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Post by Ion Creanga March 1st 2013, 20:18

If Sigmund Freud and his daughter were right about psychological projection (psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own negative attributes by ascribing them to the outside world instead.) than i have a good exercise for you to see what you love and what you hate/deny at yourself transposed to our passion for football...

The question is: what qualities do you love and what do you hate about a football player? It pretty much says what you like about yourself and what you don't... If i think at my example, i love tough and hard work footballers(Chiellini, Gattuso, De rossi etc) because i feel that they got most of what they received from the ... Compared to talent, hard work is being underestimated in life, people have the habit to think that they don't have enough talent to achieve their dream and get stucked by it and take it as excuse, it's in our human nature and we need to eliminate it.. that's why i appreciate players that work hard and have the belief that they can be the real thing without having a complex of lack of qualities...
Anothery type of footballer that i love is the composed, tactical master player that knows how to manage his energy level and makes good decisions on the pitch having a calm attitude (some good examples are pirlo, rooney, xavi).. I think that comes from my passion for maths and chess.. It's also the thing that i love about italy's nt, the fact that they are very well prepared tactical and mentally, they are saving their energy during tournaments in group stages, and in friendly games, and they reach their full potential in latter phases, they don't care about what press is gonna say after losing friendlies, they don't want to impress the crowd in games with smaller teams... And they know when to stop when they are having a good lead, it's never good to humiliate your opponent.. When i think about myself in life, that's the same, when i'm in a competition of any type (trying to hook a girl or trying to obtain a better grade in admission to collage collage)i don't like to make fun of my opponents, because i know there's always the possibility that i myself can end up like that...
What i don't like is flashy players like Ronaldinho who didn't work that hard, and could have reach more with their potential, but they reach a complacency level... that's probably what i hate at myslef when i consider to be better than others and don't work enough to reach higher objectives.

Please, some serious answers if you like the subject of the topic... I see here on goallegacy some original thinking and various type of members like Arquitecto, Tomjuve, Real Gunner, Devi,The Franchise, Juventude, Dostoevsky, Vlafy, Great Leader, Dostoevsky, Mclewis, Vibe etc actually so many users that have something interesting to share, that takes a long time to mention them .. and i'd like to hear them or any member who is patient to give an answer.
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Post by worms March 1st 2013, 23:02

tuddor wrote:If Sigmund Freud and his daughter were right about psychological projection (psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own negative attributes by ascribing them to the outside world instead.) than i have a good exercise for you to see what you love and what you hate/deny at yourself transposed to our passion for football...

The question is: what qualities do you love and what do you hate about a football player? It pretty much says what you like about yourself and what you don't... If i think at my example, i love tough and hard work footballers(Chiellini, Gattuso, De rossi etc) because i feel that they got most of what they received from the ... Compared to talent, hard work is being underestimated in life, people have the habit to think that they don't have enough talent to achieve their dream and get stucked by it and take it as excuse, it's in our human nature and we need to eliminate it.. that's why i appreciate players that work hard and have the belief that they can be the real thing without having a complex of lack of qualities...
Anothery type of footballer that i love is the composed, tactical master player that knows how to manage his energy level and makes good decisions on the pitch having a calm attitude (some good examples are pirlo, rooney, xavi).. I think that comes from my passion for maths and chess.. It's also the thing that i love about italy's nt, the fact that they are very well prepared tactical and mentally, they are saving their energy during tournaments in group stages, and in friendly games, and they reach their full potential in latter phases, they don't care about what press is gonna say after losing friendlies, they don't want to impress the crowd in games with smaller teams... And they know when to stop when they are having a good lead, it's never good to humiliate your opponent.. When i think about myself in life, that's the same, when i'm in a competition of any type (trying to hook a girl or trying to obtain a better grade in admission to collage collage)i don't like to make fun of my opponents, because i know there's always the possibility that i myself can end up like that...
What i don't like is flashy players like Ronaldinho who didn't work that hard, and could have reach more with their potential, but they reach a complacency level... that's probably what i hate at myslef when i consider to be better than others and don't work enough to reach higher objectives.

Please, some serious answers if you like the subject of the topic... I see here on goallegacy some original thinking and various type of members like Arquitecto, Tomjuve, Real Gunner, Devi,The Franchise, Juventude, Dostoevsky, Vlafy, Great Leader, Dostoevsky, Mclewis, Vibe etc actually so many users that have something interesting to share, that takes a long time to mention them .. and i'd like to hear them or any member who is patient to give an answer.

Probably intelligence,football intelligence that is.A player who can adapt to different situations in a game and even different positions if need be.
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Post by Onyx March 2nd 2013, 03:08

I don't think it's entirely possible to compare lifestyle qualities to footballing qualities. A hard working footballer shouldn't equate to a hard working person. A tactical footballer could be a hard working person as well, but not exactly a 'hard working footballer'.

In terms of qualities, I like players who are technical, tactical and intelligent.

I wouldn't say I hate any qualities, however I'm not a fan of target men, generic crossing wingers and players who aren't technical/kinda technical.

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Post by FennecFox7 March 3rd 2013, 03:48

I love fast, exciting players, who have alot of tricks in their arsenal.

That's the main reason i like ronaldo the most
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Post by Guest March 3rd 2013, 17:01

I really dig the thread, tuddor. I happen to know myself pretty well, so I am not sure how much insight this will give me, but I most certainly agree with the notion.

Growing up I was all about players who put everything into what they did (Gattuso) - I was not the biggest kid and I knew that I would have to work extra hard if I wanted to keep up. Heart, hard work and hustle: those were the three H's I lived by. It certainly worked for me as I normally managed to earn respect from the other players. Keep in mind that I did not watch/play football as a youth, I was normally playing basketball, baseball or gridiron football.

Love
Now that I have grown up and began to watch football, I truly appreciate intelligent players. The type of athlete who will remain on top of his game because they do not rely on their natural abilities. Things like composure, class and vision are probably the most important attributes to me.


Hate
I cannot stand for arrogance (although I understand it works for some people), laziness (no excuse for this one) and selfish players. Why play a team sport when you only care about yourself?


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Post by Ion Creanga March 3rd 2013, 22:50

THC 10 wrote:I really dig the thread, tuddor. I happen to know myself pretty well, so I am not sure how much insight this will give me, but I most certainly agree with the notion.

Growing up I was all about players who put everything into what they did (Gattuso) - I was not the biggest kid and I knew that I would have to work extra hard if I wanted to keep up. Heart, hard work and hustle: those were the three H's I lived by. It certainly worked for me as I normally managed to earn respect from the other players. Keep in mind that I did not watch/play football as a youth, I was normally playing basketball, baseball or gridiron football.

Love
Now that I have grown up and began to watch football, I truly appreciate intelligent players. The type of athlete who will remain on top of his game because they do not rely on their natural abilities. Things like composure, class and vision are probably the most important attributes to me.


Hate
I cannot stand for arrogance (although I understand it works for some people), laziness (no excuse for this one) and selfish players. Why play a team sport when you only care about yourself?

i like the fact that you read my entire post... I see you're interested in the self-development psychology and i appreciate it...

I'm a big fan of Gattuso too, i have him very high in my player's preference that come first in my mind , top 5 ( for me is 1.Chiellini 2.Pirlo 3. Gattuso 4. Marchisio 5. Zanetti <active players>).. I think the human's mission is to get the most out of what he has, and that's why i appreciate more hard workers and professional players who stay for long at the top of the game... And than comes composure for me, calm and decision making, that's why i appreciate players like Rooney who is a joy to watch. Also, i like players who comeback strong after defeats (Robben).. I don't know how many players in his situation(some cm close to become a Dutch legend and Bayern legend) would come again and again so strong mentally to challenge for trophies.

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Post by Casciavit March 5th 2013, 12:35

There are 3 types of players that I absolutely love.

The ball winning DM. ex- Gattuso/Makalele.

The elegant DLP. ex- Pirlo.

The skillful and explosive AM/winger. ex - Dinho/Nerman.

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Post by arjun.123 March 20th 2013, 19:06

Here are the kind of players I like:

The ball-winners.

The ones who don't dive & stay on their feet no matter what.

The most passionate+hardworking ones (Puyol being a primary example).

The ones who don't criticize other footballers/managers/anybody else and let their play do the talking, or in other words, the controversy-free footballers.

The ones who laugh at their own failed tricks/mistakes or on stupid decisions of the referee in-charge.
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Post by Ion Creanga March 20th 2013, 20:41

@arjun.123 wrote:Here are the kind of players I like:

The ball-winners.

The ones who don't dive & stay on their feet no matter what.

The most passionate+hardworking ones (Puyol being a primary example).

The ones who don't criticize other footballers/managers/anybody else and let their play do the talking, or in other words, the controversy-free footballers.

The ones who laugh at their own failed tricks/mistakes or on stupid decisions of the referee in-charge.

actually that's a good one and it's rare nowadays in society.. I like it.
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Post by dostoevsky March 21st 2013, 07:54

This is an interesting topic, thanks for starting it, it's a pity there haven't been many responses yet but I'm sure they'll come.

The first characteristic that immediately pops up into my mind is that of selflessness. The players I am most drawn to are those who are the perfect team players, those who provide balance, those who sacrifice themselves for the good of the team, who understand the strengths and weaknesses of their team mates and respond to this.

Correspondingly, nothing enrages me so much as seeing an act of selfishness sabotage a team. Whether this be through a decision being made with the ball at their feet or through rash, glory seeking movement off the ball exposing their team, the player that oversteps their role in the team, that goes beyond their limits only to undermine the whole team, is the player that I don't forgive. If a player tries their best, does what they are told and simply isn't good enough, then I can't hold it against them. It's not their fault that the task was beyond them. However a player that sabotages the team through a rush of blood to the head has no place in a squad.

Corresponding to the emphasis that I put on the team, the qualities that I am particularly drawn to are vision, off the ball movement and defensive positioning and finally work rate. Given that my view of football is then overwhelmingly positive, the issue of vision and decision making on the ball would take on the greatest importance to me. For this reason, my favourite players are often playmakers, whether deep lying or advanced. I would count the likes of Pirlo, Montolivo, Iniesta, Kroos and others amongst my favourites.

The issue of balance then favours fullbacks and defensive midfielders who excel defensively but who are also capable of providing an option in attack whether through their technique or physicality, such as Criscito, Abate, De Rossi and Vidal.

It is impossible to not appreciate players from all positions, but it is notable I think that whilst I love the forwards who play for my teams, I am never as drawn to them as I am midfielders and defenders. If I were to mention one forward who I particularly love though as a player and not for their goals for a team, it would be Thomas Mueller. His selflessness with the ball, consistently making the right decision for the team, keeping the play flowing swiftly and contributing both creatively and on the score sheet, all this speaks of a player of immense tactical quality. Explosiveness, ability on the ball, all are necessary qualities of a forward, however it is the marriage of technique with tactical acumen that truly that can generate an attraction to a forward that matches my natural affinity for midfielders and defenders. I love Balotelli, however the likes of Montolivo, Abate and De Sciglio come ahead of him according to the criteria I have laid down in this post.

The one obvious position that I have neglected to this point is the central defender, who has to read the whole play, lead the team from the back, restart the attack in many ways and often engage in a brutal physical battle over ninety minutes. The lack of depth in this position has probably led to me neglecting it during my post, with only Thiago Silva and Chiellini - perhaps Bonucci - really currying my favour as players. I deeply appreciate a fine central defender, in many ways Franco Baresi would be my footballing idol, however the expressiveness of play afforded to other positions that give them greater depth and balance decides this contest.

P.S. Cheers for the double shout-out in the OP. eco smile
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Post by Ion Creanga March 22nd 2013, 23:36

thanks for this quality post, it was a great read as i expected Very Happy ...

Regarding selflessness, it's an underestimated trait that i forgot to mention myself... This is what made me fall in love with italian football, the way that the NT understands to play a game... Everybody is supporting his team-mate independent of his club colours, you can see them shake hand after every defense action, encourage each other, play like brothers etc, everybody giving the best out of what they got, having one single goal: to help national team reach victory ... Even Mario plays this way for Azzuri despite his ego... I was surprised how much he gave even in games like world cup qualifiers with Denmark.
I find it harder too.. to appreciate forwards more than defenders a cause i believe their game is based more on natural talent and instincts
and their performance is not a result of a mental and physical development process, is more like a matter of inspiration on the moment..

I guess Freud's projection theory match in your case... I expected from you to appreciate rational, tactical, intelligent, tough and hard working players with strong personalities instead of flashy arrogants who can't even make a run to help their team-mates..

Didn't realize that i mentioned you twice in the OP... lol
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Post by Chumlum March 24th 2013, 00:01

There are some qualities I love seeing in players that I would guess are projection (vision & intelligence on the pitch, good sportsmanship [no simulation!], and a strong sense of optimism and determination). Other qualities I really love to see, I would not be inclined to think of as psychological projection but instead a fascination with "the other": for example, really great technique and flair play. This has always seemed to be something that somebody else possesses, ever since I was younger and still played the game (I was never a "flair" player in the least). A lot of the players I like combine these things ... a fine balance between positivity, tirelessness & teamwork versus eye-popping technical swagger.

As an Arsenal fan, that's part of why I really love Cazorla and Oxlade-Chamberlain, for example. It's always perhaps why I'm an advocate for Aaron Ramsey: he has good technique, and he always shows up. I'm willing to forgive him mediocre matches, or even mediocre months, because to me he represents the proper direction for a footballer.

What I hate are dirty, opportunistic players - I don't mean those who commit the occasional professional foul, or even those who in a heated moment make a rash and perhaps violent decision. Instead I mean the players who think they are above the game and will cheat in whatever ways they can outside of the officials' eyeline.
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Post by A c e May 10th 2013, 03:19

I am surprised to see a football thread with psychology in it. I created an account just to respond to this thread. I do not normally partake in an online discussion, mainly because I think most are graffiti with punctuation. This forum, however, has my attention. This community has a welcoming vibe.

It is rare to see someone who has an appreciation for hard work in real life. Many people think that when they at first do not succeed at something, they feel that they are not cut out for it or do not possess enough talent. Couple that thought with external influences such as taking self-proclaimed or media-backed experts’ words without investigating their credentials, they fail to see their true inner self. If an expert or a friend claims that something is impossible, many people tend to just give up.

What they fail to realize is that many things interact to get to an outcome, such as environmental influences, your temperament, your personality, etc. The expert is not you. Your friend is not you. All you have to do is respect their opinions, just do not take them if that is not how you feel. In my opinion, Albert Bandura’s efficacy expectation makes a lot of sense. Do not underestimate the power of believing in yourself. If something seems too difficult on your first try, charge straight ahead still. It will be easier the second time. Ultimately, you will get to your goal.

Anyway, my favorite footballer in this case is Andriy Shevchenko. He was very young when Chernobyl disaster took place. He then failed a dribbling test. Yet he kept going. Later, he dribbled past many famous defenders and scored unbelievable goals. Ultimately, he came out on top, and the rest is history.

tuddor wrote:they don't care about what press is gonna say after losing friendlies, they don't want to impress the crowd in games with smaller teams... it's never good to humiliate your opponent.
Good thinking. What matters most is knowing what you are capable of. What does it matter to lose a match that you well know that you can win? Many people read too much into a game and become judgmental. They easily get riled up. There are many behind-the-scenes events like match fixing. Football to me is just a big business. Also, forget about the press. They do a good job of exaggerating everything they could get their hands on. They write for money, not for what is truly worth writing.

I am also a big fan of the Azzurri.

Boy, I could talk psychology all day.
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Post by RealGunner May 10th 2013, 04:07

Very interesting introductory post A C E. I do hope you enjoy this forum and it offers you something unique which i think it will.

Welcome!

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Post by Guest May 10th 2013, 04:10

@RealGunner wrote:Very interesting introductory post A C E. I do hope you enjoy this forum and it offers you something unique which i think it will.

Welcome!


Sorry to post off topic, but I just had to welcome A c e to the forum after such a brillant post - I hope to see you around the life/humor section, buddy.

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Post by VivaStPauli May 10th 2013, 13:14

I like a lot of things about players.

The thing I like best is fairness. There are those players who you'll never see elbowing the opponent, or diving. Who will be humble in interviews.
You know, the Miroslav Klose type.

But there are other qualities I admire - versatility, for one. I'm hugely impressed by complete players that can both attack and defend. I've played as a defender (DM, CB, RB) for years now, and I am not a very good football player. I have decent vision and will put in the odd excellent tackle, but I am of zero use going forward. I can't dribble, my passing accuracy is shocking, and my shooting technique is atrocious, unless it's a dead-ball situation. For some reason I can curve a ball pretty decently.

And then I see a player like Hummels, Schweinsteiger, Kevin Boateng, or Vidal - a player who puts in a world class tackle, gets the ball, dribbles it past 2 or 3 defenders, and bangs in a long-range effort, or gets an assist. Plays like this impress me to no end.

On the whole I do like watching defenders, I greatly appreciate whenever a defender wins a 1on1 against a speedy attacker, especially when it's a well-timed sliding tackle. This makes Philipp Lahm one of my favorite players.

And what else do I like? A bit of grit, spunk. Not unfair brutality, but a decent amount of physicality. The tackles of Frings or Ballack, for example. Boy did I love Frings when he was still playing. Pure energy. He also had that confidence that comes with it - the way he took penalties, much like Ballack, usually just hammering them right below the crossbar. Not an ounce of fear that he might miss. He just always went for it, balls out.

At the same time, while I love that confidence on the pitch, I like my players humble off the pitch. Huge bonus points if they're also funny. Everybody who speaks German will know what I mean when I say interviews with Thomas Müller, Schweinsteiger, or Klopp are f*cking hilarious.

Especially Müller is awesome. He always has that cheeky smile, doesn't really seem to care all too much - and presents it on the pitch. He's absolutely fearless. He just hasn't got any f*cks to give. That is a player who'll just try something, that shouldn't be possible. And sure, mostly it doesn't work, because it f*cking shouldn't. But then sometimes it does. Like this:

I love that goal to death.

I'll probably expand on this post later, but I got to get ready for work now.
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