up there with the best because you beat the worst Chelsea team in 8 years? Because you beat Shakhtar and some other unknown in that group? Oh please.
And fyi, I don't rate Chelsea, haven't done for 2 years now. Don't care that they won the CL last year, they are fcking horrible and are showing slow signs of actually improving.

That stupid 19 games unbeaten stat is garbage. Why did you leave out that some of those games were in the EL? You know, the creme de la creme of European football. Rolling Eyes

How about, Juve actually show some damn consistency in Europe for 2-3 years and get to the latter stages and THEN maybe we can start having this conversation on whether they are up with the elite because of right now, they ain't.

You trying to sit there and tell me because you beat a washed up Chelsea, a decent Shakhtar and some unknown team and fcking Celtic that you're on the elite level? Because you own your own ground and players that play for international teams (duh, who doesn't) you're part of the elite?

Get the fck outta here with that BS.
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Post by Swanhends Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:55 am

djfawnz wrote:you want some hard proven facts?

djfawnz wrote:serie a, which if you are a unbiased and wise person, would already know that serie a is the most dificult and tactical league of the top 5 best leagues.

pick one.
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Post by Kaladin Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:59 am

izzy wrote:
djfawnz wrote:izzy wthell are you talking about?

you want some hard proven facts?
49 or something undefeated streak in serie a, which if you are a unbiased and wise person, would already know that serie a is the most dificult and tactical league of the top 5 best leagues.
Won the league undefeated with the best defense of all the top 5 leagues, period. that is something that will stay on juventus history and all football for life son
First italian team with private owned stadium

On the way of winning our second scudetto
Went 19 games undefeated on Europe.
This year we probably had one of the best defense in CL statwise
We have 6 first starting national team players who went to Euro Finals
We topped the 2nd group of death and made history by disqualifying a champions winner in group stages.

Oh and before any of you haters start talking that Juve doesnt have any competitors in the league, last year Milan had everybody.....


Ooooh and before u start saying that Chelsea sucks and blabla, when we played them, they were considered a force to be reckon with, now that the season has passed we have seen that they are not having a good season but in September-November nobody was thinking that.

Peace out

Are you out of your mind?

Let me break down all that garbage.
I don't give a fck if you went unbeaten in Serie A. I don't care. On the European stage, you've proven fck all. Zilch. Nothing and after one season some of you Juve fans have the nerve to sit here and tell me you are part of the elite clubs in Europe? That you are on par with Barca, Madrid or United? What a joke.

The stuff in red, I won't even get into because that has nothing to do with club and European pedigree. What has it got to do as your status as an elite team on the European stage?

This is your FIRST YEAR back in I don't know and you think your up there with the best because you beat the worst Chelsea team in 8 years? Because you beat Shakhtar and some other unknown in that group? Oh please.
And fyi, I don't rate Chelsea, haven't done for 2 years now. Don't care that they won the CL last year, they are fcking horrible and are showing slow signs of actually improving.

That stupid 19 games unbeaten stat is garbage. Why did you leave out that some of those games were in the EL? You know, the creme de la creme of European football. Rolling Eyes

How about, Juve actually show some damn consistency in Europe for 2-3 years and get to the latter stages and THEN maybe we can start having this conversation on whether they are up with the elite because of right now, they ain't.

You trying to sit there and tell me because you beat a washed up Chelsea, a decent Shakhtar and some unknown team and fcking Celtic that you're on the elite level? Because you own your own ground and players that play for international teams (duh, who doesn't) you're part of the elite?

Get the fck outta here with that BS.

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Post by jibers Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:05 am

Anyone that doesn't think Juventus is a top team is quite frankly deluded. Top 6 team in Europe. The difference between them and all the othes bar Bayern is not that much.
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Post by gnrfan Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:14 am

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:How does that not make sense, please read my posts.

I'm going by what teams have came up against and how they have performed.

You're looking at this using nothing but how far teams have gotten in the CL.

Juventus drew the absolute NUMBER 1 top team in Europe. We got knocked out.

If Juventus drew Galatasaray, knocked them out and Barca got knocked out by Bayern in the last 16 it wouldn't make Juventus better than Barcelona.

How far you get is mostly down to the luck of the draw.

I'm a juve fan myself man, but going on performance dortmund would beat us quiet handily. They'd press pirlo out of the match, and our "strikeforce" wouldn't do jackshit. We need a serious infusion of quality up top before we can put our selves in this company.
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Post by jibers Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:16 am

gnrfan wrote:
AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:How does that not make sense, please read my posts.

I'm going by what teams have came up against and how they have performed.

You're looking at this using nothing but how far teams have gotten in the CL.

Juventus drew the absolute NUMBER 1 top team in Europe. We got knocked out.

If Juventus drew Galatasaray, knocked them out and Barca got knocked out by Bayern in the last 16 it wouldn't make Juventus better than Barcelona.

How far you get is mostly down to the luck of the draw.

I'm a juve fan myself man, but going on performance dortmund would beat us quiet handily. They'd press pirlo out of the match, and our "strikeforce" wouldn't do jackshit. We need a serious infusion of quality up top before we can put our selves in this company.

Currently

Level 1 Bayern
Level 2 Dortmund
Level 3 Real Madrid Barcelona Juventus Manchester United
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