"Muslims Should be Put Under Surveillance"

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Post by Cruijf Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:45 pm

Peter King said on Saturday that police must, "realize that the threat is coming from the Muslim community and increase surveillance there."

That wasn't even the best part though.

"We can’t be politically correct. I think we have to see, has radicalization extended into the Chechen community?"

And that's hilarious even before you realize that radicalization isn't an actual word...

Full article: http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/20/after-boston-we-should-put-muslims-under-surveillance-says-rep-king/

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Post by Swanhends Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:52 pm

This coming from the guy who was a well-known open supporter of the IRA for decades

Dat special top-of-the-line hypocrisy that can only be found in the U.S Congress Proud
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Post by RealGunner Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:59 pm

God forbid the day Republicans come into power
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Post by RedOranje Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:18 am

RealGunner wrote:God forbid the day Republicans come into power

Republicans aren't on the whole so bad... it's the Tea Party candidates that should worry you.
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Post by •MilanDevil• Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:40 am

I am glad that I am part of goal legacy, most if not all posters are very well educated. Go to yahoo news and look at the comments, so much hate in them, and you cannot reason with people.

Many, people don't realize that muslims also experience terrorism in countries like Iraq (my ethnic background). The meaning of terrorism has become associated with muslims only. I believe that ignorance is the greatest evil of all, many people call Islam a terrorist promoting religion without even reading the Quran. On the other side, this same ignorance is used to make what are called "Muslim" terrorists, they do not understand the religion and are influenced by bad personalities to achieve their goals, basically these "muslim" terrorists are tools and they are vulnerable due to their ignorance.

It is absurd if you think about it, these terrorists are not muslims, they only claim to be. It is just like me going into an island with a tribe that has no communication with the outside world. I harm their people and claim to be an American (just an example), in the minds of the people on that island, all americans are considered as terrorists. The difference between this and the real world is that in the US, people do have the resources to explore the outside world yet they choose not to, because of their ignorance.

People must understand, Terrorism has no religion

P.S. I have posted a video related to such topic in the life section, the thread is called I just want to share this.
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Post by TalkingReckless Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:01 am

milan you think yahoo comments are bad go read cnn ones, i feel ashamed calling them humans
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:39 am

Canada foils 'al-Qaeda linked' terror attack on train

wo foreign men living in Canada have been charged with plotting a terrorist attack on a passenger train with support from al-Qaeda elements in Iran.

The authorities say suspects Chiheb Esseghaier, 30, and Raed Jaser, 35, were arrested in Montreal and Toronto on Monday.

They allegedly planned to derail a passenger train in the greater Toronto area, but it is not clear when.

Iran has denied any link to the suspects being held in Canada.

Iranian foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast told a press conference that the politics of extremists did not conform with those of Iran.

He accused Canada of following an "Iranophobic" project over the past few years.

The two suspects will appear in court on Tuesday for a bail hearing.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) said the surveillance operation leading to the arrests was "a result of extensive collaborative efforts".

It said that FBI agents from the US were involved in helping to foil the attack.

The RCMP said the two men were not Canadian citizens and were supported by "al-Qaeda elements in Iran" although there was no evidence of state sponsorship.

Their plan was to derail a train operated by VIA Rail and "kill and hurt people".

RCMP Chief Superintendent Jennifer Strachan said the attack was "definitely in the planning stage but not imminent".

"We are alleging that these two individuals took steps and conducted activities to initiate a terrorist attack," she said.

"They watched trains and railways in the Greater Toronto area."

Chief Supt Strachan did not say if the route being targeted was a cross-border route with the US.

RCMP Assistant Commissioner James Malizia said: "Each and every terrorist arrest the RCMP makes sends a message and illustrates our strong resolve to root out terrorist threats and keep Canadians and our allies safe."

VIA Rail, which operates passenger rail services across Canada, said that "at no time" were passengers or members of the public in imminent danger.

There was no connection between the plot and last week's Boston Marathon bombings, a US justice department official was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

Canadian Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said the arrests showed that terrorism continued to be a real threat to Canada.

"Canada will not tolerate terrorist activity and we will not be used as a safe haven for terrorists or those who support terrorist activity," he said in parliament.
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Post by kiranr Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:56 am


There have been a number of civilians (possibly republicans) calling for banning muslim immigration after the Boston bombing. So, this is not an isolated view in the United States right now.
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Post by Raptorgunner Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:50 pm

Muslim community tipped off RCMP about terror plot

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/22/muslim-community-tipped-off-rcmp-about-terror-plot
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Post by RedOranje Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:38 pm

kiranr wrote:
There have been a number of civilians (possibly republicans) calling for banning muslim immigration after the Boston bombing. So, this is not an isolated view in the United States right now.

In a nation of the US's size (population and geographic) and plurality there will always be extreme views. They are still a fairly small minority though, so please don't attempt to make it seem as though it's a significant portion of the US population or government.
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Post by Cruijf Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:09 pm

RedOranje wrote:
kiranr wrote:
There have been a number of civilians (possibly republicans) calling for banning muslim immigration after the Boston bombing. So, this is not an isolated view in the United States right now.

In a religion of Islam's size (population and geographic) and plurality there will always be extreme views. They are still a fairly small minority though, so please don't attempt to make it seem as though it's a significant portion of the Muslim population.

A few small changes, and you have what every Muslim has been trying to say to the West for decades. And yet, we still have people that think the problem is rooted in ethnicity or a belief system.
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Post by RedOranje Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:17 pm

ACMRox wrote:
RedOranje wrote:
kiranr wrote:
There have been a number of civilians (possibly republicans) calling for banning muslim immigration after the Boston bombing. So, this is not an isolated view in the United States right now.

In a religion of Islam's size (population and geographic) and plurality there will always be extreme views. They are still a fairly small minority though, so please don't attempt to make it seem as though it's a significant portion of the Muslim population.

A few small changes, and you have what every Muslim has been trying to say to the West for decades. And yet, we still have people that think the problem is rooted in ethnicity or a belief system.

And yet a significant portion of the US populace understand that, it's merely that those that do not comprehend the nuances of religions/cultures/populations tend to receive more attention from the media and internet.

Each of these arguments works both ways. YOUR argument works both ways. I have already REPEATEDLY said this, so it's a mystery to me why you continue to follow my posts with these replies.
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Post by Cruijf Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:01 am

RedOranje wrote:
ACMRox wrote:
RedOranje wrote:

In a religion of Islam's size (population and geographic) and plurality there will always be extreme views. They are still a fairly small minority though, so please don't attempt to make it seem as though it's a significant portion of the Muslim population.

A few small changes, and you have what every Muslim has been trying to say to the West for decades. And yet, we still have people that think the problem is rooted in ethnicity or a belief system.

And yet a significant portion of the US populace understand that, it's merely that those that do not comprehend the nuances of religions/cultures/populations tend to receive more attention from the media and internet.

Each of these arguments works both ways. YOUR argument works both ways. I have already REPEATEDLY said this, so it's a mystery to me why you continue to follow my posts with these replies.

Firstly, my post was not a reply to yours, nor in conflict or contradiction to it. I was merely using your wording to prove the point that most people in this thread have repeated: That violence has not ethnicity.

Secondly, I'm not 'continuing' to follow your posts with this response. I once made the same point in the God thread to counter someone who claimed religion causes violence, chaos, etc. Heck, I don't even remember if you were in that conversation.

So you're annoyance really baffles me. I'm not disagreeing with you, not am I being repetitive.
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Post by RedOranje Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:28 am

Repeating my point is by definition repetitive. Doing it more than once is by definition repetitive. The annoying part really is self-explanatory.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:00 am

I dont get how anyone can deny that traditional islam is violent when it comes to public discourse, it just means that they are either ignorant or lying to themselves.

Traditional islam does call for the use of force to apply homogenous morality and barely allows for any diversity, traditional Christianity or Judaism are not much better but they have been tamed by humanitarian values.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:57 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:I dont get how anyone can deny that traditional islam is violent when it comes to public discourse, it just means that they are either ignorant or lying to themselves.

Traditional islam does call for the use of force to apply homogenous morality and barely allows for any diversity, traditional Christianity or Judaism are not much better but they have been tamed by humanitarian values.

Load of Bullshit

Do me a favour. Stop pretending to know things you have no clue about.
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Post by Eupraxia Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:23 pm

Let's pretend that there is no states that executes it's atheist population and let's guess what religion of these states are? I'll give you a hint, Islam.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan ,Mauritania and the Maldives.

Some countries put atheists in jail, anyone would like to mount a guess what the religion of these countries are?
What about countries where gays can be jailed or even worst executed? Do I need to continue?

It is no doubt that states where inhumane laws are quite predominate, Islam somehow seems to be the ruling force and what's worst? You want to apply this 'law' to the world?

It's not a matter of whether Islam allows or forbids such actions, it's a matter that ONLY states where Islam is predominate such laws exist. I'd be happy of a version of Islam that is built on secular laws, but that can not exist.

Hi, I'm Eupraxia (I am a friend of Potential's, he told me about this site)
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:18 am

RealGunner wrote:
Yuri Yukuv wrote:I dont get how anyone can deny that traditional islam is violent when it comes to public discourse, it just means that they are either ignorant or lying to themselves.

Traditional islam does call for the use of force to apply homogenous morality and barely allows for any diversity, traditional Christianity or Judaism are not much better but they have been tamed by humanitarian values.

Load of Bullshit

Do me a favour. Stop pretending to know things you have no clue about.

Whats with the ad hominem attack?

Its my view point ,if you wish to counter it just discuss it like any person would in this kind of conversation.

There is a difference between muslims, islam and how muslims interpret islam.

Traditional islam views text and tradition as the source of most jurisprudence and policy, problem with text and tradition is that they come from 1400 years ago when states were built around tribalism and war and not civil society, institutions and trade. It simply does not fit in with the modern world and its why everyone views the muslims as strangers in this world and muslims themselves feel this way.

As a libertarian sharia or traditional islamic dictation of public policy and the state exemplifies the exact type of ideology I would fight against just as much as communism, if muslims dont want to differentiate between that and their religion then its their problem and they are projecting their fear and irrationality into the image of their religion. Which to be honest is not beneficial for anyone and is a crime against their religion before it is against the rest of the globe.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:22 am

Eupraxia wrote:Let's pretend that there is no states that executes it's atheist population and let's guess what religion of these states are? I'll give you a hint, Islam.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan ,Mauritania and the Maldives.

Some countries put atheists in jail, anyone would like to mount a guess what the religion of these countries are?
What about countries where gays can be jailed or even worst executed? Do I need to continue?

It is no doubt that states where inhumane laws are quite predominate, Islam somehow seems to be the ruling force and what's worst? You want to apply this 'law' to the world?

It's not a matter of whether Islam allows or forbids such actions, it's a matter that ONLY states where Islam is predominate such laws exist. I'd be happy of a version of Islam that is built on secular laws, but that can not exist.

Hi, I'm Eupraxia (I am a friend of Potential's, he told me about this site)

I agree with what you are saying and I think its important we keep vocalizing this and making sure our governments do something about this, attempts to criminalize or vilify such opinions will only lead to more and more abuses and violations of our god given rights as human beings.
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Post by Cruijf Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:17 pm

RedOranje wrote:Repeating my point is by definition repetitive. Doing it more than once is by definition repetitive. The annoying part really is self-explanatory.

Why must you always look for a conflict RO? I did not repeat your point. I stated a related point, using your wording, to thereby add to the discussion.
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Post by Cruijf Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:21 pm

Eupraxia wrote:Let's pretend that there is no states that executes it's atheist population and let's guess what religion of these states are? I'll give you a hint, Islam.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan ,Mauritania and the Maldives.

Some countries put atheists in jail, anyone would like to mount a guess what the religion of these countries are?
What about countries where gays can be jailed or even worst executed? Do I need to continue?

It is no doubt that states where inhumane laws are quite predominate, Islam somehow seems to be the ruling force and what's worst? You want to apply this 'law' to the world?

It's not a matter of whether Islam allows or forbids such actions, it's a matter that ONLY states where Islam is predominate such laws exist. I'd be happy of a version of Islam that is built on secular laws, but that can not exist.

Hi, I'm Eupraxia (I am a friend of Potential's, he told me about this site)

Aside from the fact that the only sentence that would hold any merit in a debate is your final one, how is this relevant? You're anti-Islam, I get it. You're anti-sharia, I get it. Why does that mean anyone who follows it should be PUT UNDER SURVEILLANCE?

You say Islam violates human rights. Sure. That's completely false, but it's your opinion. Why share such an opinion in a discussion about preserving these very same human rights?
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Post by Cruijf Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:35 pm

Yuri Yukuv wrote:
Traditional islam views text and tradition as the source of most jurisprudence and policy, problem with text and tradition is that they come from 1400 years ago when states were built around tribalism and war and not civil society, institutions and trade. It simply does not fit in with the modern world and its why everyone views the muslims as strangers in this world and muslims themselves feel this way.

1. Traditional Islam most definitely fits in the modern world, and in fact is better than most(fact) if not all (opinion) modern governments. History has proven this time, and time again. You really need to read up on Islamic history.

2. You're judging traditional Islam by modern Islam. How on earth do you expect that logic to stand up to scrutiny?

3. The part I colored red is the part I found most off base/offensive. It's wrong. That's really all there is to say. I don't feel like a stranger in the modern world (at least not for the most part), and if you see a Muslim and think, "Wow, what a barbaric stranger to the modern world that is" then that's the philosophy that needs to go, not Islam. It's racism, flat out racism.
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Post by Eupraxia Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:51 pm

ACMRox wrote:
Eupraxia wrote:Let's pretend that there is no states that executes it's atheist population and let's guess what religion of these states are? I'll give you a hint, Islam.

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan ,Mauritania and the Maldives.

Some countries put atheists in jail, anyone would like to mount a guess what the religion of these countries are?
What about countries where gays can be jailed or even worst executed? Do I need to continue?

It is no doubt that states where inhumane laws are quite predominate, Islam somehow seems to be the ruling force and what's worst? You want to apply this 'law' to the world?

It's not a matter of whether Islam allows or forbids such actions, it's a matter that ONLY states where Islam is predominate such laws exist. I'd be happy of a version of Islam that is built on secular laws, but that can not exist.

Hi, I'm Eupraxia (I am a friend of Potential's, he told me about this site)

Aside from the fact that the only sentence that would hold any merit in a debate is your final one, how is this relevant? You're anti-Islam, I get it. You're anti-sharia, I get it. Why does that mean anyone who follows it should be PUT UNDER SURVEILLANCE?

You say Islam violates human rights. Sure. That's completely false, but it's your opinion.
Why share such an opinion in a discussion about preserving these very same human rights?


First of all, I never said Islam violates human rights, I may have hinted that sharia does though.
And now that you have mentioned it, and it's not an opinion, it's a fact. Only Muslim states violate these human rights that much.
Unless you can list five more countries who it's majority aren't Muslims that violates it's citizens basic human rights I will be free to debate morality on Islam.


Don't put words in my mouth, I never even mentioned that Muslims and surveillance

Other than postulating facts about me just as you do about your faith without even basic shred of proof. Also, I am not anti-islam. I have many Muslim friends, anti-sharia? Yes, because I will not accept a law in which opposes the most basic of human rights and if you do accept such a law? your morality is *bleep* up.
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Post by Cruijf Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:51 pm

Eupraxia wrote:

Don't put words in my mouth, I never even mentioned that Muslims and surveillance

Exactly my point.

This is a thread about the claim by a politician that Muslims should be put under surveillance. I (and numerous others in this discussion) said that this was racist and hypocritical (among other things).

By posting something that has nothing to do with the aforementioned discussion, you are derailing this thread.

But even if this wasn't irrelevant, it is still false.

Again, Sharia does not violate human rights and in fact protects them.

Therefore, you are making a false inference about a law and political system you are uneducated in. Furthermore, you are sharing this ignorant opinion in a thread that has nothing to with it.

That is all.
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Post by McLewis Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:18 pm

The sane folks know just how crazy Peter King is. This is par for the course from him and he's had a hard-on for the anti-muslim fervor for some time. This is no worse than what he said after 9/11 or the Fort Hood shootings.

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