Hugo Chavez dead at 58

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Post by McLewis Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:31 am

Say what you want about the man and what he stood for, but I'm not in the habit of celebrating the death of anyone like I've seen on most political forums following this news. Terrible stuff.

RIP.

What does this mean for Venezuela as a country now? hmm
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:45 am

We should never celebrate death. I am not as optimistic as others that this will help propel our values of individualism, freedom and choice in latin america.

For now it just seems that the Venezuelan left has just lost its most powerful weapon, however it is far from being the weaker party. With regards to the right they dont seem to be the most honest bunch either, and I dont blame most of latin america for not trusting their elite.

Somehow I have a feeling only vested interests will prevail, it just remains to be known if American vested interest will be part of the group.
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Post by RealGunner Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:19 am

A tragedy. Thoughts with the family of Chavez. R.I.P

He was a man i admired a lot.



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Post by stevieg8 Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:58 pm

RealGunner wrote:A tragedy. Thoughts with the family of Chavez. R.I.P

He was a man i admired a lot.




I don't believe in celebrating anyone's death, but I'm pretty surprised to hear non-Venezuelans have this opinion. He did a lot for the country domestically, absolutely, but has been incredibly harmful to the world through the organizations he's supported and his style of governance.

Definitely not someone I could ever be upset about losing.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:05 pm

While I understand the celebrations of his death I find them in bad taste.

Say what you will about Chavez but the fact is that he would not have been so popular or elected so many times had he not drastically improved the situation of the lowest class in Venezuela.

The real question, I think, is how long has he been dead for? Also I believe that since he never appeared at his confirmation Venezuelan constitution demands a re-election. Is this correct? Even if it is, would it happen?
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Post by stevieg8 Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:While I understand the celebrations of his death I find them in bad taste.

Say what you will about Chavez but the fact is that he would not have been so popular or elected so many times had he not drastically improved the situation of the lowest class in Venezuela.

The real question, I think, is how long has he been dead for? Also I believe that since he never appeared at his confirmation Venezuelan constitution demands a re-election. Is this correct? Even if it is, would it happen?

I agree. I don't like celebrating anyone's death, even if I feel it was deserved or necessary. And with Chavez, there was certainly good that he did for his country - denying that would be false.

That being said, I think the world is a better place without him.
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Post by 7amood11 Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:14 pm

Honestly, good riddance. Didn't like him at all, and I think the world is better off this way.
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Post by Swanhends Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:41 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:While I understand the celebrations of his death I find them in bad taste.

Say what you will about Chavez but the fact is that he would not have been so popular or elected so many times had he not drastically improved the situation of the lowest class in Venezuela.

The real question, I think, is how long has he been dead for? Also I believe that since he never appeared at his confirmation Venezuelan constitution demands a re-election. Is this correct? Even if it is, would it happen?

Election in 30 days apparently

Never a big fan of Chavez, but from the small amount I know about Venezuelan history - Suffice to say the country is about 100x better off now than they were pre-Chavez

Some of the stuff that went on in that country before him is just shocking
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Post by McAgger Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:22 am

Found this on fb

Hugo Chavez dead at 58 542708_523561707709906_1088379572_n

Laughing
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Post by Mamad Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:43 am

lol.
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:04 pm

Swanhends wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:While I understand the celebrations of his death I find them in bad taste.

Say what you will about Chavez but the fact is that he would not have been so popular or elected so many times had he not drastically improved the situation of the lowest class in Venezuela.

The real question, I think, is how long has he been dead for? Also I believe that since he never appeared at his confirmation Venezuelan constitution demands a re-election. Is this correct? Even if it is, would it happen?

Election in 30 days apparently

Never a big fan of Chavez, but from the small amount I know about Venezuelan history - Suffice to say the country is about 100x better off now than they were pre-Chavez

Some of the stuff that went on in that country before him is just shocking

Swanheads, can you expand on what happened in VZ pre-chavez?
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Post by RealGunner Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:26 pm

google Caracazo
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Post by Yuri Yukuv Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:10 pm

RealGunner wrote:google Caracazo

those kind of riots happened everywhere in the world at that time though. Tinamen Square an LA riots are just first two I can think of.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:59 pm

So Venezuela is doing swimmingly. Related to their current predicament, I saw this from 2008:

Thomas sowell wrote:
People on the left often use other countries as examples of things that we should do. If other countries have a government-run medical system, then we should have one too, they say. If other countries control prices, then we should control prices -- or so the reasoning goes.

Almost never is there any suggestion that we should first find out whether the actual results of the policies we are supposed to imitate are better or worse than what we already have.

There is in fact a lot that we can learn from other countries if we look at the actual consequences of some of the things we are being urged to do, instead of just assuming that we should automatically imitate what others are doing.

Studies have already shown that the waiting time before being able to get surgery is several times as long in a number of countries with government-run medical systems as in the United States. Modern medical technology like MRIs and CAT scans are also rarer in such countries.

Venezuela is currently giving us a lesson on the consequences of price controls. The government of leftist President Hugo Chavez has imposed price controls -- and seems to be surprised that lower prices have lead to reduced supplies, even though price controls have led to reduced supplies in countries around the world and for thousands of years.

There were price controls back in the days of the Roman Empire, under the Pharaohs in Egypt, and in ancient Babylon. There is plenty of history to look at, if we bother.

Price controls under the Roman Emperor Diocletian led to a decline in the supply of goods. The same thing happened under President Richard Nixon's price controls in the 1970s. It has happened in Zimbabwe within the past year.

Rent control laws led to housing shortages in Cairo -- and in Berkeley, Hanoi, Paris, and other cities around the world.

When price controls in Venezuela led to food shortages, Hugo Chavez accused companies of "hoarding" food. The emperor Diocletian was similarly accusatory when his price controls reduced supplies, many centuries ago.

Political leaders always find someone else to blame for the bad consequences of their own policies.

Hugo Chavez has blamed foreign owned companies for Venezuela's food shortages and threatened to "nationalize" them. This too is an old political game that seldom does the people of the country any good.

What is remarkable is how little interest there is among the media and among the public in how often and how consistently this has happened in the wake of price controls.

When politicians today say that they are going to "bring down the cost of medical care" or make housing "affordable," what are they talking about other than price controls?

Do we want a shortage of medical care? Do you want to have to wait for months for surgery -- and suffer needlessly in the meantime, as people do in Canada and Britain?

Behind these wonderful-sounding political "solutions" to our problems is the notion that businesses are just ripping us off with arbitrarily set prices, and that the government can make them stop.

It makes a nice story and it can get votes for politicians who play the role of saviors. But it makes little economic sense. Why do so many businesses have losses, and even go bankrupt, if they can set their prices wherever they want to?

It is not uncommon for companies on the Fortune 500 list to operate in the red. Back during the days of the Great Depression of the 1930s, corporations as a whole operated in the red two years in a row.

They were trying to keep from going under while Franklin D. Roosevelt was denouncing them as "economic royalists." FDR knew how to win elections, even if he didn't know how to get the country out of the Great Depression.

That political lesson has been learned all too well, as much of the strident, anti-business political rhetoric of this election year demonstrates.

Now if only the media and the public had some interest in learning the economic lesson!


http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2008/02/27/a_lesson_from_venezuela/page/full
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:42 am

I have many friends in the left and not one of them believes price controls actually work. Besides places like Venezuela and Argentina ( Sad ) these ideas have very much been abandoned.
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Post by Pedram Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:01 pm

Must be pretty hard to live in a country with inflation hovering around 63%.
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