The culture of pornography

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Post by Cruijf Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Idiot wrote:people want to fu*k goodlooking women, people cant fu*k goodlooking women therefore fap to them through technology and not only, which gives you the oppotunity to have visual contact with any chick you like

what if pornography never existed? then them people either would sit humbly at home jerking off through imagination or settle with ugly females.

life is not easy, if you dont live life through the other side you will never understand, many factors take place in order to take action, succeed in doing it and accomplish your will at its maximum.

porn gives you a chance when you are hopeless, porn gives you joy even at its lowest form

viva pornography!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty sure you just proved my point on objectifying women.

Actually respect them and view them as human beings?

No! let's treat them as objects to be used for sex and classify them as 'ugly' and 'good looking'.

It's attitudes like this that result in teen bullying, peer pressure, and depression.

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Post by CBarca Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:28 pm

Looking at a girl and saying she's ugly or good looking is not objectifying women.

It's basic instinct to judge women on looks. Now, I'm VERY skeptical typically of the "basic instincts" argument when we take a look at humans. This is due to our complex nature- we can often overcome instinct where other species might not because of our reasoning and logical ability, but in my opinion, this is a case where it does apply.

Men are always going to judge based on looks. Women do the same thing. It's not bad, people need to accept that. As long as that's not ALL you look at, it's completely fine.

It's attitudes like this that result in teen bullying, peer pressure, and depression.

But blaming that on pornography is stupid.

The bigger issue in these cases is often the parents and the environment a child is being brought up in. Pornography isn't doing this, a bad upbringing does this. Bad parenting will do this.

Maybe, MAYBE...you might have a slight case that pornography could POTENTIALLY aggravate these problems, but that's a very weak and unsubstantiated argument at best.
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:19 pm

Linda boreman is worth reading about if you want an example of how a life can be ruined and degraded, and might put a doubt in your mind about what's really going on in the videos you watch
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:57 pm

I haven't read through the posts yet, but after reading the OP it is not clear to me that there's any proof that there's a causation between porn and this kind of attitude. I'm 22 but I also grew up in a time when porn was readily available to me since a young age and I can't remember it having that sort of attitude. I do think there is something f**ked up about eleven year olds singing "face down ass up that's how I like to f**k" but I'm not convinced at all that porn is the reason for it.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:37 am

So now that I've gone through the posts, there's very little discussion of the actual article?

Anyways I agree with eman, porn doesn't objectify women any more than a victoria's secret parade and no one here is calling those morally appalling or disgusting. And while I agree that there is some denigration of women in the way that some within the porn industry refer to them, i'd point out that referring to women as sluts and bitches is usually in the title and not in the actual video (though still wrong of course) and that as vivas noted there is classy porn out there.

Also Arq women and men should be held accountable the same. The lock/key analogy assumes that women have something to lock while men try to break in, while in reality both parties just want to have a good time.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:24 am

Fully agreed.
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:30 pm

CBarca wrote:Looking at a girl and saying she's ugly or good looking is not objectifying women.

It's basic instinct to judge women on looks. Now, I'm VERY skeptical typically of the "basic instincts" argument when we take a look at humans. This is due to our complex nature- we can often overcome instinct where other species might not because of our reasoning and logical ability, but in my opinion, this is a case where it does apply.

Men are always going to judge based on looks. Women do the same thing. It's not bad, people need to accept that. As long as that's not ALL you look at, it's completely fine.

It's attitudes like this that result in teen bullying, peer pressure, and depression.

But blaming that on pornography is stupid.

The bigger issue in these cases is often the parents and the environment a child is being brought up in. Pornography isn't doing this, a bad upbringing does this. Bad parenting will do this.

Maybe, MAYBE...you might have a slight case that pornography could POTENTIALLY aggravate these problems, but that's a very weak and unsubstantiated argument at best.

If you still don't see the problem, I really don't know what to say.

You're going to form a complete and absolute opinion on a complex human being based on nothing more than a physical attribute they had no choice about? How is that any different from racism?

Absolutely disgusting...

Men and women are both complex and dignified creatures that deserve to be looked at completely, not purely based on subjective, external, 'beauty.'
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:32 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Anyways I agree with eman, porn doesn't objectify women any more than a victoria's secret parade and no one here is calling those morally appalling or disgusting. And while I agree that there is some denigration of women in the way that some within the porn industry refer to them, i'd point out that referring to women as sluts and bitches is usually in the title and not in the actual video (though still wrong of course) and that as vivas noted there is classy porn out there.

So you're fine with 12 year olds watching videos that refer to women as "sl**s and bi****s"?

You don't think this has any negative impact at all?
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Dude, Porn is usually 18+ in any country, so this is really not a matter of outrage or anything, parents just need to parent. Enforce that shit.
And TBH I don't think porn isn't going to harma anyone who's reached the maturity level of the average 15yo, some might need to be 21 to be at that level, others may reach it at 12, but the average mid-puberty teen really won't see anything in porn that'll shatter his world.
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Post by guest7 Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:44 pm

looool how is parent supposed to stop a kid from masturbating? remove his privacy?

let kids fap if they want to, i did it, all my friends did it, even my teachers probably did it and they all turned out fine. porn isn't as harmful as people think ffs
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Post by CBarca Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:54 pm

If you still don't see the problem, I really don't know what to say.

You're going to form a complete and absolute opinion on a complex human being based on nothing more than a physical attribute they had no choice about? How is that any different from racism?

Absolutely disgusting...

Men and women are both complex and dignified creatures that deserve to be looked at completely, not purely based on subjective, external, 'beauty.'

I'm very good in terms of judging people by the people they are and not how they look. I look at women completely and that's more important to me than pure beauty, as it is for most people who are nice people.

But you're completely missing my point.

And you're kidding yourself if you don't judge or look at women based on looks. Is it shallow? No. Superficial? No. It's basic human instinct ffs and that's why you're kidding yourself. I'm NOT saying judging someone solely based on looks that's disgusting I agree, THAT is superficial and shallow. But guys constantly judge based on looks and women do the same thing. AND THEN they get to know the other person.

Stop misinterpreting what I'm saying.

You're going to form a complete and absolute opinion on a complex human being based on nothing more than a physical attribute they had no choice about? How is that any different from racism?

If you can't correctly interpret what I'm saying, then there is no point to conversing with you.

So you're fine with 12 year olds watching videos that refer to women as "sl**s and bi****s"?

I will have to reiterate yet again that the bigger problem here is parenting and not the porn itself.
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Post by VivaStPauli Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:37 pm

@Se7en - let the kid fap all he/she wants. My point is that I'd probably have a parental lock on teh interwebs until the kid is like 15 anyway, and so, for the most part you'll be able to limit the kid's access to porn. Sure, they'll still be able to gain access to some porn, but it'll be awkward, and it'll be annoying.
And once they hit 15 or 16 you remove the training wheels and let them run wild on youporn and redtube. Why not, tbh?

I had to secretly record midnight-broadcasts of softcore erotica on cable on VHS cassettes when I was a teen, frankly, the possibility of your porn cutting away to a commercial for heart disease medicine probably damaged me more, than any candle wax dripping fetish orgy would have been able to.

Porn doesn't hurt your kid, porn without context does. Once you told your son to always respect the ladies, and that sex carries responsibilities and risks, there isn't much that porn can do to him.
I'm obviously less attuned to the lessons girls might get from their parents, since I possess a mighty germanic wonder hammer of a prong.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:12 pm

ACMRox wrote:So you're fine with 12 year olds watching videos that refer to women as "sl**s and bi****s"?

You don't think this has any negative impact at all?
Well of course I don't like it, but 12 years olds see that in pop music videos, tv shows, etc, as it is. Porn is not going to make a 12 year old into a misogynist.
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Post by Swanhends Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:15 pm

ACMRox wrote:If you still don't see the problem, I really don't know what to say.

You're going to form a complete and absolute opinion on a complex human being based on nothing more than a physical attribute they had no choice about? How is that any different from racism?

Absolutely disgusting...

Men and women are both complex and dignified creatures that deserve to be looked at completely, not purely based on subjective, external, 'beauty.'

Forming first impressions is human nature. Arguing otherwise is beyond naive.

At the same time, no one in this thread claimed that a first impression was a "complete and absolute opinion" - That claim was yours. So you are wrong on both accounts.

Also I laughed out loud at "men and women are dignified creatures"

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Post by Cruijf Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:44 pm

Swanhends wrote:
Also I laughed out loud at "men and women are dignified creatures"

Either elaborate or get out of this thread, because a serious discussion like this has no need of more trolls.
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Post by Cruijf Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:47 pm

CBarca wrote:
And you're kidding yourself if you don't judge or look at women based on looks. Is it shallow? No. Superficial? No. It's basic human instinct ffs and that's why you're kidding yourself. I'm NOT saying judging someone solely based on looks that's disgusting I agree, THAT is superficial and shallow. But guys constantly judge based on looks and women do the same thing. AND THEN they get to know the other person.

Stop misinterpreting what I'm saying.

It is human instinct, but so is taking revenge on someone for overstepping their bounds by brutally murdering them. Doesn't mean that's good for you. As civilized creatures, it's our responsibility to overcome these instincts and avoid discrimination.



I will have to reiterate yet again that the bigger problem here is parenting and not the porn itself.

But you acknowledge porn is a problem.

And as we've established already in this thread, porn is far too easily accessible for anyone to fully eliminate it, which means regardless of parenting, 12 year olds will get a hold of porn, and it will influence them.


Last edited by ACMRox on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cruijf Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Well of course I don't like it, but 12 years olds see that in pop music videos, tv shows, etc, as it is. Porn is not going to make a 12 year old into a misogynist.

A Taylor Swift song and porn are hardly the same. While the former no doubt is a bad influence, the latter is ten times and dangerous and a much bigger problem.

Which is why it's ironic that you won't find anyone here praising Taylor Swift songs, but you'll find people claiming porn is good for you...
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Post by CBarca Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:15 pm

ACMRox wrote:
CBarca wrote:
And you're kidding yourself if you don't judge or look at women based on looks. Is it shallow? No. Superficial? No. It's basic human instinct ffs and that's why you're kidding yourself. I'm NOT saying judging someone solely based on looks that's disgusting I agree, THAT is superficial and shallow. But guys constantly judge based on looks and women do the same thing. AND THEN they get to know the other person.

Stop misinterpreting what I'm saying.

It is human instinct, but so is taking revenge on someone for overstepping their bounds by brutally murdering them. Doesn't mean that's good for you. As civilized creatures, it's our responsibility to overcome these instincts and avoid discrimination.



I will have to reiterate yet again that the bigger problem here is parenting and not the porn itself.

But you acknowledge porn is a problem.

And as we've established already in this thread, porn is far too easily accessible for anyone to fully eliminate it, which means regardless of parenting, 12 year olds will get a hold of porn, and it will influence them.

Murdering someone for overstepping boundary is not human instinct. What are you talking about?

The second part is a bold statement really, but you're not looking at the whole picture again.

These kids...it's not the porn that's the problem, it's the parents. Even if the parents fail to keep porn out of their children's hands until they are old enough for it...what the hell is the kid going to do? He's going to watch the porn and jack off. Where does the evil of porn come in?

Just because a bad kid is doing all of these bad things and he watches porn doesn't make the porn bad. In all likelihood he has had a bad upbringing with some irresponsible parents.

I want you to repeat this in your head a bunch of times- correlation does not equal causation. Looking at porn as the evil and ignoring all the other bigger, larger factors at play is irresponsible in itself.
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Post by Cruijf Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:20 pm

I'm not even gonna quote you Cbarca, because this is really all I have to say.

There is no human being on this planet that can have a message shoved down his throat day after day without him adopting at least some of it.

And in porn, the message is very simple: Sex does not require emotional attachment, nor does it require respect of the other person. Insult them and degrade them as much as you want, they're only playthings in the pursuit of your own pleasure anyway.

And every 12 year old that watches porn basically every day is going to adopt, subconsciously or otherwise, at least some of this message.
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Post by Swanhends Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:57 pm

ACMRox wrote:I'm not even gonna quote you Cbarca, because this is really all I have to say.

There is no human being on this planet that can have a message shoved down his throat day after day without him adopting at least some of it.

Message shoved down his throat?

So that's what it is called when a person makes a conscious decision to engage in a particular activity of their own free will?
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Post by RedOranje Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:06 pm

ACMRox wrote:I'm not even gonna quote you Cbarca, because this is really all I have to say.

There is no human being on this planet that can have a message shoved down his throat day after day without him adopting at least some of it.

And in porn, the message is very simple: Sex does not require emotional attachment, nor does it require respect of the other person. Insult them and degrade them as much as you want, they're only playthings in the pursuit of your own pleasure anyway.

And every 12 year old that watches porn basically every day is going to adopt, subconsciously or otherwise, at least some of this message.

Are we still talking about pornography or have we moved onto other ancient institutions that have a history of dehumanizing women and altering the way children perceive the world?
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Post by Kaladin Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:29 pm

Porn is Porn, watch it, fap, Finish
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Post by Eman Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:30 pm

I have never had porn shoved down my throat. Listening to music about partying and clubbing and having unemotional sex with people played on the radio and TV is, however, shoved down my throat. Again, all of western culture objectifies sex; porn isn't the cause of this stuff.
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Post by Cruijf Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:38 pm

Eman wrote:Again, all of western culture objectifies sex; porn isn't the cause of this stuff.

But it sure helps to promote that message. Especially considering <95% of males watch porn, a percentage that music pertaining to clubbing and unemotional sex can hardly compete with.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:01 pm

ACMRox wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Well of course I don't like it, but 12 years olds see that in pop music videos, tv shows, etc, as it is. Porn is not going to make a 12 year old into a misogynist.

A Taylor Swift song and porn are hardly the same. While the former no doubt is a bad influence, the latter is ten times and dangerous and a much bigger problem.

Which is why it's ironic that you won't find anyone here praising Taylor Swift songs, but you'll find people claiming porn is good for you...

That's because it is bro. I just read an article claiming that an orgasm a day could expand your life by up to 10 years. I might have to start looking at more porn hmm
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:02 pm

ACMRox wrote:
Eman wrote:Again, all of western culture objectifies sex; porn isn't the cause of this stuff.

But it sure helps to promote that message. Especially considering <95% of males watch porn, a percentage that music pertaining to clubbing and unemotional sex can hardly compete with.
And girls don't get off porn too? Neutral
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