Should penalties be scrapped?

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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:00 pm

tonger wrote:the only problem i have with it review thing is, if u r allowed to JUST review penalty related calls, ya ok, but then red card potential situations will be reviewed and then people will want yellow card or other important decisions reviewed. so MAYBE when people talk abt disturbing the flow of the game, thats what they are worried about.

but for me if we can stick to just penalty decision/goal no-goal decisions, im ok with video/review technology.

Yeah people are worried that if replay exists, then all of a sudden everything is going to be reviewed non stop which doesn't have to be the case at all

I think a page could be taken from the NFL, where the games rules remain as it is, but each manager is given two challenges. At any point of the game, the managers can decide if they feel there was a call by the refs that was unfavorable towards their team, even if its something as minor as an offsides call, or something more major like a ball that crossed the goal line, a red card that was given when there was no contact, a handball when there was or wasnt one, and so on, the manager can challenge it. But they only have 2. If they use them both then tough luck you have to rely on the refs like we already do. This way they won't go using them just to disrupt the games flow. And any time that is taken up by the refs reviewing the play is added on to stoppage time, and the challenges cannot be used in stoppage time (to avoid the other team using a challenge just to time waste in extra time over a minor nothing call for example) I really don't think it would interupt the flow of the game any more than a player faking an injury already does. And if players are aware that they can be caught faking, maybe they would be less likely to do it in the first place.

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Post by Harmonica Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:12 pm

No.

Player who was fouled should take it is a goodish idea, but what when that player is injured, it's a handball etc, or when the fouled player isn't the one with the ball?
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Post by Zealous Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:51 pm

I think a lot of problems decrease if Referees change what constitutes a penalty. Fouls are given for the slightest touch nowadays and that encourages negative play.

Slide tackles are dangerous and should be punished accordingly if they aren't clean but things like body checks (within the realm of reason) shouldn't be fouls.
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Post by VivaStPauli Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Zealous wrote:I think a lot of problems decrease if Referees change what constitutes a penalty. Fouls are given for the slightest touch nowadays and that encourages negative play.

Slide tackles are dangerous and should be punished accordingly if they aren't clean but things like body checks (within the realm of reason) shouldn't be fouls.

A thousand times this. Spanish-style refereeing shouldn't even be a thing, it's incredibly annoying.
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Post by mag Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:13 pm

Hello everyone, I am a long time reader, but obviously not a frequent poster :-p.

Anyway, I've always had this idea about how to fix the refereeing issue, which I'd like to share it here with you guys.

First and foremost, UEFA doesn't mind adding more referees. In fact, they added 2 referees (to the original four) behind the goals. This is good, because at least we know they (UEFA) are willing to pay and hire more referees. Some leagues (like Serie A) have already done so.

However, adding the two referees behind the goals haven't fixed anything. In fact, they made matters worse since sometimes they reverse correct decisions or make bad ones of their own.

So, what am I suggesting here?

1- Those two referees should be put in a room in the stadium where each has a TV screen or computer monitor in front of him/her.
2- Their focus is to catch everything that's happening in the penalty area (because that's what matters most).
3- The two referees are in contact with the main referee at all times.

How do they work?

It's pretty simple. There are a lot of cameras in the stadium. All shooting the game from different angles.

Give the two referees access to those cameras. They could switch to any camera in the stadium on the fly while the game is going. One referee has access to the cameras on the TV side. The other has access to the cameras facing the TV side ("reverse angle" side). This way you'd have the two referees watching the game from both ends of the field.

They have two control buttons. Actually, they have a knob. If they turn the knob left, it rewinds. If they turn it right, they forward. And the speed of rewinding, and/or forwarding depends on how much they turn the knob to the respective side. It's like they have a DVR, but with much much more control rewinding and forwarding (speed wise) and much more precision (frame wise -- so they could get down to the moment they want, and frame they want). It's like FIFA's instant replay but in real life.

So, let's suppose a player falls after a tackle in the penalty box. The two referees don't have to wait for the player to fall. Instead they could immediately rewind to the moment that matters the most, the tackle, and look for any contact by the defender and/or if the defender got the ball. They make their decision in less than 5 seconds, inform the main referee of their decision, and done!

No coach challenge needed, no delay (barely anything) and most importantly no commercials. The game is being reviewed on the fly. If the two referees inform the main referee that there's no foul on the play, then the game keeps flowing.

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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:54 pm

StrugaRock wrote:OK, let me explain it in this kind of twisted way:

The term Vampire, a vicious blood-sucking demon, that burns when on direct contact with the sun. Then someone thought about modernizing "the vampire" and turn it to a sparkling doll.

About the crowding, it's the ref's fault, just start booking someone and then you'll see if they will crowd the ref.

Modernization will kill football, trust me on that.

You have told me nothing. Your just against it for the sake of it.

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Post by rwo power Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:57 pm

@mag
Good plan. I mean, even Sumo has video refs additional to the ones right on the scene, so why not football, too.

BTW, the topic is hot in the BL right now, too. Lucien Favre, whose team Borussia Mönchengladbach got a penalty against them due to a pretty obvious dive, just called out for the refs to be a bit more stricter about what is a foul. He said refs should only give a pen if they are absolutely sure about it and not if they just suspect there was a foul. And Max Eberl demands that the refs should ask the attacker whether it really was a foul if the defender protests and if the TV pic later show that he lied, he could be suspended due to false testimony.

Source: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/581274/artikel_favre-kritisiert_zu-viele-elfmeterpfiffe.html


Last edited by rwo power on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I hate typos)
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Post by The Franchise Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Error wrote:Awarding a goal for a scoring chance is a horrible idea.

Let's take a corner situation. Player kicks the ball in the box and player from same team heads it towards goal. There is also a defender standing on goal line next to a post (likely usually). The ball hits accidentally the defender's arm, then what? The team with corner should be awarded a goal? Even if he didn't purposely like Suarez? Or Perhaps he did it on purpose? Problem with awarding instant goal is that you cannot always know when the blocking is done deliberately and would cause even more chaos for referees and spectators.

I'm with Struga with replays during game. It will only unnecessary hinder the gameplay. How many would complain then that there has been X amount of replays but ref didn't award enough injury time? Many already complains now that ref didn't award enough time from subs and now you want them also to add replay time on top of it? And stopping clock every time where there is a replay will not work well because you would have to do that for every break then.

The goal line technology would be quite easy to implement and only one I support, since it can done with a sensors that register if it's a goal or not.

But the easiest way to solve this whole problem would be to ban all divers after match from video replays, just like do in ice hockey with dangerous and illegal tackles or acts. I doubt Dive Maria, Suarez, Dani Dives, Penaldo, Biscuit etc. would dare to dive anymore when jury gives them 5 match ban for diving. Of course solving all dive problems wouldn't be so easy and true dive master would still survive. But let's be honest, majority of dives are pretty easy to notice from replay.

If you read properly, you would know noone said give a goal for a goalscoring opportunity.
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Post by StrugaRock Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:10 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:
Zealous wrote:I think a lot of problems decrease if Referees change what constitutes a penalty. Fouls are given for the slightest touch nowadays and that encourages negative play.

Slide tackles are dangerous and should be punished accordingly if they aren't clean but things like body checks (within the realm of reason) shouldn't be fouls.

A thousand times this. Spanish-style refereeing shouldn't even be a thing, it's incredibly annoying.

Ref's in Spain are annoying as hell, an unintentional handball is directly given a yellow card, also the slightest contact is given a foul, it annoys me as they are trying to make football a non-contact sport.
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Post by StrugaRock Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:13 pm

All in all, penalties should stay, no matter what. Dives and similar things should be investigated after the match and ban divers for a game or two, and then let's see if that player would want to dive again.

Of course if a team plays in a final and a player would sacrifice him self(and I'm sure of it), he would dive just to win his team a penalty.

Also the thing with "the guy who is fouled should shoot the penalty" seems fair to me.
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Post by stevieg8 Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:21 pm

I'd love to see some info on ratio of pens/goal and of controversial pens/game. I'm not so certain this is as big an epidemic as OP is making it out to be.

I'd be all in favor of the replay ideas - Mag's especially has proven successful in limited use in the NFL and MLB. I'd also support other minor changes if they seemed to be effective. But based on my own subjective observation, it doesn't seem that penalties occur often enough to warrant such a wholesale change of the rules.
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