Javi Martinez vs Sergio Busquets

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Post by Albiceleste Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:08 pm

likeastar wrote:
Albiceleste wrote:Busquets and it wasn't even hard to choose, he's the best in the world at what he does.

I've been thinking about this, what he does, could you elaborate a bit ?
He does the role of a defensive midfielder and more, interceptions, tackles, breaking up play, pressing, covering the defense, distributing the ball, he even dribbles and creates pretty often.

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Post by The Franchise Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:11 pm

likeastar wrote:

He is a good player, very intelligent, but nothing more IMO. He's lucky because he plays for Barca, he's the perfect DM for their system. Don't think he can prove in another team.

Well good for you, I have heard this about all our players so you will excuse me if I dont believe you.

What people like you clearly dont understand is, systems do not make players, players make systems.
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Post by Jack Daniels Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:14 pm

AltoZ wrote:Busquets puts himself In position to score when he goes forward at Set Pieces.

He also missed a crucial sitter last minute In last years Semi's at Stamford Bridge, so its not true what you say.
Of course he will get in position from time to time. All outfield players do so.

But it doesn't mean he does it on a frequent basis.. In fact he does it very rarely unlike Khedira who makes runs inside the opposition box frequently.

They have very different roles and I don't see why you can't understand that.



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Post by Valkyrja Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:19 pm

Jack Daniels wrote:
AltoZ wrote:Busquets puts himself In position to score when he goes forward at Set Pieces.

He also missed a crucial sitter last minute In last years Semi's at Stamford Bridge, so its not true what you say.
Of course he will get in position from time to time. All outfield players do so.

But it doesn't mean he does it on a frequent basis.. In fact he does it very rarely unlike Khedira who makes runs inside the opposition box frequently.

They have very different roles and I don't see why you can't understand that.




Their primary role is basically the same, recover the ball and give it to the attackers/creators. Their style/way to do it is different, Khedira tends to press more, go forward because he always has cover in Xabi. Busquets can't do that, because both Xavi and Iniesta are attacking midfielders.
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Post by Jack Daniels Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:33 pm

likeastar wrote:
Their primary role is basically the same, recover the ball and give it to the attackers/creators. Their style/way to do it is different, Khedira tends to press more, go forward because he always has cover in Xabi. Busquets can't do that, because both Xavi and Iniesta are attacking midfielders.
You just proven my point lol.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:37 pm

juventus101 wrote:If Vidal and De Rossi are considered DMs, then Busquets sure as hell is not the best in the world
Please name 5 matches this season when De Rossi has been an absolute monster for Roma, surely if he were amongst the best in the world you could do that. I can't even name 5 where he was very good. The guy walks around the pitch putting zero effort and playing like he thinks he's doing the club a favor by staying. Granted, Zeman tactics might not have fit him very well or made any of the defensive players look good, but he is not having a good season.
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Post by futbol Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:22 pm

Martinez hasn't even been called up to the Spain squad once again whereas Busquets has played the most minutes in Spain's last 2 tournaments. This thread. Laughing

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Post by The Nature Boy Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:31 pm

Juventus101... you could argue that Vidal brings something more to a team than Busquets, considering that he can attack, defend, disrupt, pass, facilitate, and score (sometimes play out wide too).

But when someone is asked to paly DM, the best is Busquets bar none. De Rossi doesnt even come close. Not even in the discussion IMO.
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Post by The Nature Boy Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Javi Martinez better than Busquets because he can score goals, and Khedira called a DM in the same thread....

the decadence of goallegacy new gen of posters :facepalm:

where is the new Mole, the new Jibers? ffs, we need saving

well, im not new, but im back after a year off :coffee:

anyway, I dont like Busi, but is this thread even really a question? I mean martinez is a nice player and does more than one thing for Bayern which can certainly be counted as a plus for him, not to take anything away from him.

But the argument that Busi has done it for one team, a big team etc... how is that his fault? He does what he is told, for the teams that he plays for and they win. Simple.
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Post by The Nature Boy Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:42 pm

and for the record, Busquets on the pitch antics were annoying, and made him unlikeable.

But this isnt a popularity contest.
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Post by TheRedStag Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:02 am

Busquets by a mile.
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Post by juventus101 Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:25 am

Difference is Busquets plays next to Xavi and Iniesta. De Rossi plays next to Michael Bradley and Miralem Pjanic. Big difference. And he hasnt been all that great this season bexause Zeman plays him as a right sided B2B midfielder, whereas his best position is as the destroyer, albeit while also playing similar to a DLP. And Vidal was played solely as a DM for Leverkusen and was the 2nd best midfielder in the Bundesliga only after a monstrous season from Sahin. I rate De Rossi and Vidal both higher than Busquets. Put Busquets on this Roma team and no one would rate him anywhere near this highly. But for his entire professional career hes been on the same team as guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Etoo/Villa, Henry/Fabregas, with most of them in their prime years.
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Post by Muzza Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:32 am

AltoZ wrote:Martinez probably.

Busquets has never scored against a big team.

Not that it's relevant but Chelsea in semis, finally getting the goal when everyone else was choking.

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Post by CBarca Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:00 am

Can't do it outside of Barca...

Yet he's done it for Spain and does it well.

Busquets would be the best DM in the world for any team. That's like saying Xavi is only good because of the Barca system.

That's just delusional.
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Post by ToEy Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:29 am

juventus101 wrote:Difference is Busquets plays next to Xavi and Iniesta. De Rossi plays next to Michael Bradley and Miralem Pjanic. Big difference. And he hasnt been all that great this season bexause Zeman plays him as a right sided B2B midfielder, whereas his best position is as the destroyer, albeit while also playing similar to a DLP. And Vidal was played solely as a DM for Leverkusen and was the 2nd best midfielder in the Bundesliga only after a monstrous season from Sahin. I rate De Rossi and Vidal both higher than Busquets. Put Busquets on this Roma team and no one would rate him anywhere near this highly. But for his entire professional career hes been on the same team as guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Etoo/Villa, Henry/Fabregas, with most of them in their prime years.

Laughing

Maldini played with guys like Baresi, Nesta, Costacurta, Cafu, Gattuso, Buffon in the NT to name a few, why should he be considered the one of the best in history, put Maldini in Espanyol and no one would rate him anywhere near this highly...da logic Laughing

Ah wait lemme do the same for Thuram. Thuram played with guys like buffon, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Zambrotta, Blanc, Desailly, Makelele just to name a few, if you put him in Swansea and no one would rate him anywhere near this highly Rolling Eyes

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Post by Donuts Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:51 am

Is the only real arguement here that Martinez is better because he can score? I mean is that really the only separation between the two people can come up with... :facepalm: Buscuit is and will be the reason Martinez will never touch the field wearing a Spanish shirt unless they need a CB or Sergio is injured.
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:29 am

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Post by Valkyrja Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:57 am

CBarca wrote:Can't do it outside of Barca...

Yet he's done it for Spain and does it well.

Busquets would be the best DM in the world for any team. That's like saying Xavi is only good because of the Barca system.

That's just delusional.

Spain is Barca. And Xavi wouldn't be the same in other team, he needed Pep's system to perform like this(I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good player, but not nearly as good). Don't bring arguments like Giggs, Scholes, Maldini, because even though these guys played in one team, they didn't perform only in one generation of players.
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Post by The Franchise Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:55 pm

Dont bring examples of players like Maldini and Giggs because that would mean my point completely wrong lol

You obviously didnt watch Xavi pre Pep, that or you have no clue what your looking at.

I will guess the latter.
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Post by Onyx Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:13 pm

De Rossi and Vidal are B2B's anyway. So is Javi Martinez this season I think.

In terms of the 'can't do it outside' Barca, well it shouldn't be a reason for a player not to be the best. Barca's system isn't inferior to any other system for it not to count when determining the quality of a player.

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Post by juventus101 Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:09 pm

And for a while Maldini was also paired with *bleep* Kaladze, as well as others that were below par and he always shined.

Thuram succeeded in multiple systems, such as Barca, Juve, and France. All of who played differently.

Busquets has no right being mentioned in the same breath as those 2.

Busquets has succeeded for Barca and Spain, who has the exaxt same style and almost the exact same players. Put him in a 2-man mid in a 4-2-3-1 in a tean that doesnt alsi have Xavi, Iniesta, and Fabregas in the midfield and he wouldnt even be close tobeing considered the best in the world. For example put him next to Bradley and Pjanic and see if he does as well as De Rossi. I would bet alot of money that he doesnt. HAnd when De Rossi got to play next to other world class mids in Marchisio and Pirlo in the Euro, whether he played CB or DM, even though he only gets to play with them a few times a year, he still was one of the best players of the tournament. Better than Busquets for sure.
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Post by Onyx Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:05 pm

Have De Rossi and Vidal proven they can play in Barca/Spain's system?

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Post by Ganso Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:26 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Have De Rossi and Vidal proven they can play in Barca/Spain's system?
Has Busquets proved he can play in a non Barca/Spain system?Maybe he would just be a more technical Mikel in any other team.(Im not saying Busquets would be Mikel 2.0 in another team, just a hypothetical thought )
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Post by Onyx Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:31 pm

Ganso wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Have De Rossi and Vidal proven they can play in Barca/Spain's system?
Has Busquets proved he can play in a non Barca/Spain system?Maybe he would just be a more technical Mikel in any other team.(Im not saying Busquets would be Mikel 2.0 in another team, just a hypothetical thought )

Yeh I'm just saying a player shouldn't have to play in multiple systems to be rated highly.

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Post by The Nature Boy Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:50 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:
Ganso wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Have De Rossi and Vidal proven they can play in Barca/Spain's system?
Has Busquets proved he can play in a non Barca/Spain system?Maybe he would just be a more technical Mikel in any other team.(Im not saying Busquets would be Mikel 2.0 in another team, just a hypothetical thought )

Yeh I'm just saying a player shouldn't have to play in multiple systems to be rated highly.

agreed.

Also, Busquets does the role differently than it was done 7-10 years ago, or perhaps than most of his peers. DMs are usually rated on how well they destroy or disrupt, and tackle. Basically they use their physicality over their intelligence. Busquets uses the latter, yet it is held against him by some in this thread. Why? Why is there only one right way to play a role? Its like saying Inzaghi is a terrible finisher because he doesnt do scissors and bikes.
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Post by The Nature Boy Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:50 pm

sry for the DP (double penetration).
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