AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL)

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:21 am

Well sadly, once Alexis come on, we had become desperate and lacked the composure needed.

We no longer pinned you in your defensive third. So we never even got to see if that would of worked anyway.

Him or Tello should of started the game..but instead we are ruining this great team by filling it with midfielders.

Also, he himself struggled merely controlling the ball.

My dissapointment in not bringing Tello on also came in the fact Pedro lasted 90 minutes despite literally nothing. Again, Pedro is untouchable for reasons I cannot figure out.

Busquets or Xavi should of also been sacrificed for Thiago, who could offer some dynamic dribbling or actions.

And no need to apologize Arq, its a small thing to misinterpret and after your win, you must be very happy.




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Post by gondov Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:48 am

My fellow barca fans, prepare yourselves for another humiliation on Wednesday!

Just like Arsenal, I''m afraid we are going to go out of 2 cup competitions in the space of a week.

We should all forget about any chance of a comeback. This is the CL. We couldn't even manage to comeback from a 1-0, last season with Chelsea, let alone 2-0 this time around.

Its sad but true Sad
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Post by The Sanchez Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:51 am

Got to start MVP for Clasico and Milan. Got to Roura, you just have to. Can't he see this problem of an extra midfielder in the starting side AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL) - Page 4 2276801876
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Post by CBarca Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:27 am

BarcaKizz wrote:I'm really to hurt to discuss this game right now. But to any Milan fans, enjoy it. It was a superb performance.

Really crushed though. Placing blame at the feet of individuals isn't correct, the whole team was poor, the attitude was off and there was no hunger.

It hurts me more because I was sure this was going to be our year.

I thought it was going to be our year too but after the recent performances vs Madrid, Malaga, and Granada, I wasn't too sure. They were worrying to say the least. The fact that the problem with playing Cesc in the "midfield" and Iniesta out wide hadn't been fixed yet either, and still hasn't been. This also worried me. Not to mention everything that happened with Tito, and that Roura is managing us.

Despite all this like I said earlier, I was expecting a comfortable win or draw. Milan have improved but I didn't expect them to handle us anyway, even with recent poor performances.

Going out in the RO16 is awful, especially for a team like this. The jigsaw pieces didn't align correctly this time, and things weren't right. It's unfortunate and I'm trying to take things in stride and I'm not.

I'm not ready to give up yet, but I concede that the tie is all but done and dusted.
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Post by RealGunner Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:28 am

Thought i was watching Arsenal at times. Passing with no purpose because of lack of movement. Players like Cesc n pedro looking clueless. Pedro doesn't play as a wide forward anymore. He thinks he is better than he is and tries to do things which he isn't good at.

Fabregas was there to rotate with iniesta at LW for some bizarre reasons and when he moved to the left, he just came right back inside to already packed midfield.

Milan were pretty happy to let Barca fullbacks have the ball. Because as soon as they lost it which was bound to happen because there was nothing they could do with it. Milan attacked right through the flanks. Ses and boateng were always on each flank anticipating the balls from Montolivo.

Barcelona's problem was the same as it has been most of this season. Lack of forwards and too much over complications. Fabregas breaks the flow in attacks, not purposefully but indirectly he he tries to take over and try to do what xavi is supposed to but doesn't do what he should be doing.

Thiago's dynamism was required tonight for example. Or Tello's pace and movement. Neither was there. Roura is not a manager so i won't blame him but he is doing exactly the same thing he did in his 2nd match. He is afraid to do something else and that is understandable but that is what let Barca down. You can not go into a game of this magnitude without a manager.

Allegri had his tactics spot on. He denied Messi any kind of space between the lines and basically they defended with a combination of high-pressing and the Dutch principle of “through-marking” A tactic which not surprisingly Mourinho has been using against Barca in the clasicos recently.
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:33 am

I think the biggest thing missing from Barca's approach was penetration in wide areas. You guys were quite good at this last year, even against Milan. This year though it's seems to be missing.

It's a difficult game to gauge really, I thought Barca were poor but only a couple of things were missing for things to get much better.

Credit to Milan, they stuck to their guns and played well, gotta respect that. They can play but tonight they chose to sacrifice that for the win.

La Liga is now in a weird position now, all four sides could get knocked out in the round of 16.
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Post by The Sanchez Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:47 am

Tito at the start of the season insisted he was going to shut down the ususage of an extra midfield and stick with two inside forwards and rotate the midfielders but he seems to be making the same mistake as Pep last season. I don't care if Villa was out, we still had Alexis and even better Tello. Surely both Tito and Roura have seen how much our game play suffers when we play that extra midfielder but they still insist on the idea.
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Post by worms Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:20 am

What is through-marking by the way? I assume it is is by defending by blocking passing lanes instead of man marking the player who you don't want to get the ball? This would allow you to pressure higher up the pitch like Madrid do.

I noticed at certain points in the match Milan would push high up and look almost like a 4 - 2 - 4.
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Post by Zealous Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:30 am

Yup defending passing lanes is difficult but it;s probably the best way to counteract possession based teams. Defending passing lanes instead of straight up man marking is how we usually defend against Barca and it took us a number of games to get it right. Really surprised Milan got the hang of it so quickly.
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Post by windkick Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:04 am

A Barca loss really brings out the horrible in people right? Some serious Barca haters out there, pretty disgusting. Hate us or not, our run has been a marvel.

I won't add nothing that hasn't been said. Just, I am really heart broken. Extremely sad. Horrible, horrible, horrible. How much of this do we pin on us not having a proper manager? Tito gets sick, and Roura steps in and imo has been crap. Practically plays the same 11 players every week, today brings on Masch and Alexis when we need a goal and neglects players who have been solid and could of added a dimension like Thiago or Tello. Again, we don't bring Villa because he is sick (is he?), yet we bring Xavi? wtf is going on here. Total horse shit and I expect heads to roll this summer..

and yes I am looking at that entire right flank. I'm sorry but at a club of this caliber having total crap for a right wing isn't gonna get it done. Same with Cesc, either you accept you came to sit on the bench or gtfo. No more of this moving Iniesta to the wing to make you happy. Same with Mascherano, you were great last year but also time to gtfo and get a proper CB. Song...total waste of cash.

Seriously Rossell or some one has seriously been dropping the ball and progressively making our team a tad bit worse every year with garbage transfers.
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Post by windkick Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:18 am

Sorry, I am speaking out of being sad Sad
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Post by messixaviesta Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:48 am

The admiration with which some external parties regard us is both flattering and irritating.

Can you believe it that William Hill is giving us 4/1 odds to win this UCL. I would be giving 400/1 odds. It just won't happen. We cannot keep a clean sheet and we cannot score four goals especially when the opponent will likely park the bus.

Well its almost certain now that this summer we will be hunting for a new head coach. Personally I don't see a single individual suitable to manage this team. It is still Pep Guardiola's team. Yes he overindulged and made many mistakes in his last season but in his first three seasons he was out of this world brilliant and what we are left with now is remnants of those days. When I said our era of domination was close to an end hardly anyone agreed with me. When we began the season in swashbuckling fashion it seemed like I couldn't have been more wrong. Yet amidst all that euphoria I think it was quite clear that this team was not at the level of 2008-09 or 2010-11. I had a fear the bubble could burst any time just like it did for Real Madrid in 2003-04. A lot has been said about the forward line and yes there isn't much to debate there. Yet the one individual I miss most right now is Eric Abidal. This season has made it clear just how much he helped us as a defensive minded left back who often became the auxiliary third center back. The solidity of those days is a far cry now. Of course there are other reasons like the aging of Carles Puyol but as a whole the defense is well below the standards of Pep's best days. As none other than Johann Cruyff said that teams run in cycles of three to four years and no matter what you do you can't sit on the top for too long. Well we sat there for pretty much as long as any of the best sides of all time have done and that for me is the greatest solace at this moment.


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Post by windkick Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:37 am

I mean, I think thats a bit unfair considering Tito hasn't been manning us since like December or so. He hasn't had a real shot. Roura is the one who should of never got the shot at interim. I think the staff thought that the team would be able to coast until Tito returned but it back fired on them
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Post by CBarca Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:43 am

windkick wrote:I mean, I think thats a bit unfair considering Tito hasn't been manning us since like December or so. He hasn't had a real shot. Roura is the one who should of never got the shot at interim. I think the staff thought that the team would be able to coast until Tito returned but it back fired on them

Agreed. Tito has done well so far- he can still do better but he hasn't been here due to some unfortunate events. He still won the league on his own by december in his first season and our run so far in the CL has been good until now when he's been absent.

It's a bit unfair to Tito really and giving him just this long to judge him is unfair in itself- especially when you consider the fact that he's been gone.
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Post by LeBéninois Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:57 am

CBarca wrote:
windkick wrote:I mean, I think thats a bit unfair considering Tito hasn't been manning us since like December or so. He hasn't had a real shot. Roura is the one who should of never got the shot at interim. I think the staff thought that the team would be able to coast until Tito returned but it back fired on them

Agreed. Tito has done well so far- he can still do better but he hasn't been here due to some unfortunate events. He still won the league on his own by december in his first season and our run so far in the CL has been good until now when he's been absent.

It's a bit unfair to Tito really and giving him just this long to judge him is unfair in itself- especially when you consider the fact that he's been gone.

Really unfortunate that Tito was out . but the team has too many needless players. When Xaviesta, alves, busquets and messi are in form they make up for all the problems. Out of 11 players 4-5 are really playing at their level since the start. Others don't play enough and they can't even help when needed.
We could talk about Fabregas not needed but the fact is he is there and won't leave anytime soon . What's the solution ? ...headache .
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Post by Lupi Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:57 am

messixaviesta wrote:
Epoto wrote: smoking Barcelona played like Roma Under Enrique :coffee:

Which is still better than Roma under Zeman, what say?


I don't know about you but i if my team is about to lose , i rather it wont be with stats like 70% possession and only 2 shot on goal . that's just not me , i go all in worst comes to worst i know that i gave my all Wink
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Post by billy_gr Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:15 am


Meh, team of midfielders with no real attacking edge.
Subdued performance with only 2 chances in the whole game.
Call it arrogance or complacency, thing is that we just can’t win games with our name only.
No wide action, no initiative, no risky play to pierce a stonewall defense.
Congrats to Milan for nullifying us with a simple, yet effective tactical approach. I wish more teams played like this against us so we might reconsider our game plan or at least our line up.
Lastly Perdo and Fabregas never entered the field
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Post by harhar11 Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:29 am

Epoto wrote:
messixaviesta wrote:
Epoto wrote: smoking Barcelona played like Roma Under Enrique :coffee:

Which is still better than Roma under Zeman, what say?


I don't know about you but i if my team is about to lose , i rather it wont be with stats like 70% possession and only 2 shot on goal . that's just not me , i go all in worst comes to worst i know that i gave my all Wink

The reason why that happends is because of this
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL) - Page 4 BDkvz5jCUAEfv4u
If they would start shooting more, the 10 defenders would just block the shots, its close to impossible to make a throughball or play a 1-2, and if Barca would choose to start crossing the ball more who do you think would be at the end of those crosses? Our 169 cm forwards or the tall defenders?

The only thing you can do to a parked bus is hope to god that you are lucky, because if you are not then more than likely you will lose. And that is why its the most effective style in the world by faaaaaaaaar and why lesser talented side uses it whenever they play a better team..

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Post by Brady2Moss Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:42 pm

harhar11 wrote:

The reason why that happends is because of this
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL) - Page 4 BDkvz5jCUAEfv4u
If they would start shooting more, the 10 defenders would just block the shots, its close to impossible to make a throughball or play a 1-2, and if Barca would choose to start crossing the ball more who do you think would be at the end of those crosses? Our 169 cm forwards or the tall defenders?

The only thing you can do to a parked bus is hope to god that you are lucky, because if you are not then more than likely you will lose. And that is why its the most effective style in the world by faaaaaaaaar and why lesser talented side uses it whenever they play a better team..

Breaking down bus-parking teams is not really that difficult to be honest. It's just that Barca do not have the personnel necessary to accomplish such a task.

Alba +Alves on the wings
low hard crosses into the box
????
profit.

How many times this season have we seen Alba, Adriano and Alves in open spaces with no one to cross the ball to? It seems nobody bothers to make runs into the box most of the time. I guess that's the price you pay for filling the forward positions with midfielders who have not a single striker's instinct in them.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:53 pm

You clearly never played football before.

Breaking it down is very difficult.

Yes, low crosses are a good idea to use..but your mixing up two different things.

Those open spaces you speak of, are not in games where teams park the bus.
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Post by harhar11 Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:06 pm

Brady2Moss wrote:
harhar11 wrote:

The reason why that happends is because of this
AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL) - Page 4 BDkvz5jCUAEfv4u
If they would start shooting more, the 10 defenders would just block the shots, its close to impossible to make a throughball or play a 1-2, and if Barca would choose to start crossing the ball more who do you think would be at the end of those crosses? Our 169 cm forwards or the tall defenders?

The only thing you can do to a parked bus is hope to god that you are lucky, because if you are not then more than likely you will lose. And that is why its the most effective style in the world by faaaaaaaaar and why lesser talented side uses it whenever they play a better team..

Breaking down bus-parking teams is not really that difficult to be honest. It's just that Barca do not have the personnel necessary to accomplish such a task.

Alba +Alves on the wings
low hard crosses into the box
????
profit.

How many times this season have we seen Alba, Adriano and Alves in open spaces with no one to cross the ball to? It seems nobody bothers to make runs into the box most of the time. I guess that's the price you pay for filling the forward positions with midfielders who have not a single striker's instinct in them.

Not difficult? Then how come Real Madrid, the best counter-attacking side in the world, looks clueless whenever they face such a team? Heck, they look clueless whenever thay have to make more than 5 passes. And it's not just Real Madrid, every team in the world looks clueless against those tactics. For ex Germany struggled against Portugal at the EURO's..

Belive me I got angry with the fact that neither Pedro nor Messi were making off the ball runs, but even if they did make those runs, how much space do you think there was for Xavi and Iniesta to make throughballs? Or if they did a pass over the defence, how much chances would it be that our 169 forwards would be able to control those instead of the 10 tall defenders? Or if they did those low hard crosses into the box, once again how big chance was there that it was going to the forwards and not to the 10 defenders or the keeper? And if they started shooting more, most of the shots would have been block by atleast 1 of the defenders.

There exist not a single tactic against that style. All you can hope for is that you get a lucky break and score from it, forcing the team who parked the bus to attack more and leaving more space for you to utilize..

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Post by sportsczy Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:10 pm

Only way you can "break" ptb tactics is width. You need to force the defenders across the pitch so that there is at least a few small spaces. Problem with Barca is that Iniesta cuts back in, Cesc doesn't go wide and Pedro has forgotten how to make runs wide for some reason. I won't even mention Sanchez.

Messi and Iniesta can break things down more often than not even if you stubbornly attack the middle. But if you want to give them the best chance of doing it, you need to maintain the width.

Long shots are useful if the CBs sit deep. Nothing to do with PTB directly... it's a way to make CBs worry about the shot so there's space behind them.
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Post by Brady2Moss Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:14 pm

The Franchise wrote:You clearly never played football before.

You don't have to play football to understand the sport.

Breaking it down is very difficult.

I disagree. If it was that difficult every team would employ that same tactic against superior teams.

Yes, low crosses are a good idea to use..but your mixing up two different things.

Those open spaces you speak of, are not in games where teams park the bus.

Yeah, they are. Teams like Chelsea and Milan only crowd the middle of the field leaving loads of space on the wings. I can't even count how many times I've seen Milan/Chelsea fullbacks tucking in allowing Alves and Alba space to roam on the wings.

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Post by harhar11 Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:21 pm

Brady2Moss wrote:

Breaking it down is very difficult.

I disagree. If it was that difficult every team would employ that same tactic against superior teams.

But they do. Real Madrid do that against us, Milan as well, Celtic, Chelsea heck everyone do that against us, Man utd and Man City did it against Real Madrid, Granada did it against both us and Madrid, Portugal did it against Germany and Spain, France did it against Spain, England did it against Italy etc.



Last edited by harhar11 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by harhar11 Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:24 pm

sportsczy wrote:Only way you can "break" ptb tactics is width. You need to force the defenders across the pitch so that there is at least a few small spaces. Problem with Barca is that Iniesta cuts back in, Cesc doesn't go wide and Pedro has forgotten how to make runs wide for some reason. I won't even mention Sanchez.

Messi and Iniesta can break things down more often than not even if you stubbornly attack the middle. But if you want to give them the best chance of doing it, you need to maintain the width.

Long shots are useful if the CBs sit deep. Nothing to do with PTB directly... it's a way to make CBs worry about the shot so there's space behind them.

Aint Barca like the best team in that department? I mean, how often does barca score a goal where they make a throughball/pass over the defence to the wings for an overlapping fullback who the makes a low cross to one of our forwards? And even we have problems using width against PTB.


Last edited by harhar11 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Brady2Moss Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:26 pm

harhar11 wrote:
Not difficult? Then how come Real Madrid, the best counter-attacking side in the world, looks clueless whenever they face such a team?

Now why would an excellent counter attacking team have it easy against a team which rarely attacks? Are you aware that for one to counter attack, they have to be attacked first?

Or if they did those low hard crosses into the box, once again how big chance was there that it was going to the forwards and not to the 10 defenders or the keeper?

Do you know how hard it is for defenders to actually defend a low hard cross struck into the box?

There exist not a single tactic against that style. All you can hope for is that you get a lucky break and score from it, forcing the team who parked the bus to attack more and leaving more space for you to utilize..

Anti-football teams are not that hard to nullify, otherwise, teams like Celtic, Rangers, Inter Milan, Chelsea would be winning the CL every year.

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