Something isn't Right

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Art Morte
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:44 pm

In 2009-10 season, we finished on 63 points. 7 points behind 4th placed spurs

Since then, we've spent nearly 4 times more money than them and gone further behind.

In that time period we've have 4 different managers, 4 different strategies, 4 different type of signings...and yet nothing has changed it.

The money has been managed WOEFULLY since 2008 summer, even before FSG take-over, and no matter who the manager or out scouts are, we seem to be terribly wasteful.

The mentality os the squad has gotten weaker and weaker, and it's no wonder that whenever we concede a first goal, we immediately go on and concede another.

This utterly crap buy young strategy doesn't help either, as young players don't have the nerve and voice.

BR mentioned that our squad is TOO QUITE. not enough characters there.

We need to re-think our structure, we need footballing people to advise inexperienced owners and inexperienced manager. We have NONE at the club.

I am scared we may head to Aston Villa route. The few senior players we have may leave after another season of mediocrity, Gerrard and Carra retiring, we are left with bunch of young players who can't handle the pressure of delivering EVERYWEEK. Samething that's happening to Villa.

Everyone at the club has been responsible for this in the last 4 years....All the managers, players, owners, and executives.

I don't know how we can stop the rot and CURSE at the club that has been going on for some time...

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Post by McAgger Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:56 pm

No shite Sherlock
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Post by DeletedUser#1 Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:03 pm

Making this quote from RAWK:

Our squad is *bleep* filled to the brim with players who are used to losing 1 game out of every 3/4. Not having a go at them for that. Plenty of them are good players, but the make-up of it is all wrong whatever Ian Ayre might say.

I'm not just talking Downing or Allen here either. It's not just the whipping boys. Glen Johnson and Lucas are, at their best, amongst the best in the league in their positions. Apart from when Johnson was 19, neither has spent more than half a season at a club that regularly picks up 10-12 points out of every 15 available. They're two of our best players when they're at it.

There's a *bleep* vaccum when it comes to character, experience and strength (physical and mental) in our squad. We're filled with players who would be very good players in a very good team, but too few of the major characters that makes a really good team.

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Post by Onyx Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:12 pm

Maybe Liverpool just need to get some elite players? The only current elite player is Suarez. Also British players need to be avoided.

Teams like Man City, Man Utd, have more than 1 elite player. Chelsea too. Spurs have a lot of quality players too. In order to get back into the top 4, that's what's needed imo.

And I don't think I need to watch every minute of Liverpool's games to know whether Liverpool need elite players or not.

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Post by Art Morte Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:13 pm

I may start sounding like a broken record, but under Dalglish things were pretty fine. While last season was disappointing in the league, we reached two cup finals and won the other. Also his signings are starting to produce with Henderson having been a fine midfielder this season and Downing putting in some decent and consistent performances since November. And you all know that I like Carroll, even though panic-buying him was never a clever thing to do.

Rodgers has obviously gotten to buy just the players he has wanted out of those who have been available and no one else but him should be credited or blamed for it.

But since this thread was started after tonight's game, I'll say that Zenit away was always going to be difficult. Could still progress from the tie. If we pick up a good number of wins - something like eight - from our last 12 league games we can still believe that next season will be better. But to do that we need to step up our game.
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Post by Red Alert Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:05 am

The Aston Villa route. lol. What a stupid thread.
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Post by Fahim89 Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:49 am

LAMBERT ! ! ! ! LAMBERT ! ! ! !

O HOW HE CURSED US ! ! FOR NOT TAKING HIM! !

LAMBERT ! ! ! LAMBERT ! ! !

Chaka

Something isn't Right Paul-lambert-006
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Post by donttreadonred Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:15 pm

Under Dalglish things were fine? Really?

From a tactical perspective we seemed to blow with the wind. One week we would be loosely set up in a 4-1-4-1, then a 4-2-3-1, and the next week a traditional 4-4-2. It often seemed the formation/approach was geared purely towards getting the required players on the pitch as opposed to exposing the weaknesses of the opposition. We never looked to be a well drilled, or disciplined, team. At times, it seems they were told to "go out and win it for The Kop," more than they were told how to achieve that goal. Granted, this worked for a little while. In 2011-12, Dalglish's first half of the season went well, putting us well in the running for a 4-6 finish.
First Half
W:9 D:7 L:3
34 pts from 57
The problems came in the second half of the season. Perhaps this period has already become a bit idealized for some people. If so let me remind you of a loss to Bolton, a loss to Sunderland, throwing away a 2-goal lead against QPR, a loss to Wigan, two losses to Fulham, and barely picking up a much needed, very nervy, very late win against the mighty (relegated) Blackburn Rovers. The stats breakdown like this:
Second Half
W:5 D:3 L:11
18 pts from 57

That is horrid form... Extend that trend to a full season and that has us picking up 36 points. Everything was not fine. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Were were not mentally tough. Not by any recognized definition of the term. It's true we were giving the large teams a run in every single game, and we had experienced players that could produce a moment of brilliance to change the match. However, we also dropped points LOST to every relegated team.

You all know that I didn't want Dalglish sacked. I wanted him to get another year, if only for the sake of stability. Similarly, I don't mean to speak ill of such a legend. However, the simple facts are that the club took a sharp downturn in the second half of the season. We didn't just not progress, we may have taken several steps backward. Now, I'm not blaming the problems all on Dalglish. I don't think he is the cause. (That honor goes to the entire management staff and their interaction/non-interaction with Rafa, as well as the guiding hand of the one-true-Hodgson.) However, Dalglish didn't acheive the immediate upturn he was brought in to accomplish.

Now, does any of that change the fact that we have serious problems? No, of course not. However, it does go to show that these aren't new issues. These are issues that have been percolating under the surface, masked by spot fixes and experience. Throw in a new manager, system, and personnel, and it suddenly becomes a more immediately relevant issue. We do need more experienced heads on pitch and more experienced heads in the bootroom. Now, that could mean changes to personnel or the maturing of what we have.

My preference (as I'm sure you all know by now), at least regarding the bootroom, is that the personnel mature rather than be replaced. This club hasn't had a steady, on-pitch identity since Rafa was manager. In my opinion, we cannot continue to maintain this revolving door if we wish to avoid the Aston Villa-esque fall from relevance. To fail to provide some sense of continuity will only ensure that we actively chase off our top-quality players and continue to drop toward the bottom of the league.

As for players, we certainly need to make additions. However, we need to be mindful of what type of players we bring in. We cannot simply look at stats and skill. We have to look at mentality and personality as well. I actually have faith in this management staff to learn from mistakes made in previous windows. It's true that they've shown signs of their inexperience, but we always knew that would happen. What is encouraging is that they've made adjustments and not repeated similar mistakes.

To summarize: of course there are things that are wrong. If you look at the comments from the manager, players and staff, they know it. We're not blindly foraging ahead without identifying the issues. The problem is that we cannot afford (financially or tactically) to overhaul the squad in the same amount of time as say a Manchester City, Malage or PSG. We are also now have the challenge of being labeled an under-achiever and a somewhat unstable club. In my opinion, more turnover is not the answer right now.
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Post by Art Morte Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:38 pm

donttreadonred wrote:Under Dalglish things were fine? Really?

Yeah, I think that under Dalglish things were pretty fine.
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Post by donttreadonred Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:58 pm

Art Morte wrote:
donttreadonred wrote:Under Dalglish things were fine? Really?

Yeah, I think that under Dalglish things were pretty fine.
W:5 D:3 L:11 after week 19 last season... 18 points from 57... hmm

That's a strange definition of fine for someone who seems to argue we should judge Rodgers based on his immediate production. Seriously? That would put us on course for 36 points in a season... 36... That's one less than QPR got last season and 3 less than Blackpool and Birmingham City got the year before.

Then again, it's your opinion, and you're welcome to it.

I didn't want him gone, either. However, my point is that the stats/record, as well as the on-field performances, suggested that we had begun a significant downward turn. Given that, it's not hard to understand why he was moved on.
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Post by Helmer Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:16 am

I guess many people already follow the following LFC fan website, just posting here; because I was really pleased to read it. After the bad last week for us, something good to read.
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/02/talking-finances-part-1-examining-liverpool-fcs-numbers-off-the-pitch/

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