For the "ref ruined the game" brigade(Nani's red card)

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Post by Stormer77 Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:33 am

Inter Milan had Thiago Motta sent off vs Barcelona in 2010 in controversial circumstances,Inter still found a way to progress.Ins't it a manager's job to prepare his starting XI and then prepare for the "what if's" of each individual player getting sent off or injured in winning or losing situations?

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Post by LeBéninois Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:17 am

Well, Refs are supposed to make good calls. IT's not because bad calls happened in the past that the managers have to plan a '' what if ''

I ever hear some people who are like '' a bad call for A team ?? it's fair as some years ago they did have one in their advantage '' :facepalm:
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Post by Zealous Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:32 am

Manchester folded like paper after the red. I was actually surprised how quickly they gave up.
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Post by Mamad Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:01 am

I think it was because of Modric. he came the same time as red card and he did change things for us. made us better.
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Post by Adrian0911 Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:08 am

Inter is an italian team and mourinho showed countless time in El Clasicos he knows how to park the bus and play fast counter attacks.

man utd philosophy is "attacking is the best defense" (and as a EPL team..shitty defense)...but otherwise they are not good at parking the bus and holding the score.
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Post by Jack Daniels Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:30 am

Adrian0911 wrote:Inter is an italian team and mourinho showed countless time in El Clasicos he knows how to park the bus and play fast counter attacks.

man utd philosophy is "attacking is the best defense" (and as a EPL team..shitty defense)...but otherwise they are not good at parking the bus and holding the score.
They were very compact and organized..

We never looked like scoring after that red card TBH..

Some teams just collapse after such circumstances.
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Post by Senor Penguin Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:32 am

Zealous wrote:Manchester folded like paper after the red. I was actually surprised how quickly they gave up.
Agreed. Especially given the fact that they were ahead with a goal already.

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Post by LeSwagg James Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:58 am

Like I said in the other thread.. Red card < Own goal. the latter always ends up in a goal for the opposing team.. Madrid were in a worse situation at first, then an opportunity to win the tie presented itself and we seized the moment, while United collapsed :coffee:


Last edited by Swagg on Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by S Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:22 pm

Serdar Tatli believes his refereeing compatriot has all-but-blown his chances of presiding over the Wembley showpiece following his controversial call on Tuesday

A Turkish former referee has claimed that Cuneyt Cakir's hopes of refereeing in the Champions League final have been dashed in the wake of his decision to send off Nani in the second leg of the last-16 tie between Manchester United and Real Madrid.

The 36-year-old official has been accused by some in the media of making the wrong call after he chose to dismiss the Portuguese winger for what he saw as an excessive high boot on Blancos full-back Alvaro Arbeloa.

Speaking after Tuesday's match, Serdar Tatli - a former Uefa referee - expressed his regret that Cakir's actions at Old Trafford may well have cost his compatriot the opportunity of presiding over a European curtain-raiser this season.

"Nani is looking for the ball. By the time Alvaro Arbeloa arrives, the Portuguese [Nani] doesn't even see him," he told NTVSpor.

"The action is definitely not deliberate. As his intention was to only play the ball, it should have been a yellow at the most.

"I am proud as a Turk to see Cuneyt at this stage, but he lowered his chances of a European Cup final last night [on Tuesday]."
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Post by ronalessi Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:05 pm

UEFA backs Champions League referee Cuneyt Cakir

"We have no problem with him," a Uefa spokesman said. "There are no issues for us regarding the sending off and we will wait for the official reports of the match delegate and the referee's observer, as is procedure. If they raise concerns then we will act."

Asked if Cakir was in any danger of not referring again during this season's Champions League, the spokesman added: "He remains on our list of officials."

Uefa has also confirmed that Nani will receive an automatic one-match European suspension following his red card and that United can appeal against the sanction only after the governing body's disciplinary panel has meet to discuss the issue when, it is possible, the suspension could be raised.

Cakir, meanwhile, flew back to Istanbul from Manchester on Wednesday morning and is scheduled to recommence refereeing duties in Turkey's Super Lig this weekend.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/mar/06/uefa-referee-cuneyt-cakir-nani
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Post by ronalessi Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:08 pm

UEFA will cogratulate Cuneyt Cakir for Man Utd performance

Former Premier League ref Graham Poll says Cuneyt Cakir can be proud of his performance in Manchester United’s Champions League defeat to Real Madrid.

The Turk sent off Nani in a decision which has been widely condemned.

Poll wrote in the Daily Mail: "Cakir was having a superb game. He was almost faultless in the first half and despite the debate of the Nani red card he continued refereeing consistently through the game and would, I expect, be congratulated by UEFA on his performance.

"Unlike Rio Ferdinand, who could well face a charge for his sarcastic applauding in the face of Cakir after the final whistle."

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/poll-uefa-will-cogratulate-cuneyt-cakir-man-utd-performance-3853241#.UTc-uzCsh8E
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Post by abetelle Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:55 pm

It was sort of a karate kick to the head/upper body regardless of where he was looking. Kind of like the karate kick by De Jong? at the World Cup against the Spanish player. No card was given at the World Cup and everyone was up in arms.

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Post by Eivindo Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:57 pm

abetelle wrote:It was sort of a karate kick to the head/upper body regardless of where he was looking. Kind of like the karate kick by De Jong? at the World Cup against the Spanish player. No card was given at the World Cup and everyone was up in arms.

Well, Lopez hit Vidic in the head without getting the ball too. Was that a red card?
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Post by FalcaoPunch Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:01 pm

Lopez going out for the ball in that situation and missing and colliding with a player happens all the time. Show me an instance where a goalie got a red card for that in EPL,La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:02 pm

Not the same thing, de Jong was clearly attempting murder, Nani just made an unfortunate move for the ball.

Definite yellow, I don't even think the red is thaaaaaaaaat controversial, I saw the foul in a replay a few times, and it is kind of dangerous play. I would've given a yellow, but it's not like Nani got scandalously sent off after a dive or anything, it was a very harsh red card, but I understand why the ref gave it.
Wrong decision, but it did look pretty bad.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:07 pm

So because Inter performed a defensive masterclass for the ages its okay and Man Utd should of simply done the same thing?

Makes sense.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:32 pm

You shouldn't have to play with 10 men unless you deserved the red, this is flawed.



What I said to people I watched the game with last night is that it was an unfair Red, a bad decision. BUT, I've seen worse and it's not a completely baffling decision, just a shit one.
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Post by spanky Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:32 pm

love how milan fans are defending the red card decision so much considering their players *cough* flamini et co *cough* did similar things in recent history and got no booking or a yellow.

just one of many:



was at least 2x more severe than nani's, double standards?
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Post by buddytaller Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:51 pm

The same referee on the night showed Terry a red card for an innocuous foul on Sanchez, Chelsea were a goal down then, went down 2-0 yet still was able to draw 2-2 with Barcelona and qualify for the finals. United after the red card lost their shape and looked lost till Madrid scored twice. Ferguson should have changed the teams shape to counter the introduction of Modric, he didn't and it cost the team.
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Post by Stormer77 Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:19 pm

But surely you should do tactical planning? Or is that not in the EPL mentality compared to Italian teams?

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Post by The Franchise Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:24 pm

Nothing they could do tactically.

They played two banks of 4, which was the same as they played with 11.

The problem was, they now couldnt use Welbeck as an outlet so Madrids pressure was constant, when before it was in spells which could be broken by a Manchester Utd break, counter or set peice.

Now, with no way to attack, the ball kept coming back.

Inter could do that, because they didnt come to attack to begin with. It was the plan. Nothing changed after the red.

With Utd everything changed. They didnt have the mentality coming into the game simply to hold on.
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Post by izzy Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:28 pm

Stormer77 wrote:But surely you should do tactical planning? Or is that not in the EPL mentality compared to Italian teams?

Wigglesworth?

Anyway, I find it funny, the same people lamenting the decision are the same who praised Pepe's sending off 2 years ago.
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Post by Bellabong Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:33 pm

Dutch TV did a close up and Nani did see Arbeloa coming.
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Post by stevieg8 Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Can someone explain to me why it's such a big deal if he saw him or not? In the past few years we've seen numerous red cards get handed out when contact wasn't even made, simply because "the situation was dangerous." It doesn't get more dangerous than a high boot in the chest, regardless of intent or knowledge.

I don't think it was automatically a red card, and wouldn't have really had a problem with a yellow, but I don't see how it was as big a travesty as people were making it out to be. I've definitely seen much worse calls, this one seemed pretty borderline red/yellow to me.
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Post by guest7 Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:56 pm

This reminds me...

Wasn't harhar11 one of those who believed that Pepe's red card was fair becouse it was dangerous play? hmm

I can only imagine the outrage if Ramos or Pepe was the one who kung fu kicked Nani. I can guarantee you that most people would have thought it was a fair red.
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