FC Bayern - Juventus. The official matchday thread

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:46 pm

I think the reason Vidal was our best player is because our system in the CL (Which is horrible and ruins everything that made us the force we were last season) suits such a high-octane defensive midfielder.

If Conte wants to transform us into the ultimate catenaccio team then we'd better stop using Pirlo, recall Felipe Melo and swap Marchisio for De Jong ffs.

Absolutely NOT how we should be playing.

Vidal was the only player fitting of the Juventus shirt last night. Perhaps Chiellini too.

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Post by Targus Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:03 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:Dont lose hope

thanks man really great to hear that from an ac milan fan Thumbs up
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Post by S Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Also i have to say ,Bonucci can become the future captain of Juventus.He has those natural leadership abilities in him.
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Post by djfawnz Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Bonucci? LOL! Boy u cray'!

Bonucci is our worst defender from the back 3, its true he has evolved a lot these last 2 years to a really improved player but to me he is no way a future Captain for Juventus.....
Buffon
Chiellini
Marchisio

thats it.....
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Post by Eivindo Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:32 pm

Luca wrote:
DeviAngel wrote:Matri at least fought for the balls and won some duels, Quagliarella was invisible didn't even win a duel, lost all the balls and gave everything up.

Marchisio was trying his best to cover everywhere.

the main flop and biggest guilty person that we lost is Pirlo no1 else

Yeah.... that's just not true. I can think of three or four occasions when Quagliarella won a duel or dropped deep to press

Not that it matters, we're comparing SH*T with DIRT anyways

Razz Matri was horrible, I was shouting at him ffs, and one would think he could win some duels with his physique, but actually not
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Post by Arquitecto Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:11 pm

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:I think the reason Vidal was our best player is because our system in the CL (Which is horrible and ruins everything that made us the force we were last season) suits such a high-octane defensive midfielder.

If Conte wants to transform us into the ultimate catenaccio team then we'd better stop using Pirlo, recall Felipe Melo and swap Marchisio for De Jong ffs.

Absolutely NOT how we should be playing.

Vidal was the only player fitting of the Juventus shirt last night. Perhaps Chiellini too.
AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Pirlo was awful but like I've been discussing with Arq in the general section he's playing in a system that is the complete opposite of what he wants. He's literally being asked do a pure DM's job. He had no wing-backs to pass to, he's not allowed to keep the ball or dictate the play. Conte has Juventus playing too reserved in Europe. We need to stick with the pressure that worked for us last season and not letting teams with amazing attacks have the ball and playing attack vs defence.

This. I would be more frustrated as a Juve fan using a suicidal system which Conte insists on using instead of the system that Conte has worked to build for years, and has been the mark of his tactical revolution.

Marchisio in that role was a waste, using Pirlo again in this system pure laughable as there is a reason why Vidal was comfortable yesterday as he is the only one who can perform in this system alongside Padoin, Giacch and Pepe.

It is why I don't blame ANYONE individually bar Buffon for the first goal.

Bonnuci? He must be given praise as he showed that he can be elite amongst the top level of CBs and was Juventus' best player by a mile.
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Post by Luca Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:24 pm

djfawnz wrote:Bonucci? LOL! Boy u cray'!

Bonucci is our worst defender from the back 3, its true he has evolved a lot these last 2 years to a really improved player but to me he is no way a future Captain for Juventus.....
Buffon
Chiellini
Marchisio

thats it.....

Bonucci will only continue to improve. He definitely has the characteristics to be the captain of a team. But with Chiellini who is undoubtedly the leader of that defense, it wouldn't happen

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Post by Casciavit Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:36 pm

I was impressed by Bonnuci yesterday, thought he had a decent game.
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Post by The Nature Boy Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:58 pm

Im really confused here.

Most of you guys were saying (as much as I was) that it was a tactical masterclass by conte to play the anti-possession game like we did against Celtic. We looked great at letting another team play with the ball and we looked even better converting the few chances that we had during the 180 minutes.

You can't have it both ways. Im not trying to call anyone out or anything, but I don't really think this has anything to do with a system. It has more to do with the fact that our players looked scared, intimidated, and not ready mentally for the challenge before them.

Even if we do play the same system, expect a huge difference in the return leg.
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Post by S Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:03 pm

The Nature Boy wrote: It has more to do with the fact that our players looked scared, intimidated, and not ready mentally for the challenge before them.

This one comment is where i agree wholeheartedly and its where made the difference to the outcome of the game in my opinion.
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Post by juventus101 Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:29 pm

The whole defense had a good game. The only thing was, they were constantly marked heavily, so when Buffon tried to passbit out every time, Chiellini and especially Barzagli had some problems. Thats more Buffons fault for puttung them in those horrible positions than the defenders. It not like we ever got cut open. We didnt. We conceded off a luckydeflection that Buffon shouldve saved and an offside goal that came from a revound that again Buffon shouldve saved. The defense and Vidal did.not have bad games. The problem is we had no creativity up front, and with Pirlo and Marchisio having to drop so deep to githe.highly. pressured Chiellini and Barzagli a passing outlet, we had no creativity in the middle either. Thats why we improved so much when avucinic came on..Overall tho it was a poor performance, but we just need to forget about it and be ready in Turin to win. This is still a very winnable tie.
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Post by dronte Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:32 pm

The defense was good? What game were you watching? The only player who looked mature enough for the match in the defense was BONUCCI (seriously), both Barzagli and Chiellini made several mistakes which we probably haven't seen for ages. We were extremely lucky to get away with only 2 goals, they had many clear cut chances coming from 1) misplaced passes from the defense or Pirlo 2) flanks

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Post by juventus101 Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:39 pm

Did you only read the first sentence of my post. I said that they had a good game, hut meant defensively. Yes they had trouble passing but that was because Buffon out them in horrible situations, which is not their fault. And considering we wdrd under conztant pressure (since Quagz and Matri sucked, couldnt hold the ball up AT ALL so it went right back to Bayern), only conceding 2 is not bad. We're still in this. But Chiellini and Barzagli were not bad DEFENSIVELY, considering they were bombarded for 90 minutes. Peluso being useless didnt help Chiellini either fight off Robben AND Mandzukic.
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Post by Marchino28 Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:46 pm

juventus101 wrote:Did you only read the first sentence of my post. I said that they had a good game, hut meant defensively. Yes they had trouble passing but that was because Buffon out them in horrible situations, which is not their fault. And considering we wdrd under conztant pressure (since Quagz and Matri sucked, couldnt hold the ball up AT ALL so it went right back to Bayern), only conceding 2 is not bad. We're still in this. But Chiellini and Barzagli were not bad DEFENSIVELY, considering they were bombarded for 90 minutes. Peluso being useless didnt help Chiellini either fight off Robben AND Mandzukic.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:51 pm

No defense can withstand an onslaught with no break. When Chelsea won the CL Drogba carried the ball on his own and kept it up the pitch. Matri kept trying unlikely flicks and Quags didn't keep the ball either.


From front to back we were tactically lacking. I've went over it in more detail in the General section.
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Post by FilthyLuca Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:59 pm

The Nature Boy wrote:Im really confused here.

Most of you guys were saying (as much as I was) that it was a tactical masterclass by conte to play the anti-possession game like we did against Celtic. We looked great at letting another team play with the ball and we looked even better converting the few chances that we had during the 180 minutes.

You can't have it both ways. Im not trying to call anyone out or anything, but I don't really think this has anything to do with a system. It has more to do with the fact that our players looked scared, intimidated, and not ready mentally for the challenge before them.

Even if we do play the same system, expect a huge difference in the return leg.

We did jack the whole first half and he did nothing to change that at the break, he kept peluso on even though he was obviously out ofhisepth, and playing Pirlo every game not only wears him down, but shows that maybe his "tactical genius" is just having pirlo run the show an having better role players than the competition

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Post by The Nature Boy Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:29 pm

so your saying Pirlo is more important to the team than conte?
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Post by TrezeGent Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:54 pm

Lol at people criticizing Conte.

If he's to be criticized, it's because he got us get used to always win. He got a crap 7th place team and returned them to the Elite of Europe.

With less then 10 games coaching experience in CL, he lost to the most in form team in the world (at their own stadium). I just don't see what's there to criticize considering our attacking power.

Besides, we still have 90 more minutes at the Juventus Stadium. It's not over yet.
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Post by 7amood11 Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:11 pm

TrezeGent wrote:Lol at people criticizing Conte.

If he's to be criticized, it's because he got us get used to always win. He got a crap 7th place team and returned them to the Elite of Europe.

With less then 10 games coaching experience in CL, he lost to the most in form team in the world (at their own stadium). I just don't see what's there to criticize considering our attacking power.

Besides, we still have 90 more minutes at the Juventus Stadium. It's not over yet.

We all know that Conte is an incredible manager, and there is no shame in losing a Champions League tie with such an inexperienced squad against one of the best teams in the world. After all, Conte is a young manager, and this is just a game that he will learn a lot from.

However, when Conte does make a mistake, I think it definitely deserves to be talked about. Conte DID set up the team that was incredibly defensive. And while we cannot fault him for doing this because it worked incredibly well vs Celtic, it was painfully apparent from the first few touches of the game (even before Alaba's goal) that this system wasn't going to work vs Bayern. Their incessant pressing with Juve's players all over the place just wasn't going to work.

And yet Juve spent the majority of the game playing in the same, defensive, suicidal system, and only decided to change it very late into the game. It was a big mistake from Conte that was painfully obvious, and I hope he drastically changes the team's style of play for the 2nd leg.

Now, let me reiterate what I mentioned earlier so it doesn't go misunderstood. In no way am I discrediting Conte for his incredible contributions over the past 2 seasons. However, when he makes big mistakes, and making big mistakes is inevitable for managers as young as him, it is necessary to give constructive criticism.
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Post by djfawnz Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:03 pm

trezegent, he needs to be criticized, he is human after all and everybody makes mistakes. saying that, for me he needed to rest the starting players for Bayerns game....
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Post by FilthyLuca Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:20 pm

The Nature Boy wrote:so your saying Pirlo is more important to the team than conte?

That shouldnt even be a question

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Post by 7amood11 Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:29 pm

FilthyLuca wrote:
The Nature Boy wrote:so your saying Pirlo is more important to the team than conte?

That shouldnt even be a question

There is no way that Pirlo is more important to the team than Conte. What Conte did with Juventus was nothing short of incredible. Many other managers wouldn't have utilized Pirlo properly so he wouldn't even be playing at this level anyway.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:32 pm

Conte has been nothing short of wonderful for us, but nobody and I mean nobody should be above any form of criticism.

Conte got it wrong, and if you want to use Pirlo and make him the key man, which we have been doing for a long time then you can't even field him in this Catenaccio system. He's not athletic compared to most players due to his age, he's not fast, he's not going to hoof the ball away and he certainly isn't a ball-winner.

It's like playing momo sissoko in a possession based system where passing is key. We're taking a player and in this case our key player, and asking him to change his role completely. Which at 35 is not going to happen smoothly.
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Post by FilthyLuca Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:47 pm

7amood11 wrote:
FilthyLuca wrote:
The Nature Boy wrote:so your saying Pirlo is more important to the team than conte?

That shouldnt even be a question

There is no way that Pirlo is more important to the team than Conte. What Conte did with Juventus was nothing short of incredible. Many other managers wouldn't have utilized Pirlo properly so he wouldn't even be playing at this level anyway.

Pirlo is the only reason we matter, we look completely average without him, theres a reason he is 33 and conte still played him 2 days before the biggest game of the year, against arguably the strongest side in the world.

A) Cant take his accomplishments away from him, but Conte won a scudetto race, in which the only other two teams, whos core was old as dirt, and had European matches, while we played a game a week and still managed to barely win because all we could do is draw.
B) All this brilliance, has come with Pirlo there, who along with Xavi is the best playmaking midfielder in the world.
C)Pirlo hs been playing the same role for ten plus years and at his age no one is going to utilize him any other way. and he managed to do that on uesday as well
D)There is nothing INCREDIBLE about taking THAT team to 1st, considering the landscape in Serie A, the money we have because of the stadium, and oh yeah, we have arguably the best goalkeeper and playmaker in the world to start with. He won with a restocked Juve, not Genoa


He's done a good job, some managers *bleep* themselves just in squad selection (as he himself did last match) but in no way am i sure we found another Lippi or Trap,

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Post by DeviAngel Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Pirlo is not the reason that this team is so powerful and so great its Conte, Conte made us who we are so Conte is the key to this team. We can sell whoever we like and we will still play the same football with same hunger and still be up there until we have Conte
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Post by Fuzail Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:47 pm

Did not read everything but read enough of Conte being tactically inept haha what? Razz

Conte did nothing wrong, we were scared that is all and that is why I am mad at Pirlo and Buffon. Apart from them none of our players are used to pressure. They should have lifted the team after the first goal and they would have done the rest. But if your experienced players are acting like kids you lose to two stupid goals

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