AC Milan vs FC Barcelona (1st leg CL)

harhar11 wrote:
Not difficult? Then how come Real Madrid, the best counter-attacking side in the world, looks clueless whenever they face such a team?

Now why would an excellent counter attacking team have it easy against a team which rarely attacks? Are you aware that for one to counter attack, they have to be attacked first?

Or if they did those low hard crosses into the box, once again how big chance was there that it was going to the forwards and not to the 10 defenders or the keeper?

Do you know how hard it is for defenders to actually defend a low hard cross struck into the box?

There exist not a single tactic against that style. All you can hope for is that you get a lucky break and score from it, forcing the team who parked the bus to attack more and leaving more space for you to utilize..

Anti-football teams are not that hard to nullify, otherwise, teams like Celtic, Rangers, Inter Milan, Chelsea would be winning the CL every year.

harhar11 wrote:

Brady2Moss wrote:

Breaking it down is very difficult.

I disagree. If it was that difficult every team would employ that same tactic against superior teams.

But they do. Real Madrid do that against us, Milan as well, Celtic, Chelsea heck everyone do that against us, Man utd and Man City did it against Real Madrid, Granada did it against both us and Madrid, Portugal did it against Germany and Spain, France did it against Spain, England did it against Italy etc.

It would seem you do not have an idea what it means to park the bus. What Inter Milan did at the Camp Nou in 2010..now that's what you would call parking a bus on the pitch.

Real Madrid, on the other hand, do not park the bus against Barca. Sure, they all drop down to defend, but they do rise up in numbers to attack as well.

Brady2Moss wrote:

Now why would an excellent counter attacking team have it easy against a team which rarely attacks? Are you aware that for one to counter attack, they have to be attacked first?

I used Real Madrid as an example to show that a team who uses a total different style than ours AND because last night I heard someone say that we have to play faster, so I mentioned Real Madrid arguably the fastest team in the world, because they have just as much problem as we have if not more..

Do you know how hard it is for defenders to actually defend a low hard cross struck into the box?

Like I said earlier, aint Barca the team who makes the most low hard crosses in the world? Atleast we most be up there, seeing as most of Iniesta assist this season has been low hard crosses as are Alves assist every season..

Anti-football teams are not that hard to nullify, otherwise, teams like Celtic, Rangers, Inter Milan, Chelsea would be winning the CL every year.

First of all, because the difference between Celtic and Rangers and the top teams in europe is faaaar to big. PTB tactics is not an instant win(although of the tactics, it's the closest one), it just cuts down the difference in quality somewhat. I mean, didnt even 90% of Milanista say that their team was awful/shit this year and yet they deservingly defeated us?

I don't watch serie a that often, but I have no idea what happend to Inter, but the reason why Chelsea dont win that often is because they just aint that good at defending Last season they tried to park the bus, they won but the parked bus was aint that good. They were just lucky..

Brady2Moss wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

Brady2Moss wrote:



I disagree. If it was that difficult every team would employ that same tactic against superior teams.

But they do. Real Madrid do that against us, Milan as well, Celtic, Chelsea heck everyone do that against us, Man utd and Man City did it against Real Madrid, Granada did it against both us and Madrid, Portugal did it against Germany and Spain, France did it against Spain, England did it against Italy etc.

It would seem you do not have an idea what it means to park the bus. What Inter Milan did at the Camp Nou in 2010..now that's what you would call parking a bus on the pitch.

Real Madrid, on the other hand, do not park the bus against Barca. Sure, they all drop down to defend, but they do rise up in numbers to attack as well.

If you want to nitpick, then not even Inter parked the bus because even they attacked once at the camp nou..

But fine, call it catenaccio cause that's the original name, no?

I dont see why people are saying Roura's tactics and decisions were bad.This is what we have.Pedro shite who should have clearly been sold,he doesnt even run anymore.Sanchez,I dont blame Pep for buying him since he was Great at Udinese but he has been awful and should have been sold.

The only decisions that were wrong were not playing Thiago when its obvious that our main obstacle against teams who park the bus is not creating enough chances.I actually dont blame Milan for parking the bus;actually I dont blame any team for parking the bus.

Thiago should have played on the left and Alves on the right with Adriano as a right back.Tello should have played on the left.Thing is we lacked two things and these were speed and physical strength.We dont have a single fast player in our team,Messi has slowed down ALOT and Tello doesnt have half a brain.

Its a disgrace that our best chance was a near own goal by Mexes.

I dont see why we even bought Alba,he's always out of position and is so shit defensively.Pique has absolutely lost it and he's been overrated again since the start of the season.He had like 3 great games with the best one being the one against Madrid.He's lost it since the start of 2011 and before that he was really one of the best in the world.

These players should not be in Barca:Pedro,Sanchez,Alba and Cesc.

I know we wont sell them but to be honest I hope I dont see them in our kit again.


We could still win at Camp Nou mind you,and all our flaws will be forgotten if we go through.

sportsczy wrote:Only way you can "break" ptb tactics is width. You need to force the defenders across the pitch so that there is at least a few small spaces. Problem with Barca is that Iniesta cuts back in, Cesc doesn't go wide and Pedro has forgotten how to make runs wide for some reason. I won't even mention Sanchez.

Messi and Iniesta can break things down more often than not even if you stubbornly attack the middle. But if you want to give them the best chance of doing it, you need to maintain the width.

I agree with this. When your two FBs are the only sources of width you have a problem. Compare Alexis + Villa vs Cesc + Pedro. Clearly one offers width while the other one offers more possession... which you would have anyway because Milan happily cede the ball to you.

I'm not that butthurt because the game kinda played out the way I expected it to. Milan are by far the hardest team in the CL this year for us. They're a hard team to break down and last year we required a soft penalty to go through. This time they were the lucky ones.

To me the game comes down to lack of forwards, Messi being triple marked wherever they go, and honestly a bad attitude. The team was not there 100% they were complacent. After the match Pique said "If we don't give our all then this can happen" - clearly indicating that they didn't think they put maximum effort into it.

I think a remontada is possible, but if Milan scores just once we're out, and I also don't think we'll learn from the mistakes we've made.

worms wrote:What is through-marking by the way? I assume it is is by defending by blocking passing lanes instead of man marking the player who you don't want to get the ball? This would allow you to pressure higher up the pitch like Madrid do.

I noticed at certain points in the match Milan would push high up and look almost like a 4 - 2 - 4.

It's a combination of pressing and man marking at the same time. Something the dutch were well known for in the 70s-80s. Basically you strategically eliminate the passing options around one area or more but milan last night only focused it through the middle. Ambrosini was tightly marking xavi while muntari and montolivo were backing him up blocking xavi's passes to the other midfielders and to messi and cesc.

windkick wrote:I mean, I think thats a bit unfair considering Tito hasn't been manning us since like December or so. He hasn't had a real shot. Roura is the one who should of never got the shot at interim. I think the staff thought that the team would be able to coast until Tito returned but it back fired on them

Perhaps. See I wish Tito nothing but the very best. However to be brutally blunt you can't have a man suffering from cancer as your head coach. When Tito took over the job I guess there was a belief that he had been cured and these problems would not come back. I don't think it makes much sense for him or the club for him to push himself against all limits and continue in this role. He should do what is best for his health.

Epoto wrote:
I don't know about you but i if my team is about to lose , i rather it wont be with stats like 70% possession and only 2 shot on goal . that's just not me , i go all in worst comes to worst i know that i gave my all

Fair enough

sportsczy wrote:Only way you can "break" ptb tactics is width. You need to force the defenders across the pitch so that there is at least a few small spaces. Problem with Barca is that Iniesta cuts back in, Cesc doesn't go wide and Pedro has forgotten how to make runs wide for some reason. I won't even mention Sanchez.

Messi and Iniesta can break things down more often than not even if you stubbornly attack the middle. But if you want to give them the best chance of doing it, you need to maintain the width.

Long shots are useful if the CBs sit deep. Nothing to do with PTB directly... it's a way to make CBs worry about the shot so there's space behind them.

Very nice post.

sportsczy wrote:Only way you can "break" ptb tactics is width.

I'm no fancy manager, and I don't even play one on FIFA 13, but I would spend the next couple of weeks training Tello to do his classic winger-like runs into the corner (where he typically gets boxed in and becomes ineffective as a striker), but with a strategy to cross into the box. Villa and Pedro/Sanchez should be drilled at making runs into the box until their shins bleed. Then, at least, Milan won't be able to commit 3 men to mark Messi.

So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

If Messi decides to show up Barca will beat them comfortably.

Real Kandahar wrote:So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

i think we are all counting for the 2 goals to send it to extra time and hopefully close the deal then, 3 goals vs a defence like that will be close to impossible in 90 minutes.

spanky wrote:

Real Kandahar wrote:So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

i think we are all counting for the 2 goals to send it to extra time and hopefully close the deal then, 3 goals vs a defence like that will be close to impossible in 90 minutes.

Don't overhype their defence like they are gods or something which quiet frankly they are not considered world class our horrible performance only made them look like inform Nesta's.

Real Kandahar wrote:So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

dunno really, it all depends on Messi. If he's taken out of the game or forced to drop deep...it's lights out for Barca. No Messi goals, no party.

They're not gods at defense individually but they put in a hell of a collective display. You shouldn't sell them short.

Donuts wrote:

spanky wrote:

Real Kandahar wrote:So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

i think we are all counting for the 2 goals to send it to extra time and hopefully close the deal then, 3 goals vs a defence like that will be close to impossible in 90 minutes.

Don't overhype their defence like they are gods or something which quiet frankly they are not considered world class our horrible performance only made them look like inform Nesta's.

you know those bottom table la liga teams who we sometimes cant break down are much worse than milan and frankly milan has a way better team than chelsea last year and look how that went, so i dont know whats your point here because no one even said anything about them being world class.

Defence is little to do with individuals, I cant believe how obvious it is and how people cant figure it out.

Its about organisation, understanding of a collective concept and communication.

Its like 90% team and 10% individual for me guess.

This is why players like Zapata and a former midfielder turned leftback in Constant were able to be relatively untroubled.

This is why Bonera has performed against us and other fodders.

If the entire structure is in place and the team are on point, individuals hardly matter aslong as they avoid bad errors.

This is why defending is frankly easier than attacking..thats why the lesser teams go to it.

What do you guys think about using Song instead of Busquets to take advantage of his height and his great vertical jump? We played in many crosses that led nowhere yesterday, having an aerial presence could be useful.

The Franchise wrote:This is why defending is frankly easier than attacking..thats why the lesser teams go to it.

Easy there, loaded words at GL

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

The Franchise wrote:This is why defending is frankly easier than attacking..thats why the lesser teams go to it.

Easy there, loaded words at GL

Bah, people dont like the truth when it dont benefit them. Whats new.

And no, not Song over Busquets. We shouldnt be crossing..height and jumping aint important when there is only 1 realistic target vs an entire defence.

If we want to win, it would be our way, we cant win any other way.

Also, with Song, we will just turn the ball over more which would mean more counters.

If anything, it would be Thiago in, with Xavi playing in Busquets role. Wont happen though.

Real Kandahar wrote:So.... if Milan completely park the bus in camp nou, what chance do you guys think Barca has of scoring 3 goals?

Better question would be whether we concede a goal at the Camp Nou and if we do then it will be a tough task of getting 4 goals especially if we play an extra midfielder instead of a forward.

-----------------pique-----------------

----villa---------messi-------alves---

iniesta---------busquets----------xavi---

Adriano------mascherano--------puyol-


At least make our KO more fun , rather than going out with same old stupid sideways passes which leads to nothing.

Tbh I don't think Milan will even bother to counter like they did at home. They are probably just going to park 24/7 with zero counter or attacker up front. Would be no point in them trying to counter and risking opening up a hole for us to score.

I think the only way they start to attack is if we manage score 2, maybe even after 1 we get they might think it's time to go out for the killer away goal that would end us. But we have to score first. If we score 2, then things will get interesting, because then they won't be able to park at all anymore and then things would finally open up for us. But it's not gonna happen. I expect the next match to end 1-1 or something like that

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What do you guys think about using Song instead of Busquets to take advantage of his height and his great vertical jump? We played in many crosses that led nowhere yesterday, having an aerial presence could be useful.

Busi is taller than Song. I dont see why our Defensive Mid should be that far up ahead anyway, especially with an away goal for them being so killer to us. We need our defense to actually defend. Our 2 mids and forwards should be able to get it done this time. Too much at risk to have everyone attacking like usual, we would be 1 counter attack away from being merked

I would go actually try something new to see if it made a difference...

---------Valdes
Alves--Puyol--Pique--Alba
----------Busi
-----Thiago
--------------Iniesta
Messi------------Tello
---------Villa

This would totally throw off there defense. They are obviously terrified of Messi (rightfully so), that when they go out wide to double/triple team him that it should help open up the middle and left flank for Iniesta/Tello/Villa.

Xavi on for Thiago, Pedro or Alexis on for Villa if he gets tired and then we slide Messi back to the middle. All depends on how the game is going. Even Cex for Iniesta late if we need goal since Cex is a better goal threat but obviously not as good as a playmaker as Iniesta. But given we havn't had Messi out right for years, that the second the balls is kicked the entire Milan team is going to think...."oh shit, wait...we didn't practice for this....."

Even just the simple rotation between Villa and Messi throughout the match could be enough to disrupt there defense enough to get us at least an honest shot at scoring

That one simple move would throw off there defense, and also boost our bench power